Muppets

[AEfx]

And you know if the new ABC series becomes a hit...

Admittedly, I haven't followed the project that closely as so many Muppet TV projects have failed to materialize, but I certainly can't wait to watch it. The last I heard it was a return to the old Muppet Show, which is precisely what should have been done to begin with.

The Disney of 2015 seems to realize that the "Disney-fied" effect they have been so identified with was very limiting, creatively and more importantly financially. That's when when some Star Wars fans cried out after the purchase "Now We'll Have Darth Vader Dancing with Disney Characters!!! END OF WORLD!" it was a laugh. Not only because he had been doing it for quite some time already, but because with Marvel they showed an entirely different philosophy than they had in the past about acquisitions or requisitions (even back to Walt's day in using Grimm's Fairy Tales).

That works to some extent, particularly in the case of how Disney reinterpreted classic stories for new centuries, but it's worked much less well when reinventing more recent characters and concepts for new generations.

I do think it's criminal they have not been more exploited in the parks - if any characters were born for animatronics, it was the Muppets. That, and the fact that he would have retained creative control (with his 15 year contract for his services) is a big reason Henson was going to sell to them in the first place (the other half was that he was a broken man after Dark Crystal/Labyrinth and just wanted nothing to do with money or financing again, which is what finally killed him).

That's why I hold out hope that at least the Broadway show finally happens. These characters need to be on stage, and the TV show has the chance to restore some of their former glory, but seeing them live is what would bring them to the next level. It's was always their destiny and would really show them in their ultimate form.

 

[AEfx]

You and your "beloved" felt icons have certainly found your audience. Pity there weren't enough to keep the last movie from flopping, but oh well.

Yup. You are just rationally explaining the facts of the Muppets failures. You have no personal feelings about it whatsoever. You take no pleasure or gratification from demeaning or insulting them.

You've convinced me, again.

I swear, you could sell a religion you are so persuasive.

 

[Magenta Panther]

[

Oh dude lighten up, LOL.

Despite your presumption, there is nothing to rebut.

Disney has horribly mismanaged the Muppets. They did what Disney always is accused of doing, they "Disney-fied" them, completely ignored the core of their appeal. They treated them just like they would any other characters by trying to fit them in all kinds of different molds because they are used to more generic characters who can be just inserted into anything, when the key to the Muppets was actually their subversive nature and the fact they were not like traditional Disney characters. That was the core of their entire being - the imperfection and contrast to creamy smooth shiny virginal Disney characters.

There is no argument that they have performed poorly compared to the possibilities or expectations.

I do think the purchase was a valuable lesson for Disney - I don't for a moment think that how Disney has handled Marvel, and now Star Wars, isn't highly influenced by what they have done to the Muppets. "We don't want another Muppets" is reflected very directly in their hands-off creative nature and particularly with Star Wars their preservation of the authenticity of what the fans loved about the franchise to begin with.

Snipped the rest of your post, since it's just pseudo-psychobabble, and snore.

Disney has horribly mismanaged the Muppets? By buying them and hence rescuing them from fading into obscurity? By spending oodles of cash giving them an online presence, by financing two movies, and producing specials and putting them on talk shows and stuff? What the heck else could they have done?

I think you've got the baggage, dude, if you're blaming Disney for those puppets' lackluster performance. "Creamy smooth shiny virginal Disney characters"? THIS is what you think of what Disney produces? You sure you're on the right message board?

Yeah, I listed all the times I was right, and yeah, rubbing it into certain faces around here was great. Got a kick out of it. And for the record, the Muppets have never done anything to me, except to fail to entertain me, except when I'm using them to snark with. Now, have we taken up enough bandwidth beating a dead frog, or shall we continue? Your move.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Yup. You are just rationally explaining the facts of the Muppets failures. You have no personal feelings about it whatsoever. You take no pleasure or gratification from demeaning or insulting them.

You've convinced me, again.

I swear, you could sell a religion you are so persuasive.

"There are none so blind, as those who will not see".

 

[Magenta Panther]

He's very much the Fozzie to our Waldorf & Statler, isn't he?

My picture above does bring up a point he neglected- if the Muppets are so "done", why does Lipton use them in advertising campaigns?

It was a cross-promotion used to help sell DVDs of their flop movie.

Bet it didn't sell much tea either.

Understand? Good boy.

 

[Matt_Black]

Bet it didn't sell much tea either.

Any hard numbers to back that claim up?

 

[majortom1981]

Don't bash the muppets and them advertising products. Jim henson originally created the muppets for advertising. In 2007 Mrs Henson toured to 5 states for this 3 day event about jim,the muppets and some of his oscar winning short films. They showed how kermit and the others came to be. It was originally for commercials. Also I MRS henson how Jim would have felt about Disney buying the muppets. She said jim Said he wanted Disney to have them if he couldnt.

 

[Brer Panther]

1. Remember when the puppets starred in a holiday special with Lady Gaga and RuPaul, and I said what a stupid idea that was and why would anyone want to watch such a thing, and some of you guys jumped on me for that, and then the special aired and was a spectacular flop? That was Magenta Panther 1, Muppets 0.

2. Remember when the second Muppets film came out and bombed worldwide? That was Magenta Panther 2, Muppets 0.

I think the Lady Gaga special bombed because people don't like Lady Gaga, not because they don't like the Muppets.

 

[Kman101]

But did anyone REALLY expect that Muppets special to bring in hordes and hordes of viewers? No.

And if it were a failure why would ABC be launching a television series with the Muppets. If they were truly "failures" why would Disney continue to make movies with them? I'm not getting into this ridiculous debate but come on ... the same old argument time and time again. It's tired.

 

[Wikkler]

I'm going to be the first to say that I am a fan of the Muppets but could understand how someone wouldn't like them in the parks. I disagree about Muppets in the parks but I respect your opinion.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

I had said that we should agree to disagree, but...

Later, baby.

Now I see how mature you want to be in this conversation.

 

[Tigger1988]

Any hard numbers to back that claim up?

Considering the Lipton ads are still airing to this day, well beyond the movie release, I'd say they're performing just fine.

Magenta is just unhinged.

 

[Brer Panther]

And besides, Muppets Most Wanted wasn't even that good of a movie.

 

[Kman101]

And besides, Muppets Most Wanted wasn't even that good of a movie.

I haven't seen it, honestly, but was it any worse or better than Muppets in Space or Treasure Island? LOL.

I think the Muppets meet the expectations Disney sets. It's not a high bar but they do just fine. Sorry Magenta seems so against them. It's a very weird and hard stance. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it comes off like an obsession.

 

[Kman101]

And I want to point out, The Muppets are getting major buzz above a lot of things this fall TV season. The interest is there, it's just what they do with them.

 

[Mike S]

I haven't seen it, honestly, but was it any worse or better than Muppets in Space or Treasure Island? LOL.

I think the Muppets meet the expectations Disney sets. It's not a high bar but they do just fine. Sorry Magenta seems so against them. It's a very weird and hard stance. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it comes off like an obsession.

Ow, my childhood.......

 

[Kman101]

Ow, my childhood.......

LOL. I know. I'm not hating on them but to me, Muppets Most Wanted seems like head and shoulders above them. I'm surprised people dislike it so much, what exactly was wrong with it? Like I said, I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Wikkler]

Maybe if I looked at it as being an example of high camp, I would enjoy it more. But I don't think it was meant to be campy. It was supposed to be adventurous because, you know, Adventureland.

Just for fun, let's go on a magical adventure through the magical history of THE JUNGLE CRUISE!

Walt wanted a Jungle Cruise at Disneyland, one with real animals. He was swiftly informed that, of course, that it was extremely impractical. So mechanical animals were plopped where Walt wanted real elephants. For the first eight years at Disneyland, the Jungle Cruise had a serious attitude. In the early sixties Marc Davis decided to add humor and whimsy. So he did. The skippers decided to do the same with their formerly educational spiel.

Read my source right here: Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4

 

[Mike S]

LOL. I know. I'm not hating on them but to me, Muppets Most Wanted seems like head and shoulders above them. I'm surprised people dislike it so much, what exactly was wrong with it? Like I said, I haven't seen it yet.

I haven't seen it either.

 

[Brer Panther]

I'm surprised people dislike it so much, what exactly was wrong with it? Like I said, I haven't seen it yet.

You know that cliché where the bad guy steals the main character's identity and despite the fact that he doesn't act nor sound like him everybody falls for it? The one that's been used in, like, every cartoon EVER? That's this movie.

And in response to whether or not this is worse than Muppets From Space, I'd say YES. At least Muppets From Space has its moments. Every joke in Muppets Most Wanted can be essentially summed up as "LOL THE MUPPETS ARE DUMB", "STEREOTYPES", "FOURTH WALL", and "THE MUPPETS HAVE NO FANS".

 

[Kman101]

You know that cliché where the bad guy steals the main character's identity and despite the fact that he doesn't act nor sound like him everybody falls for it? The one that's been used in, like, every cartoon EVER? That's this movie.

And in response to whether or not this is worse than Muppets From Space, I'd say YES. At least Muppets From Space has its moments. Every joke in Muppets Most Wanted can be essentially summed up as "LOL THE MUPPETS ARE DUMB", "STEREOTYPES", "FOURTH WALL", and "THE MUPPETS HAVE NO FANS".

Well, the plot itself of course leaves a *lot* to be desired and I'm not a fan of that type of plot. Probably why I haven't rushed to see the movie. But it's about what they do with it. If it's funny and entertaining, it *could* work. It's sort of a lazy premise though.

But I see what they were going for in the movie with the jokes, thanks to your post, so I can see why it likely didn't work.