Negativity

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I've been in the OPs shoes before on here, and have seen the results. The only thing I will add is that I hope that, whether you are a "pixie duster" or "doom & gloomer", you put just as much effort, passion and intensity into real issues in society today that you do on here, cause let's face it, what it all boils down to is that we are discussing a theme park. Not politics, not war, not hunger, not religion-theme parks. I think alot of us need to keep a bit of perspective when things get nasty and personal here.

I don't know why people are so different when it comes to Disney World. The past week or so FB has been showing me where I was "on this day" 2 years ago. We were on a 15 night WDW/Key West vacation.

In WDW it rained a little almost every afternoon, normal summer showers.

In KW it stormed every single day.
Went to the beach, rented all of the gear, within 10 minutes a water spout popped up and a storm came in. Obviously we left the beach right away. Could have ripped up a $100 bill instead.lol

That entire week was one of cancellations, some voluntary (afraid to take kiddo on rough seas-no refund), and some involuntary, where the excursion company canceled due to weather (at least I got a refund on these)
That portion of the trip was about equal in cost to our WDW stay including a theme park view room at Poly.
I was sad, but I realize that weather and disappointments can happen on vacation.

However, for some reason when people are at WDW they think that they should be exempt and protected from any disappointment, no matter how trivial. It's the strangest thing.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
However, for some reason when people are at WDW they think that they should be exempt and protected from any disappointment, no matter how trivial. It's the strangest thing.
Have you considered the obvious: cost plus advertising?

Disney loves to advertise its resorts as the most magical places in the World, the place where dreams come true. (Have you read the thread about what you learn from a Disney commercial; it's hilarious!) Disney is the one setting incredibly high expectations.

Meanwhile, a Disney vacation is much more expensive relative to income than it used to be. Understandably, Guests want top notch experiences at those prices. Remember, WDW is the most expensive theme park resort in the World. Shouldn't it be the best?

With Disney charging incredibly high prices and Disney setting incredibly high expectations, is it really any wonder that people expect a trip to WDW to be perfect?
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Have you considered the obvious: cost plus advertising?

Disney loves to advertise its resorts as the most magical places in the World, the place where dreams come true. (Have you read the thread about what you learn from a Disney commercial; it's hilarious!) Disney is the one setting incredibly high expectations.

Meanwhile, a Disney vacation is much more expensive relative to income than it used to be. Understandably, Guests want top notch experiences at those prices.

With Disney charging incredibly high prices and Disney setting incredibly high expectations, is it really any wonder that people expect a trip to WDW to be perfect?

The cost was part of my post though.. in reality WDW is expensive, but there are plenty of other vacations that cost the same, or a lot more depending on where you stay at Disney.

Like I said, our week in KW was about the same overall cost as our week at Disney, same time of year, same trip. Had one of our excursions not been cancelled, KW would have come out even more, by quite a few hundred dollars. Granted we did the dining plan and 7 day tickets that trip at Disney, and spend a lot more on food and entertainment etc in Key West. Entertainment vs entertainment the 7 day parks pass is much cheaper than what we spend on entertainment in the Keys over a 7 day period. The only reason they were equal was because our hotel in KW was @ $150 less per night than Poly. Had I stayed in a different room Category or different resort at Disney- then WDW would have been the cheaper of the 2.

If people believe everything they see on an advertisement then they're going to be severely disappointed wherever they go.
 
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KBLovedDisney

Well-Known Member
OP?...Hello? OP...?
tenor.gif
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Sure, a company bears absolutely no responsibility to actually deliver on what it advertises. :rolleyes:

:banghead:

They advertise with a goal of emotions being felt by the audience, which will hopefully turn into a customer.
Almost every company does this. People just laser in on Disney more than the others. Not totally sure why.
 

Dave B

Well-Known Member
Some people complain about everything. I think this web site is much like a sports bar. You can go watch a football game, baseball, whatever and their is always the crowd who will comment on everything in usually a bad way. The hard core fans who notice all the details. You can watch a game as a causal watcher and everything is fine but the hard core all look at it differently. That guy is in a slump, that other guy is phoning it in, etc.

Personally I went from go to WDW 2 or 3 times a year to zero the last 2 years. Simple reason is Universal gives me more bang for the buck.

My first problem is the new fast pass system. I live 4 1/2 hours from WDW so I don't plan 180 days out. It literally means I get locked out of rides and restaurants but I gave up on the restaurants years ago. To much advanced planning, don't like that. Universal has none of that nonsense.

Hotels. Universal and WDW have many hotels but Universal gives you a lot more for the money. My favorite Universal hotel is the Portofino. All in $300 a night was what I paid last time. I compare that to The Wilderness Lodge a favorite of mine at WDW. Last stay there was $365. On WL. I rode up there and no doormen to be found, someone did get to me after some time. Universal, doormen waiting at the curb, "Welcome to the Portofino, may I unload your luggage" etc. Check in was quick and painless at Universal, maybe 2 minutes tops. WL was more like 10-12 minutes from an aloof guy who was wearing to much make up. Hands down the rooms at the Portofino are bigger better and in better shape. First thing I saw at WL when I opened the door was a thread bare carpet leading into the much smaller room then Universal. Daughter and son started laughing a minute later because the pressurized toilet when flushed sent the toilets contents flying up in the air over seat level. They thought the was the best thing ever, I did not. Of course after that the toilet ran continuously. I was hungry so I fixed the toilet instead of waiting forever for a repair guy. Noticed a nice patch in the ceiling, water leak. Horrible job fixing the dry wall. When I went to bed the mattress had a giant indentation where, seriously talking a sank in 4-6 inches. Wife and I rolled towards each other all night.

Service and rooms are better at Universal, period.

Ok who cares about all that, WDW is still nice if you book in advance and have low expectations for an expensive hotel room.

I'm in the minority but I think NFL did it's job and is a nice upgrade. If you have small children that's the part of MK you end up in and everything is geared that way. You can't take a Cedar Point coaster put it in FL throwing Peter Pan on top of it. Not what the crowd there wants or would even ride. Mine train could be longer but it's a very good family coaster. The new Dumbo set up is great as well.

Other then that, nothing has been built into rising attendance. Tickets go up, attendance goes up but nothing new really showed up. Look at DHS. They're now rebuilding half the park because it has always been half a park.

Finally something new went in AK but AK was a half day park. I always hit AK but it was lacking for years and still is.

Epcot? I'm not drinking around the world with children in tow. That means Epcot is basically two rides with huge waits and a good fire works show. Yes I have seen everything in Epcot and not impressed. Would you pay $100 to just go there for the day?

Universal is building left and right. Out with the old in with the new. New water park as well. All this within easy reach of the hotels, no long bus rides, boat rides or whatever else transport. Transportation is so much easier at Universal and more importantly quicker.

WDW needs to up their game and they are now but what people have a problem with is they needed to do it earlier. WDW should have been building into the crowd. One project a year would have worked. 4 parks, one new thing or remodel per year, 4 new attractions over 4 years wouldn't have killed Disney. 8 over 8 years. Instead they did nothing and now they are are trying to catch up on what they should have done.

People who know WDW do have valid complaints as too what management has been doing. As far as me I moved on till WDW completes all this stuff. If prices go up from here by much I probably won't be back because there is better bang for my buck out there. Been there done that, has become a tourist trap.
Well I could not disagree more, We are looking into our first universal trip right now as an add on to our WDW trip over thanksgiving, I can tell you it seems like a very shady run business. The people every time I call are rude and short, no energy, it seems like they nickel and dime you for everything, having to pay for parking at the resort is ridiculous, there are no shuttles or transportation to the resort unless you want to pay, you have to carry three different tickets around with you it seems if you have the express pass and the photo opp, along with your park ticket, it really dies NOT have the same feel at all, I am really hoping its different if we go but from reading the comments, its really a 50/50 crap shoot, and if you do not purchase the express pass, you will only get on 4-5 rides the entire day, from what I read on the boards
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
They advertise with a goal of emotions being felt by the audience, which will hopefully turn into a customer.
Almost every company does this. People just laser in on Disney more than the others. Not totally sure why.
You're alluding to the difference between puffery and false advertising. One is legal, the other is not.

I'm not suggesting what Disney does is illegal; it's puffery.

However, what puffery does is raise customer expectations.

You started this discussion by posting: "for some reason when people are at WDW they think that they should be exempt and protected from any disappointment."

I'm stating that because of Disney's advertising, Disney is setting customer expectations extremely high. Because of this, I'm am suggesting that it's not surprising that some "think that they should be exempt and protected from any disappointment".

When I pay a Four Seasons price, I expect a Four Seasons level of service.

WDW is the most expensive theme park resort in the World. The customer has a reasonable expectation of being disappointed if Disney fails to deliver.

Again, this is not false advertising (a crime). It's puffery leading to customer "disappointment".
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
You're alluding to the difference between puffery and false advertising. One is legal, the other is not.

I'm not suggesting what Disney does is illegal; it's puffery.

However, what puffery does is raise customer expectations.

You started this discussion by posting: "for some reason when people are at WDW they think that they should be exempt and protected from any disappointment."

I'm stating that because of Disney's advertising, Disney is setting customer expectations extremely high. Because of this, I'm am suggesting that it's not surprising that some "think that they should be exempt and protected from any disappointment".

When I pay a Four Seasons price, I expect a Four Seasons level of service.

WDW is the most expensive theme park resort in the World. The customer has a reasonable expectation of being disappointed if Disney fails to deliver.

Again, this is not false advertising (a crime). It's puffery leading to customer "disappointment".

I've come to the realization that I just view WDW differently than some people here. To me- it's still the real world. I love the company, I think they're amazing at customer satisfaction, but I never expect everything to be "perfect" at every moment.. and I would never dream of asking for compensation for things that I've read in some threads here.

Atlantis uses the same "puffery". I'm not greeted by dolphins when I arrive, I have to pay (a lot) extra to have that as part of my experience, and I face way too long lines in the waterpark. I don't think "OMG THEY LIED!!" I understand the difference between an advertisement and reality.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Actually @ParentsOf4 , I have a good comparison. We leave on a NCL cruise over Thanksgiving. Norwegian's big advertising message is "Freestyle Cruising- doing things on your own time".

Awesome!, Right? Well here's the thing, for the last two weeks all of the "reservations" opened up.. reservations for dinner shows, shows, and for specialty restaurants (I purchased a specialty dining package). I booked every show/dinner that was on my list, but unfortunately a lot of times I wanted were already booked up.
Looking over my schedule I realized this was not "freestyle" at all, in fact- our schedule was way over scheduled.

I cancelled one show, cancelled the dining package (and all dining reservations except for a dinner show that wasn't included anyway), and am just going to take a chance and hope we can get last minute reservations on the ship- when we want, not booking 2 months prior.

Is their advertising 'misleading' or 'setting expectations too high'?.. maybe, the same as WDW, Atlantis, and so many others... but the thing is, you know this in advance once you get into the nitty gritty planning.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I've come to the realization that I just view WDW differently than some people here. To me- it's still the real world. I love the company, I think they're amazing at customer satisfaction, but I never expect everything to be "perfect" at every moment.
Great, you are explaining why YOU are not "disappointed" with WDW.

Again, you started this discussion by questioning how OTHERS could be disappointed.

I explained how OTHERS could be because price and advertising raise expectations.

You are not others. The reasoning you use to reach your non disappointment does not necessarily apply to others.

Understanding the difference is empathy, the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Relating this back to this thread, if there seems to be an excessive amount of negativity on this discussion forum, it's at least in some part because Disney raises expectations with pricing and advertising.
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
'84 no fast pass, just standby. They have a paper fast pass system, but you have to go to a kiosk near the ride to get them. They had a list of times of when to go get fast passes for each ride. Now they are trying a 10 a day Max pass system. They don't have magic bands and you cant reserve your FP times with a MDE app. You can rope drop, and do last hour times for mostly get on rides, otherwise you need to plan out your day hitting FP kiosks. You can easily spend 2 hours getting FP for all the rides. Standby sucks balls, because you can have a few thousand FP users hold up the line for an extra hour or two. Went in '08 on a Sunday with a coworker, before our two days of training at corporate HQ a few miles away. We b lined for Indianna Jones and had a 2.5 hour wait. A batch fo FP's go by line stalls, start moving, another batch of FP go, line stalls, them moves. She and I found the sheet with Kiosk times, hitt them and got FPs, but all the good ones are gone before noon.

Thanks for the info.
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
Some people complain about everything. I think this web site is much like a sports bar. You can go watch a football game, baseball, whatever and their is always the crowd who will comment on everything in usually a bad way. The hard core fans who notice all the details. You can watch a game as a causal watcher and everything is fine but the hard core all look at it differently. That guy is in a slump, that other guy is phoning it in, etc.

Personally I went from go to WDW 2 or 3 times a year to zero the last 2 years. Simple reason is Universal gives me more bang for the buck.

My first problem is the new fast pass system. I live 4 1/2 hours from WDW so I don't plan 180 days out. It literally means I get locked out of rides and restaurants but I gave up on the restaurants years ago. To much advanced planning, don't like that. Universal has none of that nonsense.

Hotels. Universal and WDW have many hotels but Universal gives you a lot more for the money. My favorite Universal hotel is the Portofino. All in $300 a night was what I paid last time. I compare that to The Wilderness Lodge a favorite of mine at WDW. Last stay there was $365. On WL. I rode up there and no doormen to be found, someone did get to me after some time. Universal, doormen waiting at the curb, "Welcome to the Portofino, may I unload your luggage" etc. Check in was quick and painless at Universal, maybe 2 minutes tops. WL was more like 10-12 minutes from an aloof guy who was wearing to much make up. Hands down the rooms at the Portofino are bigger better and in better shape. First thing I saw at WL when I opened the door was a thread bare carpet leading into the much smaller room then Universal. Daughter and son started laughing a minute later because the pressurized toilet when flushed sent the toilets contents flying up in the air over seat level. They thought the was the best thing ever, I did not. Of course after that the toilet ran continuously. I was hungry so I fixed the toilet instead of waiting forever for a repair guy. Noticed a nice patch in the ceiling, water leak. Horrible job fixing the dry wall. When I went to bed the mattress had a giant indentation where, seriously talking a sank in 4-6 inches. Wife and I rolled towards each other all night.

Service and rooms are better at Universal, period.

Ok who cares about all that, WDW is still nice if you book in advance and have low expectations for an expensive hotel room.

I'm in the minority but I think NFL did it's job and is a nice upgrade. If you have small children that's the part of MK you end up in and everything is geared that way. You can't take a Cedar Point coaster put it in FL throwing Peter Pan on top of it. Not what the crowd there wants or would even ride. Mine train could be longer but it's a very good family coaster. The new Dumbo set up is great as well.

Other then that, nothing has been built into rising attendance. Tickets go up, attendance goes up but nothing new really showed up. Look at DHS. They're now rebuilding half the park because it has always been half a park.

Finally something new went in AK but AK was a half day park. I always hit AK but it was lacking for years and still is.

Epcot? I'm not drinking around the world with children in tow. That means Epcot is basically two rides with huge waits and a good fire works show. Yes I have seen everything in Epcot and not impressed. Would you pay $100 to just go there for the day?

Universal is building left and right. Out with the old in with the new. New water park as well. All this within easy reach of the hotels, no long bus rides, boat rides or whatever else transport. Transportation is so much easier at Universal and more importantly quicker.

WDW needs to up their game and they are now but what people have a problem with is they needed to do it earlier. WDW should have been building into the crowd. One project a year would have worked. 4 parks, one new thing or remodel per year, 4 new attractions over 4 years wouldn't have killed Disney. 8 over 8 years. Instead they did nothing and now they are are trying to catch up on what they should have done.

People who know WDW do have valid complaints as too what management has been doing. As far as me I moved on till WDW completes all this stuff. If prices go up from here by much I probably won't be back because there is better bang for my buck out there. Been there done that, has become a tourist trap.

We've been to Universal and IOA and it was great! There's no denying that, but too bad they don't offer their own version of the Magic Express and not having to worry about your luggage. That is a pretty nice perk.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Great, you are explaining why YOU are not "disappointed" with WDW.

Again, you started this discussion by questioning how OTHERS could be disappointed.

I explained how OTHERS could be because price and advertising raise expectations.

You are not others. The reasoning you use to reach your non disappointment does not necessarily apply to others.

Understanding the difference is empathy, the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Relating this back to this thread, if there seems to be an excessive amount of negativity on this discussion forum, it's at least in some part because Disney raises expectations with pricing and advertising.

I don't have empathy for anyone who expects every moment of a day to be without the slightest disappointment just because they are on vacation.

I'm not saying that in a rude way. I'm saying it because it's unrealistic to set those kind of expectations on anyone or any place. When humans, technology, and machines are in play it's just not possible for every second of every moment to be perfect. A human brain shouldn't be swayed by advertising to think that it is possible.

I want to add that I do have empathy for certain disappointments, but I guess it's the "blame" that I think is so odd. Complaining and getting a FP because a kid was crying on the same ride that you were on? Or because you get stuck on a ride for a few minutes? Or it rained at a holiday party? I do think those people are setting themselves up for disappointment. Be annoyed, I get it..but anything more than an annoyance is something that I never knew existed until a year ago.
 
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Dave B

Well-Known Member
I always book on line. Have to say their web site is about as useful as Disney's. Both are bad.

The 3 ticket thing is bad I have to agree and rumor has it a fix is coming. Someone on here told me they aren't using the express pass system any more, your room card will be used as the express pass.

If you are complaining about a parking fee in one sentence then complaining about shuttles in another? Which one are you using? There are free shuttles on property? I assume you mean from the air port or do you mean there should be a free shuttle to and from WDW? ?
I have rented a car for the WDW part of the trip, I was going to return car to Airport and take an airport shuttle to Universal, thinking they must have something similar to Magical express? But nope, I have to pay to get from airport to Universal, just silly to me, if I want to return rental car to universal it is hundreds of dollars more to return the rental to a different location, so if I am flying in to Orlando I have to pay to get to Universal, just doesn't seem right after we are paying thousands of dollars to go to there resort, I have never traveled anywhere, where I could not get a free shuttle to the place I am staying at
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I have rented a car for the WDW part of the trip, I was going to return car to Airport and take an airport shuttle to Universal, thinking they must have something similar to Magical express? But nope, I have to pay to get from airport to Universal, just silly to me, if I want to return rental car to universal it is hundreds of dollars more to return the rental to a different location, so if I am flying in to Orlando I have to pay to get to Universal, just doesn't seem right after we are paying thousands of dollars to go to there resort, I have never traveled anywhere, where I could not get a free shuttle to the place I am staying at

Really? For me it's been the exact opposite. Which is a really neat perk at Disney.

If I were you I would just Uber if you don't need a car. Will be cheaper since you won't have to pay for parking.
 

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