New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[UNCgolf]

You really believe that and think this is not another money grab

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

If they think they aren't selling enough G+ and/or ILL because of DAS abuse, that's still significantly altering the experience for regular guests even if it also hurts Disney's pocketbook. If someone wants to buy G+ or an ILL and can't because DAS abuse has eliminated their potential spot, then their experience has been negatively altered and Disney has lost money.

Disney doesn't have to be doing this out of the goodness of their heart for it to have an effect on the average guest experience.

 

[JohnD]

What will Disney recognize as a disability.

Contact them and find out. But I'm not aware of any rides requiring that you eat so I suspect diabetes is excluded. As for seizures, many rides have signs about effects. Still, all you can do is contact them. Don't ask us. How do we know?

 

[Vclguy90]

You really believe that and think this is not another money grab

This is the way.

 

[UNCgolf]

No they don't, contrary to popular belief Disney does not care about your experience just how it can get you to give them more green.

As I just said above, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

In fact, they go hand in hand. Whether you realize it or not this is actually in full agreement with what I said.

They aren't trying to force people with legitimate disabilities that prevent waiting in long lines to buy G+ or ILLs, because that would be an easy lawsuit that they would (and should) lose.

 

[Vclguy90]

As I just said above, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

In fact, they go hand in hand. Whether you realize it or not this is actually in full agreement with what I said.

They aren't trying to force people with legitimate disabilities that prevent waiting in long lines to buy G+ or ILLs, because that would be an easy lawsuit that they would (and should) lose.

I'm with you - but what is deemed a legitimate disability and not a G+ transferrable disability? A disability they choose not to recognize?

 

[Brian]

As I just said above, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

In fact, they go hand in hand. Whether you realize it or not this is actually in full agreement with what I said. They aren't trying to force people with legitimate disabilities that prevent waiting in long lines to buy G+ or ILLs, because that would be an easy lawsuit that they would lose.

As a lawyer yourself, do you think Disney would also be able to make the argument in a hypothetical lawsuit that being forced to allocate such high percentages of the LL capacity to DAS guests, thereby reducing the amount of Genie+ they can sell, presents of an undue hardship? At least as one factor in a broader argument?

Sure, they make incredible amounts of money per day, but economic factors are taken into consideration when determining undue hardship.

ETA: Trust me, I'm not losing any sleep for them over losing some Genie+ revenue. Just something I've been wondering about.

 

[DryerLintFan]

All the cheaters are going to do is figure out what “developmental disorders” are easiest to lie about and use that.

The cheaters are still going to lie.

This is going to lead to a large influx of “developmental disorders”.

What is Disney going to do then crack down on autism?

I don’t see how this road they have chosen to go down leads to a good place.

I think this too. But it will cut out the “casual” cheaters. Like the ones who just do it as a “Disney hack”

 

[MissingDisney]

What will Disney recognize as a disability.
My Grandaughter even with medication suffers from seizures is that considered a disability.
My Grandson has diabetes is that considered a disability.
So we're going to have some " Health Expert" on the phone make the call.
From the happiest place on earth to the greediest place on earth .

The question is ...does having sporadic seizures or diabetes interfere with waiting in a line. Some would argue no, some would argue yes.

This isn't a question of what is a disability overall. It's about the ability to wait. In a line. Often with assistance. For some that is impossible. For others, it's been a scam.

 

[Purduevian]

Line saturated? How so? All these DAS people have kept lightning lane available and not sold out so you can purchase it. What's the issue? Why does everyone think that the more DAS people means the standby will be longer? Sure, to a degree but no more than normal Fastpass protocols that have been in place since the 90's.

Ride capacity is fixed on a per ride basis. Every time an unaccounted for guest enters the LL, either the LL will grow or the standby line will pause for 1 extra person.

For instance lets take a haunted mansion and it's 2,600 person per hour capacity and Disney wants to give 300 of the spots to paying G+ customers and 2,300 spots to the standby line.

If no unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio is 3:23 (lets simplify to 1:8)
If 300 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (~1:4)
If 1000 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (~1:2)
Finally is 1,450 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (2:1)

The number of "unexpected" guests come from VIP, golden oak, club 33, rider swap, and DAS. If people have DAS and should not, that unexpected guest number goes up.

The standby line went from 89% of the ride capacity to 33% of the ride capacity and moves almost 3 times slower. What do you think happens to the standby line if 2,300 unexpected guests start showing up every hour...

I would once again like to say. I think DAS should allow those that need to it have it.

We've been counting the number of guests entering both the standby line and the Lightning Lane, per hour, at key attractions.

We've seen instances where the number of guests entering the LL is:

• Equal to or greater than the number entering the standby line
• More than half of the attraction's hourly capacity

For example, at Haunted Mansion we counted roughly 1,750 guests entering the LL line in one hour, and slightly less than that entering the standby line. None of them - zero - appeared to be VIP tours.

We also think that the number of G+ reservations sold by Disney for HM is not more than 300 per hour.

So there's ~1,450 guests that are somehow using the LL line. None of them were VIP tours.

Some of them could reasonably be rider swap. But HM isn't a roller coaster and there's no height limit, so I'd expect that rider swap number to be super low.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

When it comes to whether an accommodation is "reasonable" or not, that is up to the business owner, but they must be prepared to defend denying a requested accommodation should the requestor choose to file a lawsuit, as the burden of proof would be on the business owner to show why the requested accommodation would pose an undue hardship. The plaintiff (requestor) would also have to show that the defendant could have provided the accommodation, but chose not to. Source.

When it comes to whether or not visiting WDW is appropriate for a special needs child, the decision-maker there should always be the parent, not Disney, and certainly not random users on a forum such as this.

I agree that the decision maker should always be the parent. For example, a friend of the family has a compromised child who Does Not do well with other people. Not even ones she knows. Her Mom asked us if WDW would be okay to take her to. I said if she can stand large, loud crowds, loud music, loud shows, and constant stimulation, then Yes I felt she could go, but her Mom only knows what is best for her. After hearing that, she said that no way could she take her there. She is extremely upset by any of that and can be unmanageable. So, of course, the parent should be the one making that decision, IMO>

 

[Splash4eva]

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

If they think they aren't selling enough G+ and/or ILL because of DAS abuse, that's still significantly altering the experience for regular guests even if it also hurts Disney's pocketbook. If someone wants to buy G+ or an ILL and can't because DAS abuse has eliminated their potential spot, then their experience has been negatively altered and Disney has lost money.

Disney doesn't have to be doing this out of the goodness of their heart for it to have an effect on the average guest experience.

Maybe im wrong but if anyone thinks this “change” is going to make their experience exponentially better they are sadly sadly mistaken. Just my thoughts and opinion on the matter. Do you or anyone really think wait times are gonna be drastically reduced. And please dont give me the well 45 waits will now be moving as opposed to a standstill because in reality its still 45 minutes you waited…

 

[Touchdown]

Maybe im wrong but if anyone thinks this “change” is going to make their experience exponentially better they are sadly sadly mistaken. Just my thoughts and opinion on the matter. Do you or anyone really think wait times are gonna be drastically reduced. And please dont give me the well 45 waits will now be moving as opposed to a standstill because in reality its still 45 minutes you waited…

It did at Universal Studios, express waits on busy days went from 30-45 min to 15 min. Standby lost 30 min of their wait too. At Disney I expect that G+ waits will be drastically reduced, and standby will have more modest deductions. The latter will be tempered by how much more G+ slots Disney creates, if they determine they can make due to the lack of extra LL users.

 

[DryerLintFan]

It did at Universal Studios, express waits on busy days went from 30-45 min to 15 min. Standby lost 30 min of their wait too. At Disney I expect that G+ waits will be drastically reduced, and standby will have more modest deductions. The latter will be tempered by how much more G+ slots Disney creates, if they determine they can make due to the lack of extra LL users.

They might have to go full boar and ask for documentation in order to see those effects at Disney

 

[Vclguy90]

It did at Universal Studios, express waits on busy days went from 30-45 min to 15 min. Standby lost 30 min of their wait too. At Disney I expect that G+ waits will be drastically reduced, and standby will have more modest deductions. The latter will be tempered by how much more G+ slots Disney creates, if they determine they can make due to the lack of extra LL users.

I don't think there is enough data to back this up as of yet.

 

[UNCgolf]

As a lawyer yourself, do you think Disney would also be able to make the argument in a hypothetical lawsuit that being forced to allocate such high percentages of the LL capacity to DAS guests, thereby reducing the amount of Genie+ they can sell, presents of an undue hardship? At least as one factor in a broader argument?

Sure, they make incredible amounts of money per day, but economic factors are taken into consideration when determining undue hardship.

ETA: Trust me, I'm not losing any sleep for them over losing some Genie+ revenue. Just something I've been wondering about.

My practice is pretty far away from anything relating to the ADA, but I think they could definitely argue that the DAS abuse was fundamentally altering the nature of their G+/ILL business and their ability to serve regular guests -- especially if they have significant data/evidence to back this up (and @lentesta has suggested they do).

 

[Happyday]

Ride capacity is fixed on a per ride basis. Every time an unaccounted for guest enters the LL, either the LL will grow or the standby line will pause for 1 extra person.

For instance lets take a haunted mansion and it's 2,600 person per hour capacity and Disney wants to give 300 of the spots to paying G+ customers and 2,300 spots to the standby line.

If no unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio is 3:23 (lets simplify to 1:8)
If 300 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (~1:4)
If 1000 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (~1:2)
Finally is 1,450 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (2:1)

The number of "unexpected" guests come from VIP, golden oak, club 33, rider swap, and DAS. If people have DAS and should not, that unexpected guest number goes up.

The standby line went from 89% of the ride capacity to 33% of the ride capacity and moves almost 3 times slower. What do you think happens to the standby line if 2,300 unexpected guests start showing up every hour...

I would once again like to say. I think DAS should allow those that need to it have it.

Okay I get your point however look at it like this. You have 20 people in line 4 of them step out of line at the start of waiting in line leaving placeholder there. Then just before you ride they switch back. You are not affecting the number of people it just moves them from one line to the other that is what DAS does.

 

[Splash4eva]

It did at Universal Studios, express waits on busy days went from 30-45 min to 15 min. Standby lost 30 min of their wait too. At Disney I expect that G+ waits will be drastically reduced, and standby will have more modest deductions. The latter will be tempered by how much more G+ slots Disney creates, if they determine they can make due to the lack of extra LL users.

Time will tell but if you think you are gonna see the same results at Uni (dk how accurate your statement is) i will disagree & if you dont think Disney is gonna sell more Genie you are mistaken.

 

[DisneyFanatic12]

Tough issue to solve all around. This is by far not the best solution, and hopefully they fix most of the flaws in this plan, but something had to change, and soon. The abuse that DAS saw was just insane.

 

[Vclguy90]

Ride capacity is fixed on a per ride basis. Every time an unaccounted for guest enters the LL, either the LL will grow or the standby line will pause for 1 extra person.

For instance lets take a haunted mansion and it's 2,600 person per hour capacity and Disney wants to give 300 of the spots to paying G+ customers and 2,300 spots to the standby line.

If no unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio is 3:23 (lets simplify to 1:8)
If 300 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (~1:4)
If 1000 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (~1:2)
Finally is 1,450 unexpected guests enter the LL, the ratio must now be (2:1)

The number of "unexpected" guests come from VIP, golden oak, club 33, rider swap, and DAS. If people have DAS and should not, that unexpected guest number goes up.

The standby line went from 89% of the ride capacity to 33% of the ride capacity and moves almost 3 times slower. What do you think happens to the standby line if 2,300 unexpected guests start showing up every hour...

I would once again like to say. I think DAS should allow those that need to it have it.

Thank you for explaining this to me with data. But if the DAS abusers were converted to G+/LL, what's the difference? I understand there is a max number they would sell and a hourly cap on the number of LL per hour but do you think this will stay capped as a huge surge of LL-soldout complaints come soaring into Guest Relations? Not just the fact that LL is becoming harder to get but because they were denied a DAS and now can't even get a LL? It would only be a matter of time (give it a month) that those LL limitations will be lifted by Disney - not primarily to silence complaints, but to capilize on G+ while silencing complaints. Trust and believe that the DAS-denied group will be converted to LL and everything will remain just how it is. So what is the point in causing this unnecessary uproar?

 

[DisneyFanatic12]

One a slightly different note, how much of the DAS abuse was “fueled” by Genie+?

Not that DAS abuse is ok to any extent, but if you charge a substantial amount for a service and offer what some people view as a “free” alternative, many people are going to abuse what they see as a loophole. Was the same issue at Universal.

I was disgusted by how many “trip planning” videos there were on YouTube telling people to get DAS because it was “pretty much the same as Fastpass”.