MyMagic+ article from Fast Company magazine

[flynnibus]

And you just made my initial point. Since no one can answer with any truthfulness or accuracy about the exact number spent, there is no point in trying to state that it cost x dollars. That was really my whole point of breaking costs down to divisions.

Why? So you can get a number that doesn't really answer the real question?

Yes I have an answer... it doesn't tell you anything.. but I have an answer.

That's government work in a nutshell.

Plus.. you omitted your theories of 'don't count that' - because they'd do something like that eventually...
Plus.. you omitted the issue of what is paid for by another group...

You say this was your point.. I think you don't even have a consistent message in that point.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Why? So you can get a number that doesn't really answer the real question?

Yes I have an answer... it doesn't tell you anything.. but I have an answer.

That's government work in a nutshell.

Plus.. you omitted your theories of 'don't count that' - because they'd do something like that eventually...
Plus.. you omitted the issue of what is paid for by another group...

You say this was your point.. I think you don't even have a consistent message in that point.

Actually, your problem is that you are including items that were never part of MM+. According to the official WDW website, MM+ is FP+, MBs, and the MDE app. Nothing else. So that is why I say the other items should not be included. Remember, we aren't talking about the entire NextGen initiative here. That would include a lot of the other areas, but was outside the scope of the original article.

 

[flynnibus]

Actually, your problem is that you are including items that were never part of MM+. According to the official WDW website, MM+ is FP+, MBs, and the MDE app. Nothing else. So that is why I say the other items should not be included. Remember, we aren't talking about the entire NextGen initiative here. That would include a lot of the other areas, but was outside the scope of the original article.

Seriously.. do we really need to go and explain the difference between PR and how a business actually runs? The WDW website is advertising - it is not gospel of what the actual business is made up as. Here's another hint... you won't find the RCID website telling you Disney controls the leadership... but they do.

MM+ is the spawn of NextGen. RFID and single identity are the pillars of the MM+ experience. They didn't redesign the turnstyles or change all the hotel front-desks and lock systems by happy coincidence.

Up next... LuvtheGoof explains how Native Americans migrated out west out of curiosity... not relocation.

 

[Iwerks64]

I think it a bit disingenuous to add in every single cost of every single project as some have done to come up with the over $2 billion number. WDW desperately needed the WiFi additions and upgrades to not only the parks, but all of the resorts as well.

What about all of the servers that have had to be purchased for all sorts of reasons? Should they be included? I'm willing to bet that they were budgeted separately as well under just an IT budget.

One of the things that struck me when reading the article and thinking about the amount of discussion on how much Disney has spent on NGE/MM+ is the necessary infrastructure part. For all of the people that complain about the cost (and I admit I've shaken my head at the $2B+ numbers bandied about), would anyone nay-say adding parkwide/resortwide wi-fi, upgrading rooms to keyless entry, upgrading the Disneyworld website, upgrading merchandise points to tap-to-pay, upgrading and adding new servers, running the miles of cable necessary, etc.? All that alone seems like a $1B project for a property as large and complex as WDW. If they had just done this without all of the hoopla, would we be talking about it?

Anyway, my main point is that with so many disparate parts that now work together, and were probably purchased under different teams budget, it really isn't a stretch to see why Tom Staggs can say with a straight face to the board that MM+ was under it's $1b budget. I will absolutely concede that the rest of the additions/upgrades would easily top $1 billion at a resort so vast, but I just don't agree with adding it all together, since a lot of it was infrastructure additions/upgrades that they really needed anyway. JMHO as an IT person for almost 40 years.

I was just trying to reconcile both sides of the fence in my head after reading the article. I think we both agree on your point above.

 

[Iwerks64]

Uhh... now you're just closing one eye at a time to see only half the picture.

"put it in your budgets for next year" doesn't make the money just normal money.. That is still an increased budget that needs FUNDING from somewhere. They are all getting funding from a corporate initiative.. and all of that funding still comes from the same parent corporation. So it doesn't matter which side of the line you look at in terms of saying 'was it budgeted or not' - it was FUNDED and hence that's what you count.

And the source of funding is net profit from revenue. I don't believe Disney took out a loan to fund it, nor did the board of directors take out their checkbooks. Even if the disparate divisional and departmental budget pieces were all funded from a corporate initiative, all funds ultimately come from the same finite pot.

I've never been in the position to magically get an increased budget without having to cut somewhere else in the corporation to fund it. Even "put it in your budgets for next year" doesn't work as you still have to justify profitability based on the same general revenue stream and a run-rate history for your business with solid ROI numbers to justify the cost center reallocation. Especially in a public company. It is most definitely, as @flynnibus states, a shell game.

 

[flynnibus]

And the source of funding is net profit from revenue. I don't believe Disney took out a loan to fund it, nor did the board of directors take out their checkbooks. Even if the disparate divisional and departmental budget pieces were all funded from a corporate initiative, all funds ultimately come from the same finite pot.

Big corps like this have the ability to increase expenses without having to 'loans' because of the massive cash flow they generate and because they have liquid investment and credit assets as well. Going up to the board is part of that 'please fund us beyond our normal levels' ask. Different rules or guidance in each company in terms of what really requires board sign-off, and no idea what those are in TWDC.. but all the pots are funded by the mothership, and the mothership can try to balance by robbing from peter to pay paul, or agree to increase overall spending to avoid that as well.

TWDC has always 'disclosed' this activity is going on in terms of being a hit on their normal history of financials... but they can bury the details and mask them and still play within the rules in terms of how they expose and report the spend. They don't need to say exactly much they are spending on these individual components, and apparently none of the analysts or major shareholders are skeptical enough to hold them to the fire to give real detailed analysis. When profits are flowing.. scrutiny is low I guess.

I mean even when Disney does a major project like a park or a new cruise ship... we don't really get detailed allotments of the spend for that project. Just high level ball park numbers aimed to help steer the community to put the task in scale. MM+ is under the magnifying glass given its scale, ambition, and the contentious nature of trying to alter how the guests visit and experience the parks.

How much did people scrutinize the costs of the original FP or return time boards?? People are a lot more forgiving when they love the results

 

[Iwerks64]

Absolutely. I've had to go before the board and present my asks for major initiatives many times, but I always have a detailed plan that showed where the money would come from (cash reserves, liquid assets, restructuring) and a very clear (unassailable) business model that that showed the ultimate return on investment and step-function improvement in base financial metrics.

 

[DDLand]

In this topic we are not differentiating between what is capitalized vs ops. The topic is spend - not what will be deprecated or the color of the money. I know what you are saying in terms of orders of magnitude... but it's not about one element that cost $200 million or something... but rather 10,000 different things that all cost a sizable amount of money. You're talking about a program that has been going on for over 6 years.. touching nearly every park of a theme park operation that never sleeps.

The topic is simple - "how much did disney spend to bring this concept to market"
The answer is "You shouldn't trust the number anyway tells you as inclusive unless they are completely independent because you will pick and chose what to include or not depending on your biases. The only number that truly counts is the increase in the bottom line spend of the organization.. and even that isn't what they spent because of new costs being offset by costs they could abandon. It also doesn't account for opportunity costs of not doing other things."

The TL: DR - people should stop arguing over how much the program really costs... short of an auditor... we'll never know anything beyond rough orders of magnitude.

Alright, I see where that does get considerably more shaky as we move out of simple CapEx realm. If that's your focus, then it just gets way too murky to ever figure out.

I still think it's believable that 1 Billion was spent on CapEx. Totally within the realm of possibility. It's just the full rollout required increasing customer service representatives by several multiples, increasing IT budgets, and sending thousands of cast members to training. It's cost like those that inflate the ops spending extensively. It was those costs that started appearing on the radar over the last several years. It was launching the thing that did it. Just like there's a learning curve when opening a new attraction, there's also a learning curve with MyMagic. For example, Animal Kingdom struggled for a few years in refining the experience costing millions. Usually those costs aren't factored into construction. It's the same thing with MyMagic+, but I feel like some are trying to lump those costs in too.

If I asked "how much did disney spend to bring this concept to market" about Animal Kingdom it could be answered in two ways. Same with MyMagic+.

I do disagree with your take slightly on the big expenditures. Why should we equate something like the iPads to spending on some of their contractors where costs likely exceeded the latter by 40x? Proper perspective is important.

The only number that truly counts is the increase in the bottom line spend of the organization.. and even that isn't what they spent because of new costs being offset by costs they could abandon. It also doesn't account for opportunity costs of not doing other things."

Well said. Except many do feel like MyMagic has drained CapEx away from places it could've been better spent.

 

[ford91exploder]

Absolutely. I've had to go before the board and present my asks for major initiatives many times, but I always have a detailed plan that showed where the money would come from (cash reserves, liquid assets, restructuring) and a very clear (unassailable) business model that that showed the ultimate return on investment and step-function improvement in base financial metrics.

Same here I have to account for the TOTAL SPEND for the project irrespective of funding source, as well as the projected financial results from the project.

Lots of elaborate dancing on TWDC's part to bury the total spend on this project as well as its results

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Seriously.. do we really need to go and explain the difference between PR and how a business actually runs? The WDW website is advertising - it is not gospel of what the actual business is made up as. Here's another hint... you won't find the RCID website telling you Disney controls the leadership... but they do.

MM+ is the spawn of NextGen. RFID and single identity are the pillars of the MM+ experience. They didn't redesign the turnstyles or change all the hotel front-desks and lock systems by happy coincidence.

Up next... LuvtheGoof explains how Native Americans migrated out west out of curiosity... not relocation.

You're impossible, and now insulting. Good bye.

 

[flynnibus]

You're impossible, and now insulting. Good bye.

Yes... I broke my own rule of engaging with anyone with 'goof' in their name. The legacy holds true. Three strikes you're out.

 

[jakeman]

Yes... I broke my own rule of engaging with anyone with 'goof' in their name. The legacy holds true. Three strikes you're out.

Attention everyone.

We have now entered the phase of the conversation where one party has disengaged and the conversation is over but flynn's pathological need for the last word trumps posting comprehension.

 

[marni1971]

"But the future of Disneyland will apparently not include MagicBands, a wristband that uses microchip technology to let guests use the bands in place of theme park tickets, hotel room keys and even credit cards. The wristbands debuted at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., in 2013.

Disneyland does not plan to offer the wristbands at the park anytime soon, said Mary Niven, vice president for Disneyland Park.

She said the wristband won't work with Disneyland's guest demographics. Many visitors are local residents who do not stay for long periods at the nearby hotels, where the bands would be used heavily"

 

[englanddg]

"But the future of Disneyland will apparently not include MagicBands, a wristband that uses microchip technology to let guests use the bands in place of theme park tickets, hotel room keys and even credit cards. The wristbands debuted at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., in 2013.

Disneyland does not plan to offer the wristbands at the park anytime soon, said Mary Niven, vice president for Disneyland Park.

She said the wristband won't work with Disneyland's guest demographics. Many visitors are local residents who do not stay for long periods at the nearby hotels, where the bands would be used heavily"

Since you copy and pasted from another thread, so will I <grin>

DCL is the next best place for it to go...but that said, I don't see why it wouldn't work well at Disneyland, outside of the fact they prefer their multiple ID and picture ticket system they have now (unless you are AP)...

I give it 5 years or less, and MBs and FP+ and the whole lot will be out there...this is damage control to keep the more rabid fans at bay (this is a wdw centric forum, and if you think WE get rabid about things, you've never seen Disneyland fans riled up)...

 

[marni1971]

and if you think WE get rabid about things, you've never seen Disneyland fans riled up)...

Which is why they wouldn't dare impose it on the west coast.

 

[englanddg]

Which is why they wouldn't dare impose it on the west coast.

It will come.

I don't think it was developed for anything other than the OneDisney initiative.

The websites are already well on their way to being integrated. They started with UI, the next step are the back end systems. There's an internal synergy (and frankly logic) to this that even the most rabid Disneyland group of fans (though they are WAY more vocal than WDW fans) can keep from happening.

As I said, DCL makes the next best sense to me, as it would be really nice to be on the ship and not have to worry about a card, etc...

Then the foreign parks.

Last will be Disneyland and Disneyland Tokyo (cause they have to convince the managing company that it's a solid investment.

5 years, maybe 10. It is coming. It's done. And, it's not that bad.

 

[marni1971]

Not wishing to start another MM argument. Bowing out.

 

[englanddg]

Not wishing to start another MM argument. Bowing out.

Agreed.

Can we argue about Frozen instead? That's always more fun. <grin>

 

[marni1971]

Agreed.

Can we argue about Frozen instead? That's always more fun. <grin>

Oh please.

Just let it go.

 

[englanddg]

Oh please.

Just let it go.

But come on!

It's the first time in forever we've broached the subject!