New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

flynnibus

Premium Member
I’m perfectly fine with the system they’ve decided to adopt, since they’re the ones who will have to defend it.

I was addressing the proposal of an arbitrary limit on the number of DAS passes without basing the determination on need.
I think that's a slight misrepresentation tho... it's not a 'limit on the number of DAS passes without basing the determination on need'

It was just a capacity limit on the number of people who could access the service. Eligiblilty was still to be determined as as before - there is just a limit on the number of passes to go around. Eligible is eligible, 'space'/capacity is in addition. Just like having a handicap placard makes you eligible, but didn't garuntee you a spot. No one said you weren't eligible when they didn't have a space for you.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I think that's a slight misrepresentation tho... it's not a 'limit on the number of DAS passes without basing the determination on need'

It was just a capacity limit on the number of people who could access the service. Eligiblilty was still to be determined as as before - there is just a limit on the number of passes to go around. Eligible is eligible, 'space'/capacity is in addition. Just like having a handicap placard makes you eligible, but didn't garuntee you a spot. No one said you weren't eligible when they didn't have a space for you.
Why would that be better than what they’re doing now?

Do you mean they would tell people they qualify for DAS accommodations but Disney ran out?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Why would that be better than what they’re doing now?

Do you mean they would tell people they qualify for DAS accommodations but Disney ran out?
That's what he proposed... I'm not suggesting it to be the be-all-end-all.. but I'm not discounting it as an option because of a belief that they can't risk not serving someone.

Personally I think the proposal is a selfish view of people with the old DAS.. a view of 'I'm gonna get mine...'. and not wanting any change, thinking they would just always be included... and others would be the ones who would be excluded.

Personally I'm anti-"one size fits all" and always have been for accommodations. I think it's that "one size" model that created the problem as Disney just wanted to minimize the effort to put into the thing. Same thing happened when they used to have stamps on the cards.. they just got lazy and resorted to giving everyone the max access.

I'm all for tailoring to patterns of needs and no obligation to 'maintain' what people had before.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
That's what he proposed... I'm not suggesting it to be the be-all-end-all.. but I'm not discounting it as an option because of a belief that they can't risk not serving someone.

Personally I think the proposal is a selfish view of people with the old DAS.. a view of 'I'm gonna get mine...'. and not wanting any change, thinking they would just always be included... and others would be the ones who would be excluded.

Personally I'm anti-"one size fits all" and always have been for accommodations. I think it's that "one size" model that created the problem as Disney just wanted to minimize the effort to put into the thing. Same thing happened when they used to have stamps on the cards.. they just got lazy and resorted to giving everyone the max access.

I'm all for tailoring to patterns of needs and no obligation to 'maintain' what people had before.
We agree - we just like to talk a lot.
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
At the risk of this being an unpopular take, the notion that Disney should ration DAS and make it first come first serve instead of giving to everyone who cannot be accommodated in some other way can come off as very self serving. Why else would anybody advocate for a model where the most in need of the accommodations could be shut out?

I just don’t understand how we have 425 pages of back and forth with a large portion of it surrounding how Disney has a responsibility to accommodate everyone even at the expensive of their operations, just to land on the opinion that actually its totally cool to not accommodate the people most in need of the accommodations if they were too slow to book.
Unfortunately, resources are rationed because they’re limited. Not everyone can get special treatment. Better that the few who need it most are taken care of than everyone jockeying for more and then leaving everyone worse off.
 

C33Mom

Well-Known Member
First, LL capacity is absolutely a finite resource— there have been dozens of reports of people who generally cannot ride certain rides (Test Track and Peter Pan are the most common culprits, but it happens at many other rides on a less predictable basis) even with DAS because lightening lanes stretch 30+ minutes. Total ride capacity is limited as well but harder to explain to people who don’t want to understand it.

I (think I am) agreeing with @Chi84 and @flynnibus (but I also like to talk)— I think the current DAS overhaul focusing primarily on children who cannot handle waits at all, along with AQR for prior users (presumably including me), is far better than the hypothetical alternative of saying “all disabilities qualify but we can only allow 5-10% of LL capacity to go to DAS and we will distribute it first come first serve” (or even worse, randomly such that you don’t know you have it until the week/day of)—but there is a non-trivial chance it won’t ultimately work for Disney.

If even half of the outright fakers (and the prior users who believe they are still entitled to it become fakers) all mysteriously start having at least 25% of their family/group becoming severely autistic and knowing exactly what to say to get it, Disney is going to be back to having an unworkable system. Even if Disney could legally ask for documentation (which is far far from certain, and would likely benefit their wealthy guests at the expense of the less privileged), they don’t want to be in the game of determining if one kid with autism is really “autistic enough” to qualify more than another, or trying to weed out which doctors notes are coming from medical mills, etc. At that point, they might say “we tried our best to cut back to focus on families who truly most needed DAS but we still don’t have adequate capacity, so starting [in a month or two, knowing Disney] we will be offering [some number of] individuals with a qualifying disability the ability to request DAS system accommodations each day” or they might not limit DAS access but suddenly it would start to look more like Genie+, with per ride capacity limited and return times that vanish before noon, or they might just get rid of it entirely and use more flexible AQR instead.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Disney and Universal are both currently lobbying to try to get clarification for what percentage of attraction fast pass capacity they must give to disabled guests, now that they have a friendly state government.
 

NotTheOne

Well-Known Member
First, LL capacity is absolutely a finite resource— there have been dozens of reports of people who generally cannot ride certain rides (Test Track and Peter Pan are the most common culprits, but it happens at many other rides on a less predictable basis) even with DAS because lightening lanes stretch 30+ minutes. Total ride capacity is limited as well but harder to explain to people who don’t want to understand it.

I (think I am) agreeing with @Chi84 and @flynnibus (but I also like to talk)— I think the current DAS overhaul focusing primarily on children who cannot handle waits at all, along with AQR for prior users (presumably including me), is far better than the hypothetical alternative of saying “all disabilities qualify but we can only allow 5-10% of LL capacity to go to DAS and we will distribute it first come first serve” (or even worse, randomly such that you don’t know you have it until the week/day of)—but there is a non-trivial chance it won’t ultimately work for Disney.

If even half of the outright fakers (and the prior users who believe they are still entitled to it become fakers) all mysteriously start having at least 25% of their family/group becoming severely autistic and knowing exactly what to say to get it, Disney is going to be back to having an unworkable system. Even if Disney could legally ask for documentation (which is far far from certain, and would likely benefit their wealthy guests at the expense of the less privileged), they don’t want to be in the game of determining if one kid with autism is really “autistic enough” to qualify more than another, or trying to weed out which doctors notes are coming from medical mills, etc. At that point, they might say “we tried our best to cut back to focus on families who truly most needed DAS but we still don’t have adequate capacity, so starting [in a month or two, knowing Disney] we will be offering [some number of] individuals with a qualifying disability the ability to request DAS system accommodations each day” or they might not limit DAS access but suddenly it would start to look more like Genie+, with per ride capacity limited and return times that vanish before noon, or they might just get rid of it entirely and use more flexible AQR instead.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Disney and Universal are both currently lobbying to try to get clarification for what percentage of attraction fast pass capacity they must give to disabled guests, now that they have a friendly state government.
This is where I see Disney going, if the current changes either don't reduce LL enough or if, as has happened in the past, over a period of years it grows to an unmanageable level again. No DAS issued in advance, you go to the ride and are given either AQR, or if a solo traveler on a duo who needs a caretaker, you're provided a return time.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
I can't say we ever had that problem in the 2000s when my kids were small. Even at attractions like Soarin' with very low thresholds of height requirements... or HM. It was never questioned at all - just we spoke to the CM, and some of our party didn't enter... and two people came back on the RS pass to the FP return late.


Then maybe this was a later iteration as they tried to curb some behavior.. because it wasn't always like that. RS was a god send and just one of those tips/secrets you learned about and made your trip all that much more enjoyable.
There was a 'crack down' period. I want to say it was around 2009ish. As another poster reported, just as DAS fakery is the concern now, the concern back then was Rider Swap fakery.
 

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
There was a 'crack down' period. I want to say it was around 2009ish. As another poster reported, just as DAS fakery is the concern now, the concern back then was Rider Swap fakery.
How did people fake rider swap? My daughter was born in 2014 and anytime we went and needed it. They basically asked us to “prove” we had a child like there were times i would go myself and my wife at the time was not with me they would have them come over or at least i would have to get their attention of close by. So im egenuinely curious what people were doing for ride swaps
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
How did people fake rider swap? My daughter was born in 2014 and anytime we went and needed it. They basically asked us to “prove” we had a child like there were times i would go myself and my wife at the time was not with me they would have them come over or at least i would have to get their attention of close by. So im egenuinely curious what people were doing for ride swaps
I think it was abuse/overuse moreso than faking having a kid at all (maybe fakingthe fact that the kid was too small to ride, however). At one time, Rider Swap allowed the person waiting to bring up to 3 other guests with them through the FP+ line, so people could essentially get 2 FP+ rides back-to-back for a good portion of their travel party (or 1 Standby and 1 FP+ without using one of their 3 pre-selections). Even used legitimately, that was a big impact on both FP+ and Standby wait times and made for an attractive "Disney hack" for people wanting to ride things multiple times and no conscience about lying to get what they want.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
the captioning devices I referenced earlier work for live shows as well, I believe.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean an interpreter does not need to be provided if requested.

I think in general, Disney is able to accommodate with CC devices, written scripts, etc. - but if guests are unable to plan around Disneys published schedule for an interpreter, I believe Disney is still required to provide an interpreter when requested legally.
 

Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
I think it was abuse/overuse moreso than faking having a kid at all (maybe fakingthe fact that the kid was too small to ride, however). At one time, Rider Swap allowed the person waiting to bring up to 3 other guests with them through the FP+ line, so people could essentially get 2 FP+ rides back-to-back for a good portion of their travel party (or 1 Standby and 1 FP+ without using one of their 3 pre-selections). Even used legitimately, that was a big impact on both FP+ and Standby wait times and made for an attractive "Disney hack" for people wanting to ride things multiple times and no conscience about lying to get what they want.
Yes they did and off memory i believe they were dated by the “month” so in theory you could hold it back for another day… i recall this vividly the holy grail as i called it hahaha
 

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NotTheOne

Well-Known Member
Yes, but that doesn’t mean an interpreter does not need to be provided if requested.

I think in general, Disney is able to accommodate with CC devices, written scripts, etc. - but if guests are unable to plan around Disneys published schedule for an interpreter, I believe Disney is still required to provide an interpreter when requested legally.
I highly doubt they are legally required to provide an interpreter, although it appears they will try to do so when possible. So long as they can accommodate the need, they aren't legally required to provide it in the manner that someone requests.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
The way that I read the law on the ADA site, they do, but I’m thankfully not a lawyer. Haha.
Interesting, given our discussion of having people have to plan ahead for DAS use or limitations on it. It appears the scheduled times for interpreters was something the US saw as sufficient at the time of this release.

Guests who wish to request interpreted performances of: (i) Epcot World Showcase street-type entertainers; (ii) America Gardens performances; or (iii) House of Invention, none of which will appear on the interpreter schedule must request the interpreter services at least 14 days prior to the date on which they would like the services. Among these events, which may change from time to time, are currently included: Voices of Liberty; Le Clown Gordoon; Jon Armstrong Magic Show; Pam Brody; World Showcase Players; Canadian Comedy Corps.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It appears the scheduled times for interpreters was something the US saw as sufficient at the time of this release.
What a fantastic find!!! Very interesting document, obviously this was written prior to 1998.

“when interpreting is not available at the guest's park of choice, WDW shall also make an effort to provide interpreter services on a day on which they are not regularly scheduled. It is the parties' hope and expectation that the two-week notice requirement will be reduced to one week, or less, no later than December 31, 1998, unless WDW informs the Department on or before November 1, 1998, that there is good cause for not being able to shorten the two week notice provision.”

Also, and this relates to DAS and Guest Relations -


WDW will continue to provide a complaint procedure for guests including complaints regarding treatment of guests with hearing disabilities and availability of auxiliary aids. All WDW Guest Services employees located at any Guest Services location shall be trained to respond to questions or complaints about: current policies for addressing the needs of guests with disabilities, information about available transcripts, paper and pencil, and emergency procedures for persons who are deaf or hard of hearing.
 

NotTheOne

Well-Known Member
The way that I read the law on the ADA site, they do, but I’m thankfully not a lawyer. Haha.

"Title III entities are encouraged to consult with the person with a disability to discuss what aid or service is appropriate. The goal is to provide an aid or service that will be effective, given the nature of what is being communicated and the person’s method of communicating.

Covered entities may require reasonable advance notice from people requesting aids or services, based on the length of time needed to acquire the aid or service, but may not impose excessive advance notice requirements. “Walk-in” requests for aids and services must also be honored to the extent possible."
 

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