New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Ayla]

Interesting. Are they mostly saying that the accommodations are for developmental disabilities, or are you noticing broad approval for many conditions?

From what am I reading, there is no asking of why they need accommodations, just broad approval.

 

[pdude81]

From what am I reading, there is no asking of why they need accommodations, just broad approval.

Hmm. I wonder if they are just letting it roll for people who have been approved before in the transition period, as @Chi84 was suggesting.

 

[ditzee]

Based on what I am reading on a Facebook DAS group that was recommended to me (thanks algorithms ), it seems the "new" approval process is basically worthless and everyone that asks for DAS is getting it.

The DAS CM I spoke to during registration on Saturday told me that the rules will not change until May 20th. Until then, everything remains the same.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

So what day/month?

See this is why I’m asking:

The premise thrown out is that DAS needs to be preserved over putting people in genie because they lose their ability to reride all day LIKE standby…

But that’s an old debate fallacy…taking anecdotes like “one day we rode rides twice cause there was little wait…” and tossing out the MEAN of the situation.

The reality is the tales of back to backs - once common in the off seasons which don’t really exist anymore - are not a significant portion of the average days. And the average is all that matters.

Same with the stories of getting 14 FP+ on a day. For every one of those…you would get 30 (maybe more) “3 and outs”…which was a problem for Disney because DAK, MGM, EPCOT were emptying out and heading back to the pool. The pool doesn’t have an upcharge…yet.

The discussions of park ops must ALWAYS be about the average…not the outliers. I don’t form my takes from New Year’s Eve. Unless it’s about New Year’s Eve

Okay, today. Right now, BTMRR has posted 35 min wait, but when I posted earlier, it was only a posted 20.

In March of this year I was at MK and we were able to ride Space Mtn back to back in the morning with very little wait. After that, we rode Astro with approx 20min wait, then Buzz back-to-back with an approx10min wait. After that, we saw the Speedway was still just about walk-on, and the teacups were just about walk-on. We opted for Pooh, with posted 15min wait. I didn't time the queue, but I think it was under 15.

In the last year, I've been able to do a number of back to backs. Not at HS, and I wouldn't want to ride most of Epcot back-to-back. In AK, we often ride EE back-to-back. I'm not sure what else you'd want to do back-to-back in AK.

Ironically, I was also at WDW on NYE of 2022/2023. The park was open for a full hour after the fireworks ended. We stayed that last hour, and everything was walk-on. Even before the fireworks, the park wasn't all the crowded.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Based on what I am reading on a Facebook DAS group that was recommended to me (thanks algorithms ), it seems the "new" approval process is basically worthless and everyone that asks for DAS is getting it.

The new approval process hasn't gone into effect yet. It isn't until May 20th at WDW.

 

[Ayla]

The new approval process hasn't gone into effect yet. It isn't until May 20th at WDW.

I'm assuming it has, since we are within the 30 day window of May 20th.

 

[adam.adbe]

Not necessarily, because that is also assuming that 'going on other rides' = timing things perfectly.
Let's say someone gets a DAS for an attraction with a 25minute wait- say Pooh, and then they go on another ride while waiting using the standby queue.

Yes, they are doing another attraction, but odds are pretty high that it will take more than 25 minutes to do the other attraction. On a slow day like today at 10:30am, here are the options:
Astro - 35 -too long
Barnstormer 10
BTMRR 20
Buzz 15
watch Dapper Dans - no impact
watch cavalcade - no impact
Dumbo 10
HoP - who cares
HM 35 - too long
iasw 10
JC 40 - too long
Riverboat
teacups 5
Aladdin 15
Pooh 25
Meet Ariel 25
Meet Cindy/Mickey 30 - too long
Meet Disney Pals 20-25
Meet Tiana 30 - too long
Philarmagic 15
Monsters
PP 40 - too long
Pirate 25
Carousel 10
7D 65- too long
SM 40 - too long
Treehouse
Speedway 20
Peoplemover 5
LM 15
CoP 5
Tiki Room 15

So if we really break it down, light blue = takes too long, dark blue= no real impact because the attraction has no wait/rarely fills to capacity. If they did the orange attractions, they would take more than 25minutes.

The list of attractions they can cover in less than 25minutes is pretty short: Barnstormer (who cares?) Buzz, Dumbo, teacups, Aladdin, Carousel, Peoplemover, and LM. It sorta works in MK, but most of those are what we might call skippable.

Your math is based on the idea that people aren't already double-queuing. If Disney changed the DAS policy to not allow guests to be in two lines at once, those standby lines would naturally be somewhat shorter. IOW those waits aren't precluding people from riding while waiting a DAS return, just the number of times that the average DAS party can ride other attractions during the return window.

 

[adam.adbe]

but this is assuming the person getting the DAS REALLY doesn't need it, and also well, if they can get DAS, why would they want to wait in a 40min queue?

From what I know of human nature, I am inclined to think people with a DAS would be inclined to use the pass to take breaks instead.

I am inclined to think most people who get DAS have some degree of disability. Grandma with COPD is not eagerly racing around MK in 95 degree heat unless there is a strong reason. I'm inclined to think DAS = the family can now travel at a far more relaxed pace.

It's not necessarily the DAS guest, but the five other family members. Grandma is probably not tearing up the park, but the grandkids definitely can be. So the strategy is simply: we ride headliner X with grandma at 11AM, but maybe four of the five other family members go off and do a bunch of things in the interim 45-80mins.

 

[Jenn Finan]

Absolutely. Looking at the wide middle of both bell curves addresses that.

Vacationeer said:
What is the average parkgoer accomplishing each day vs the average DAS holder. If the wide middle of the bell curves for both groups show one with much higher rates, then the system is broken as far as matching experiences is concerned.
~~~~

I can't tell you with hard numbers from Disney what a DAS party who falls in the mean section of the bell curve accomplishes in a single visit but my experience over 7 visits was 2 to 3 per day versus 5 per day which is what Guest Services has told me was the average for an able bodied guest and I would think that we fall in the middle of the bell curve based on my experiences and people that we have met in the park. I'm OK with doing less than the average guest. We do what we can until we are done for the day but let's crack down on the bad actors who are lying to game the system and not penalize those with legitimate needs. Pre-COVID, we visited the parks annually and took 5 days to do what most would do in 2. That was fine. I deal with that reality every day but this policy, as it has been outlined so far means that we will never return to the parks because it will significantly impact our ability to enjoy the parks at our already reduced level of enjoyment and we would rather spend our time doing other things that are more enjoyable.

 

[adam.adbe]

I'm assuming it has, since we are within the 30 day window of May 20th.

The smart play for Disney is to just roll the old policy for guests who booked before May 20th, while publicly suggesting that the new policy is active for everyone on that date, since the threat of bans for falsified claims may deter a lot of chancers (Disney presumably hope most if not all). Not exactly ideal though for those who've long since paid and are currently uncertain as to how their vacation is going to play out with respect to special needs in their party.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Based on what I am reading on a Facebook DAS group that was recommended to me (thanks algorithms ), it seems the "new" approval process is basically worthless and everyone that asks for DAS is getting it.

How would they know?

It won’t start for almost another month.

 

[Happyday]

Based on what I am reading on a Facebook DAS group that was recommended to me (thanks algorithms ), it seems the "new" approval process is basically worthless and everyone that asks for DAS is getting it.

Yes I as well checked out the FB page and yes that is what is being said but they are also mentioning that the CM are informing them that the actual roll out is on May 20 for WDW meaning they are not asking the new questions or giving other options till May 20th so basically everything is status quo until then. If you call before then there is no change then abracadabra May 20 hold onto your hats. If I were going June 19 or earlier make sure you make that call by May 19.

 

[Happyday]

From what am I reading, there is no asking of why they need accommodations, just broad approval.

Hmm. I wonder if they are just letting it roll for people who have been approved before in the transition period, as @Chi84 was suggesting.

Actually from what I read on the page is that the new questions and guidelines are not going to be implemented at the pre approval portion till May 20 according to the CM on the video chat. So the video chat section will change on May 20

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

1. If someone was maximizing their waits, they wouldn't choose a shorter line and queue for something longer. So in the case DAS is used for pooh, people could go get a snack, go to the bathroom, watch a parade, or quite possibly do IASW. For anybody who really likes 7DMT, they could just get a pass for that and then do Pooh and VOTLM while waiting for that time to come back up. Also remember if for some reason the guest got a pass for something that is 25 minutes and then came back 35 minutes later due to any number of reasons, they still get to go in the LL. So you can't immediately discount other lines that are similar in length from people possible targets.

2. You were saying that some queues have short waits so a person going into that queue while having a return pass doesn't make a difference. I think that is impossible as anybody behind you in those queues had to wait at least one person longer. And the overall difference on people essentially being in two queues at once is proportionally related to the number of people using that strategy. And if those former "walk on" attractions start getting longer waits from people who have nothing to do waiting for the 7DMT return time, then it cuts back on what the day guest can do without paying for G+ or ILL to make their day manageable.

3. For people who truly need DAS to make their park experience manageable, I agree that they aren't likely trying to sneak in extra rides while waiting for the 25 minute Pooh window to end. But it seems Disney has determined that a high enough percentage of people they gave DAS to are gaining an advantage over guests that don't have that accommodation. Personally I know how to maximize the line waits and get a ton done with G+, though it's somewhat unpredictable what will be available throughout the day. Given that line waits are far less predictable than which G+ time slots are left, they have created a situation where this DAS is more effective, more efficient, allows for actually planning your day ahead of time rather than just kind of winging it, costs nothing compared to $30ish per person, and ultimately impacts 40% of guests in attendance.

I think you are applying your decision engine to a static point in time and thinking about what you would do in that situation. That can't be applied to a fictional guest I will create (for this example) who lied about their anxiety to get DAS and intends to ride as many things as possible today. They could get that Pooh pass, go knock out Dumbo and meet the characters in big top, then walk back to do Pooh, then get a pass for 7DMT and ride UTS, meet ariel, ride IASW, have a snack. Then ride 7DMT, get a SM pass, do peoplemover and MILF, do Tron if they got a boarding group, ride SM. Then get a HM pass, grab a hot dog on the way, hit the Tangled restrooms, ride HM. Then get a BTMRR pass, do Tiki Room and magic carpets, do Pirates, then use the BTMRR pass. Clearly this is a hard-to-follow narrative and just a random example of what to do, but some people will maximize in this way. It's what people used to do with FP+ when they could plan certain rides at certain times and know what the line waits would likely be as the day goes on.

1. Yes. I didn't say they wouldn't do it, just that they probably wouldn't do it inside of 25minutes.
2. You are correct in one sense. But if they are using the time to do something like Moana or animal walk-through attractions, that wouldn't directly = longer waits for everyone else. The impact depends how aggressive they are.

3. This is part of the crux of the discussion, and really what I was trying to get at: Are DAS users 100% fit/able bodied power-users, or do they have some degree of disability?

I think many folks are projecting what they would do - as able-bodied park goers- if they had what they imagine DAS to be, and how they would power-use it.

4. To some extent, yes, but I've been going to WDW for many years, including many with small groups, many with larger groups, some with first timers, etc. A busy times of year, and at slower times of year.

IME, the bigger the group, the more park touring = herding cats. large group = nearly impossible to do power-park touring.

First timers have no clue how to tour. They have no idea how to zig when the crowd zags. They have the crazy idea that WDW = sleeping late, eating lunch at noon, and moving at a slow pace all with no consequences, that WDW is a vacation. Also don't tend to be power-park goers unless they are strongly A-type personality.


5. Mainly, what I have found is that many (most?) people don't like to rush if they don't have to rush. Some folks will always be inclined to rush, but many would happily use DAS to travel WDW at a relaxed pace - assuming they are even capable of power-touring.

 

[Ayla]

How would they know?

It won’t start for almost another month.

If you are visiting after May 19th, you are within the 30 day window of asking for DAS accommodations, so yes, some of those posting are visiting after the new rules go into effect.

 

[RamblinWreck]

If you are visiting after May 19th, you are within the 30 day window of asking for DAS accommodations, so yes, some of those posting are visiting after the new rules go into effect.

Okay

But the new rules don’t even exist yet. So no one is yet being subjected to them.

 

[ditzee]

If you are visiting after May 19th, you are within the 30 day window of asking for DAS accommodations, so yes, some of those posting are visiting after the new rules go into effect.

Anyone with a trip from June 19-20 onward will be affected because the new rules do not go into effect until May 20th. This is from a CM I chatted with on Saturday.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

At the end of the day there are some DAS groups who have the ability to leverage DAS and some groups for whom DAS is doing nothing more than providing needed access. The examples and anecdotes to me are irrelevant on both ends of the spectrum, because I think what’s more meaningful is the way we know Disney is implementing changes and I think a conclusion we can draw from that is that enough DAS groups were capable of leveraging it enough to stress the entire operation too much.

They know so much more than we do, they will never release that kind of info, so all we have to go on beyond anecdotes is their actions. Those actions say to me it was able to be leveraged by enough of the legitimate (and illegitimate) qualifiers to need a change.

 

[Vacationeer]

WDW hasn’t been very clear on the rollout. I think what’s happening is a transition where some overlap between old/new will occur between May 20 and June 20. This might be intentional so the changes don’t shock park operations.

Possibly this is what’s happening: 2 groups are coming in with first park day May 28. The first group pre-registers before May 20 and for the most part not much changed. The second group registers after May 20, and that process includes more or most of the changes.

People have confirmed video chatting this week for trips starting after May 20 and reporting not much seems changed. Maybe the first changes won’t really be seen until registrations taking place after May 20, and full changes won’t be seen until after the June cutoff date.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Your math is based on the idea that people aren't already double-queuing. If Disney changed the DAS policy to not allow guests to be in two lines at once, those standby lines would naturally be somewhat shorter. IOW those waits aren't precluding people from riding while waiting a DAS return, just the number of times that the average DAS party can ride other attractions during the return window.

This is true. I was merely questioning the notion that (all/most) DAS users are power-using DAS to optimize park touring to optimal perfection.

From what I know of park touring, the QS are places like Casey's Corner are empty from opening through 11:45am. They get crazy busy 11:55-1:15pm, then wind down quickly until dinner.

The average park goer doesn't tour optimally, they tour based on emotion/wants, or what they read somewhere. If they toured optimally, they'd avoid the lunch rush.



In March, I visited AK on a slow day. Just after rope drop, FoP had a 90 minute wait, but EVERYTHING else was walk-on and stayed near walk-on for about 2 hours. People still chose to follow the herd and head to FoP. Parkgoers were touring based on emotion, not the most effective way to tour.

They would have done much better if they had chosen to ride FoP later in the day, when the wait was only 50-60minutes, but Dinosaur was 30minutes. I've seen the same pattern many times.