New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Angel Ariel]

And while I absolutely agree that accommodations should be made, it was really hard not to feel a bit judgmental as several fairly large groups of giggling adolescents literally ran past us in the LL queue for Space Mountain.

I know you don't mean it this way, so please don't take this personally - it's more of an overall societal commentary

Trust me, those who have disabilities and their caregivers are well aware of how we are judged. Especially those whose disabilities are not easily identifiable in a quick glance. I've been approached by random people telling me not to give DD certain accommodations because she'll never learn if we keep doing that. They don't know us, they don't know her - but they are fine passing judgment.

this is our every day experience. We've thankfully managed to avoid experiencing it at Disney (or I'm just too immersed in DD's enjoyment to notice), but it's hardly something uncommon. Sad? Yep. Frustrating? Uh huh. Unusual? Nope.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I will agree with the idea that many people that legitimately qualify for DAS should be allowed certain accommodations/advantages due to their conditions. I personally feel like they currently go to far because they are disadvantaging the non-DAS users too much. There is a balance of how much of an advantage DAS is given to park ride capacity and everyone's opinion on that balance will be different.

Side note: There are plenty of people/groups that are not able to stay at the park all day and move slower than other guests that do NOT qualify for DAS (think all mobility challenged users, those with young children, ect.) that do not get any sort of advantage.

This brings up a question that is of course contentious, but what is the limit for disability accommodations and are there cases or limits where a theme park just isn't appropriate for some people?

Someone said that a theme park is, by definition, a place where you will be waiting in line for much of the time. When should someone say, this isn't a place for me?

There have been lawsuits asking for accommodation above and beyond. Arguments that autistic kids should be able to do what they want whenever they want with no wait times ever. Walking by Peter Pan and the kid wants to do it right now? Walk on in. Kid wants to ride Pooh for an hour without getting off? That must be allowed. If that is what is necessary for that kid to experience Disney on their terms, is that reasonable?

 

[the_rich]

This brings up a question that is of course contentious, but what is the limit for disability accommodations and are there cases or limits where a theme park just isn't appropriate for some people?

Someone said that a theme park is, by definition, a place where you will be waiting in line for much of the time. When should someone say, this isn't a place for me?

There have been lawsuits asking for accommodation above and beyond. Arguments that autistic kids should be able to do what they want whenever they want with no wait times ever. Walking by Peter Pan and the kid wants to do it right now? Walk on in. Kid wants to ride Pooh for an hour without getting off? That must be allowed. If that is what is necessary for that kid to experience Disney on their terms, is that reasonable?

No, that isn't reasonable. I want people to be able to experience the parks but there has to be limits.

 

[flynnibus]

So now looking at it a day after..

My takeaways

1) Disney has "redefined" DAS to really just be about the 'developmental disabilities'. I personally find this new definition extremely confusing from a naming and information perspective... and even more ironic given the near flip this is from the real origins of DAS and GAC. But maybe they want to keep it this way to reduce the risk of losing any ground they already had with their prior court cases.

2) The requirement to 'pre-register' and not have "day of" access if true is going to be one of Disney's biggest legal issues. They are going to have to have a way to accommodate people enrolling if they allow same day tickets or even short term notice. I think Disney should have instead taken an angle of ENCOURAGING advance registration by making same day undesirable... like promising reservations vs first-come, first serve waiting. But if they get in a situation where it takes 5hrs of waiting to get enrolled... they are going to have issues. This is an area that will really be up to interpretation, but from a 'requirement' standpoint it's very prickley for Disney.

3) The return to queue model sounds very interesting... on face value is still far too attractive to people and will invite mis-use. How long until we get to where 'dad' is left to stand in line while mom and the kids just hang out elsewhere just to return when the wait is nearly over? Or people figure out how you can return to line at any time later (like an old FP).. etc. It's a simple concept, but given the attractiveness of the benefit, seems those looking to 'optimize' without consideration for others will readily abuse it. We really have to see how Disney goes to implement this to curb mis-use.

4) The return to queue model sounds great, but operationally it sounds absolutely nuts. I can't wait to see how Disney will tackle this over it's diverse layout.

Think about it.. a common line is about 1hr worth of guests. A typical attraction is about 1000-1200 guests an hour. If just 1 in 10 people use this... that's 100-120 people an hour trying to get in and out of line. Or upwards of one every 30 seconds! Even if you said 1 in 100, that's still one every 5 minutes. If you had to escort someone to a spot in the queue, you'd be running non-stop. Queues are huge! And just climbing over rails, etc isn't practice for most guests... so you gotta send people through fixed points or walking up and down the line.

And how to deal with where people 'go back' to. Maybe you just say you meet at a spot like merge or something... but think of the number of people that would be to be waiting in some sort of designated spot... you just don't have space for holding a ton of people.

And unless you get a CM to come to you, there is no way to mark in the line where you came from. No way to leave a breadcrumb, etc. So what will they do, allow you to leave, and then return to the merge point 'no sooner than XYZ' with some estimates? I dunno... but I think it will be fascinating to see what approach Disney takes here.

It's a difficult problem to solve at scale and with the physical constraints they have around the park.

 

[Ayla]

This brings up a question that is of course contentious, but what is the limit for disability accommodations and are there cases or limits where a theme park just isn't appropriate for some people?

Someone said that a theme park is, by definition, a place where you will be waiting in line for much of the time. When should someone say, this isn't a place for me?

There have been lawsuits asking for accommodation above and beyond. Arguments that autistic kids should be able to do what they want whenever they want with no wait times ever. Walking by Peter Pan and the kid wants to do it right now? Walk on in. Kid wants to ride Pooh for an hour without getting off? That must be allowed. If that is what is necessary for that kid to experience Disney on their terms, is that reasonable?

Careful, I posted something similar yesterday and was skewered. (Which didn't bother me, just an FYI for you!)

 

[Brian]

This brings up a question that is of course contentious, but what is the limit for disability accommodations and are there cases or limits where a theme park just isn't appropriate for some people?

Someone said that a theme park is, by definition, a place where you will be waiting in line for much of the time. When should someone say, this isn't a place for me?

It's not for the theme park operator nor random people on the internet to decide what is appropriate for a child with developmental disabilities. It's the parents, and in cases where their input is possible to procure, the child. Everyone should have the chance to have a good time, and that's what the ADA ensures.

The ADA also ensures that the same mentality can't be used as a cop out by, for example, grocery store owners, to make their stores inaccessible to wheelchairs. Without the ADA, the excuse "the store isn't a suitable environment for customers in wheelchairs because the aisles are too narrow, nothing we can do, sorry" would be perfectly fine. Thanks to the ADA, they have to make the store wheelchair accessible. Many stores have also sought to be inclusive of customers with developmental disabilities by having "sensory friendly" hours in the mornings or evenings where the lights are adjusted and the music turned down/off.

At the end of the day, is Disney an "appropriate" place for an autistic child? Maybe, maybe not. That's not our decision to make, nor is it Disney's. Disney's role is to make their experience accessible to these guests, not make judgements about what they can or cannot handle or what would be appropriate for them.

There have been lawsuits asking for accommodation above and beyond. Arguments that autistic kids should be able to do what they want whenever they want with no wait times ever. Walking by Peter Pan and the kid wants to do it right now? Walk on in. Kid wants to ride Pooh for an hour without getting off? That must be allowed. If that is what is necessary for that kid to experience Disney on their terms, is that reasonable?

The ADA does not contemplate "above and beyond" accommodations, and lawsuits seeking them have routinely failed. Heck, even cases where the plaintiff was asking for quite reasonable accommodations have failed. Nobody is expecting for the guest to be able to access an attraction instantly, like you describe, nor would it be reasonable for any guest to expect that of Disney.

If I had a special needs child who could not handle a wait elsewhere for Peter Pan like you described, even if it meant seeing a show, eating lunch, or whatever it may be, I personally would not bring them. But that's my judgement to make as the parent.

 

[flynnibus]

With everything that's been announced/discussed I suppose my question would be: if we have individuals in our party with lung transplants, fibrosis and who are immunodeficient (thus, unable to go very far for very long), would they now be excluded from DAS and told to simply buy/bring a wheelchair? They don't have any sort of neurological disorder but given their conditions, experiencing the parks can be a little bit rough.

From what's on the web... that seems to be the case now. Maybe return to queue will apply.... no one seems to know yet.

They are encouraging you to use other aids, not DAS, to deal with endurance issues.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Nobody is expecting for the guest to be able to access an attraction instantly, like you describe, nor would it be reasonable for any guest to expect that of Disney.

Thank you.

It's so tiring when discussion of accommodations in general always jumps to the extreme examples.

 

[flynnibus]

LOOKS LIKE 2023 WAS MY KAST DISNEY VACATION.....NO DAS THEN DISNEY REDUCE PRICE OF ADMISSION TO DISABLED guests.

Welcome to the forums for your first post

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Walking by Peter Pan and the kid wants to do it right now? Walk on in. Kid wants to ride Pooh for an hour without getting off? That must be allowed.

That is not what is permitted or what anyone is asking for in this thread.

 

[jaklgreen]

You may want to inform Disney. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/#drawer-card-mk

You just go up the cast member at the ride and they set it up. It's in their system so I think that they know about is. And what you linked is for Genie+, not DAS.

 

[DryerLintFan]

There were lawsuits last time they changed it but the courts sided with Disney on every one them because they had the actual proof of abuse. I am sure it will be the same this time so no, they shouldn't have left it alone.

What they should do is make sure they have reasonable accommodations on a case-by-case basis so that no one who actually needs it is left out. People are currently panicking and assuming that Disney isn't going to help certain groups with no proof that is going to happen. I get it because Disney has not been clear yet but they might be by design so people can't game the system.

I'd be willing to bet nearly all the examples’ people have brought up will be approved or that changes will be made so they can be approved. They aren't interested in stopping those that need help, they do want to stop the MASSIVE abuse.

To be honest the old wording was very vague and unclear, too. What we knew would and wouldn’t get Approved was mostly from word of mouth and forum posts like here. The website said that if you had a need of it, call. But there was never any list anywhere official of what qualified and what didn’t.

So Disney saying only developmental disabilities (like autism) is actually more specific than they’ve been in the past. Which is why i think it’s setting people on edge. Note it begs the question if non autism disabilities will be approved, and we won’t know until people start posting their experiences after the new system kicks in

 

[Brian]

I don't think you quite understand what you're talking about. There is no extra DAS or Genie+ line at People mover. It is all the same line.

There is no Genie+ at PeopleMover, but there is DAS access. The CM at the turnstile has an iPhone capable of reading DAS entitlements and they get let in right there.

 

[pigglewiggle]

Lung transplants ? Can’t breathe?

Who cares.

Get in line until they almost collapse. Then get out of line and rest. Rinse and repeat.

Have a magical day !

Perhaps you should wait on causing yourself all this trauma until you've actually spoken to Disney or attempted the new process to see if indeed you are right and no one but those with developmental disorders will be allowed to use DAS.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

That is not what is permitted or what anyone is asking for in this thread.

Lawsuits have been filed asking for unlimited front of line access.

While they lost, it's a fact that some people do have unrealistic expectations and in some cases, should consider if visiting a theme park is appropriate.

I've said several times that I'm absolutely in favour of disability accommodations, but it's a complex issue and a theme park just isn't realistically going to be for everyone.

 

[Splash4eva]

Exactly! Like I said, this was one thing they should've left alone, all they did was make a huge headache and stress for their already underpaid CM's so the can profitize on G+.

Also, I keep hearing the word "abuse" but what is defined as "abuse?" Is it a case by case grey area where a CM without the need of a DAS tells other paying people that they abused the service? I just don't understand what behavior from a person with DAS would indicate abuse? Running? Drinking alcohol? Riding Space Mountain? How is this measured and who is the judge to place a lifetime ban for something so grey?

You did an interview you gave them a reason and they said yea or nay… What is changing now. They still are not requiring any docs. So people can still say whatever they want to say to get approved if they were “abusing” or “lying” and if they limit legit people all that does is screw the guest over. Anyone who thinks this is not backed bc of a money grab imo is fooling themselves. If someone lied before. Do you really think they will not lie again?!? Noone can be that naive. And im sure it will not take too long for “leaks” to happen on how they got DAS under the new system

 

[flynnibus]

I actually did have to deal with a wheelchair on my last trip when a family member injured her foot. No, it's not fun pushing a wheelchair but it's also not a legal requirement for Disney to accommodate every issue under the sun. "I can but it isn't fun" doesn't rise to the level of Disney having to accommodate a guest via DAS, in my opinion

But this is where the law and it's application applies. The law isn't that Disney only provide one form that a customer MUST accept - It's the inverse, the company must accept a reasonable accommodation.

Example: if I need to test and have supplies for my Type II diabetes, Disney can't say "we have first aid centers, you must use those - you can not bring in your own needles or food" if the guest is simply requesting to be able to carry their supplies in bring in necessary supplements.... because a court can rule the request is reasonable. Disney can provide an alternative, but they must consider reasonable accommodations.

Same way that Disney really can't dictate the only accommodation is use a wheelchair. For instance, they should allow sitting canes, or other mechanisms too.. and they do.

And "but isn't fun" isn't a binary thing... I think everyone can acknowledge without much fuss how much burden an ECV is, and Disney wouldn't have a ton of success arguing a customer should take on that burden and financial burden as a sole alternative if the guest really didn't need it. Reasonable alternatives will be easy to argue for.

More seating would be wonderful, though - both in and out of the queues. Maybe this DAS change will lead to that in a butterfly effect way.

It would be a dream... it's one of those things that you don't notice at first unless you're looking.. and this push for space and other reasons to eliminate them has been a real determinant to me visiting. You see sitting walls are much more common in a lot of the newer landscape designs.. but they only go so far.

Just look around the hub or most walkways... it feels like a death march when your back is failing you and you can't find anywhere to sit.

 

[Splash4eva]

yeah ive seen it too many times to count where groups of like 8+ people running by you again and again and again. I know a lot of people need DAS but because integrity is not a thing anymore with alot of people and they abuse it so Disney has to clamp down.

Do you really believe people who if true abused it now are gonna no longer find a way to abuse it again?!?

 

[Trauma]

Careful, I posted something similar yesterday and was skewered. (Which didn't bother me, just an FYI for you!)

The problem with the question is this.

Person A has a physical disability preventing them from waiting in line.

Person B has autism.

So if both conditions are 100% legitimate with documentation, what makes person B more important ?

So unless your suggesting that autistic people shouldn’t go to Disney, it seems like a troubling question to ask.

 

[Dranth]

It's not for the theme park operator nor random people on the internet to decide what is appropriate for a child with developmental disabilities.

In the general sense no, but we are talking about attraction access at a privately owned park.

In that case Disney is allowed to determine what they think is reasonable based on someone's needs and existing laws for their operations. The parents are irrelevant outside of providing the needed information. No where does it say they have to accept whatever a parent says. You child has to be front of line no matter what for the entire day? Disney does not have to accommodate that as it has crossed the line to unreasonable even though that may be a legit issue for some.