Mr. Toad

[Krack]

Nostalgia is the drug that has built the company. Disney exists because hundreds of thousands of people are addicted to the experience they had as a youth and want their families (particularly children) to experience it as well. This creates a not-so-vicious cycle that makes the company billions of dollars a year for over half a century.

There are reasons why Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom are far and away the most popular theme parks in the continental United States and the others lag behind. The primary one is those two parks were able to establish deeply rooted nostalgia on multiple generations, where as the other parks either have not been around long enough yet (AK, DCA) or were screwed with before the nostalgia could take hold on enough people (EPCOT, DHS). It doesn't help that some where opened incomplete, either (AK, DCA, to a lesser extent DHS).

You don't like nostalgia? Too bad; it's the reason the parks exist (not to mention the animation division).

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Nostalgia is the drug that has built the company. Disney exists because hundreds of thousands of people are addicted to the experience they had as a youth and want their families (particularly children) to experience it as well. This creates a not-so-vicious cycle that makes the company billions of dollars a year for over half a century.

There are reasons why Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom are far and away the most popular theme parks in the continental United States and the others lag behind. The primary one is those two parks were able to establish deeply rooted nostalgia on multiple generations, where as the other parks either have not been around long enough yet (AK, DCA) or were screwed with before the nostalgia could take hold on enough people (EPCOT, DHS). It doesn't help that some where opened incomplete, either (AK, DCA, to a lesser extent DHS).

You don't like nostalgia? Too bad; it's the reason the parks exist (not to mention the animation division).

Agree. This is something society seems to lack which is nostalgia. Well, I wouldn't say all of society so much because Disney World gets 50 million visitors a year - at least. But there is something touching about the simplicity of nostalgia and this is much of what drives the Disney engine.

Excellent point! It goes a lot deeper. Toad was touched by the hand of Walt and that makes it extra special. There is a group of obsessive compulsive Disney lovers that cringe at the very thought of anything that Walt touched being removed or changed in any way. The Tiki Room, IASW, CoP, CBJ and Jungle Cruise are all great examples. These attractions are all way past their prime and should have been removed or replaced many years ago. But, they were touched by the hand of Walt so don’t you dare even suggest changing or removing them. As a result we’re stuck with the junk and Walt is rolling over in his grave.

I don't think Walt would be "rolling over in his grave" if he saw Disneyworld today. I think he'd like the mixture of nostalgia with the constant effort to improve the product. We aren't 100% sure how he'd feel, but I can say one thing we have proof that with Disneyland in 1955 he kept the rides the same until his death in 1966 meaning he didn't get "bored" with them and rapidly change them. So there is an 11 year span where he still loved having Toad, Peter Pan, Dumbo, etc. Before he died he blessed us with Small World, Pirates and Carousel of Progress. There is a reason attractions like this are beloved by so many people even to this day. There is that certain touch bestowed by Walt that made it even more special and that's no accident.

The best attractions since Walt has left us include the ones that try to mimic the magic and special touch Walt possessed. This leaves us with Haunted Mansion (not sure if that was in the beginning stages at Walt's death or not), Philharmagic, Country Bear Jamboree (Walt had a rough, rough sketch of this but not near what the final product was), Splash Mountain, One Man's Dream, Tower of Terror, American Adventure, Hall of Presidents and even Great Movie Ride. All of these attractions were manufactured by the company after Walt's death but you still feel his spirit in those attractions. This is what makes them, and the originals special.

It's attractions like Stitch, American Idol Experience where you don't feel that Disney touch. There are others of course too.

 

[WDWFigment]

Why do people like it? Simple answer, because it's gone. Think about it this way, most people look fondly on their teenage years. But when you ask those individuals whether they would wish to go back, most would say no because those years sucked. People over remember the good times while they erase the bad times.

I disagree. I could come up with a list of attractions that could disappear tomorrow and nobody would care (Stitch's Great Escape, most of Dinoland, Sounds Dangerous, etc). Alternatively, there are attractions that are gone for over a decade that people still remember fondly; Mr Toad, for whatever reason, is on that list.



... and, imho, this is the primary reason.

Excellent point! It goes a lot deeper. Toad was touched by the hand of Walt and that makes it extra special. There is a group of obsessive compulsive Disney lovers that cringe at the very thought of anything that Walt touched being removed or changed in any way. The Tiki Room, IASW, CoP, CBJ and Jungle Cruise are all great examples. These attractions are all way past their prime and should have been removed or replaced many years ago. But, they were touched by the hand of Walt so don’t you dare even suggest changing or removing them. As a result we’re stuck with the junk and Walt is rolling over in his grave.

Agree. This is something society seems to lack which is nostalgia. Well, I wouldn't say all of society so much because Disney World gets 50 million visitors a year - at least. But there is something touching about the simplicity of nostalgia and this is much of what drives the Disney engine.



I don't think Walt would be "rolling over in his grave" if he saw Disneyworld today. I think he'd like the mixture of nostalgia with the constant effort to improve the product. We aren't 100% sure how he'd feel, but I can say one thing we have proof that with Disneyland in 1955 he kept the rides the same until his death in 1966 meaning he didn't get "bored" with them and rapidly change them. So there is an 11 year span where he still loved having Toad, Peter Pan, Dumbo, etc. Before he died he blessed us with Small World, Pirates and Carousel of Progress. There is a reason attractions like this are beloved by so many people even to this day. There is that certain touch bestowed by Walt that made it even more special and that's no accident.

The best attractions since Walt has left us include the ones that try to mimic the magic and special touch Walt possessed. This leaves us with Haunted Mansion (not sure if that was in the beginning stages at Walt's death or not), Philharmagic, Country Bear Jamboree (Walt had a rough, rough sketch of this but not near what the final product was), Splash Mountain, One Man's Dream, Tower of Terror, American Adventure, Hall of Presidents and even Great Movie Ride. All of these attractions were manufactured by the company after Walt's death but you still feel his spirit in those attractions. This is what makes them, and the originals special.

It's attractions like Stitch, American Idol Experience where you don't feel that Disney touch. There are others of course too.

I'll gladly concede that I'm one of the (seemingly few) people who loves Carousel of Progress and Country Bear Jamboree. I'd like to think that it's because of their substantive quality and not merely because of my nostalgia for the attractions, but I do realize nostalgia plays a part. I recognize that both attractions have their flaws, execution-wise, but I think the substance (the biting wit, characters, and humor more than compensate).

Based on what I just stated above, it would seem easy for me to categorize Mr. Toad with the above-attractions. After all, it's definitely witting and has an engaging storyline and characters, albeit with some flaws execution-wise. However, I think those flaws are far greater with Toad to the point where the attraction, as-is, does not belong in a Disney theme park. It's essentially a beefed-up version of an attraction that you'd find at a local amusement park or state fair. For me, it's just so low tech and dated that its time has come and gone. By contrast, you wouldn't find attractions of the scale or scope of CBJ or COP at a local amusement park. Perhaps I'm grasping at straws to make that distinction, but I think it's a valid one.

Believe me, I really wanted to like Mr. Toad. The facade, queue, and loading area are all pretty cool. I just think it could stand some updating if it's ever to be more than an attraction that people like because they "remember riding it as a kid."

 

[MrsWhiffo]

It wasnt an insult just a suggestion, and as I didn't quote you why would you think I am aiming the comment at you? :shrug:

I am totally making Toad for dinner tonight now!!

 

[Walt Disney1955]

I'll gladly concede that I'm one of the (seemingly few) people who loves Carousel of Progress and Country Bear Jamboree. I'd like to think that it's because of their substantive quality and not merely because of my nostalgia for the attractions, but I do realize nostalgia plays a part. I recognize that both attractions have their flaws, execution-wise, but I think the substance (the biting wit, characters, and humor more than compensate).

You are not alone. COP and CBJ both have a charm and wit to it that makes them subtly fine attractions. The added element of COP being at the 1964 World's Fair is just a bonus. I liked it when I was 10 years old and I knew nothing about the World's Fair

 

[Krack]

I'll gladly concede that I'm one of the (seemingly few) people who loves Carousel of Progress and Country Bear Jamboree. I'd like to think that it's because of their substantive quality and not merely because of my nostalgia for the attractions, but I do realize nostalgia plays a part. I recognize that both attractions have their flaws, execution-wise, but I think the substance (the biting wit, characters, and humor more than compensate).

Based on what I just stated above, it would seem easy for me to categorize Mr. Toad with the above-attractions. After all, it's definitely witting and has an engaging storyline and characters, albeit with some flaws execution-wise. However, I think those flaws are far greater with Toad to the point where the attraction, as-is, does not belong in a Disney theme park. It's essentially a beefed-up version of an attraction that you'd find at a local amusement park or state fair. For me, it's just so low tech and dated that its time has come and gone. By contrast, you wouldn't find attractions of the scale or scope of CBJ or COP at a local amusement park. Perhaps I'm grasping at straws to make that distinction, but I think it's a valid one.

Believe me, I really wanted to like Mr. Toad. The facade, queue, and loading area are all pretty cool. I just think it could stand some updating if it's ever to be more than an attraction that people like because they "remember riding it as a kid."

I think, that when approaching the discussion, most of us can probably reach consensus around the three part notion that ...

1. Nostalgia is different for everyone. What one person may love for often indescribable reasons will often be different than what other people love for indescribable reasons,
2. The whole purpose of the scale of the WDW resort was so that they'd never run out of room to build, and
3. There's no reason to remove or destroy older attractions when there is still plenty of room to expand instead (and keep the older attraction AND the new attraction).

I may not like the Country Bears. You may not like Mr Toad. Another person may not like Tom Sawyer's Island. And a fourth may hate the Treehouse. All that said, there's no smart long-term reason to get rid of any of them when there is miles of grass and trees in all directions surrounding the park(s).

 

[WDWFigment]

I think, that when approaching the discussion, most of us can probably reach consensus around the three part notion that ...

1. Nostalgia is different for everyone. What one person may love for often indescribable reasons will often be different than what other people love for indescribable reasons,
2. The whole purpose of the scale of the WDW resort was so that they'd never run out of room to build, and
3. There's no reason to remove or destroy older attractions when there is still plenty of room to expand instead (and keep the older attraction AND the new attraction).

I may not like the Country Bears. You may not like Mr Toad. Another person may not like Tom Sawyer's Island. And a fourth may hate the Treehouse. All that said, there's no smart long-term reason to get rid of any of them when there is miles of grass and trees in all directions surrounding the park(s).

I agree with points one and two, but not point three. The problem is, it assumes that there isn't any cost beyond building the attractions. That's not the case. Maintenance and staffing the attractions also costs money. Thus, if there is no need for additional capacity OR if the attraction is no longer popular, there is a reason to remove or destroy the attraction if favor of a new one.

In the case of Mr. Toad, since it's in the Magic Kingdom, which obviously has a need for increased capacity (right now at least), I agree. Pooh should have been built elsewhere and Mr. Toad should have been left alone. (Well, I think it should have been technically plussed, but reasonable minds can differ on that.)

 

[Krack]

Thus, if there is no need for additional capacity OR if the attraction is no longer popular, there is a reason to remove or destroy the attraction if favor of a new one.

... then so long COP; it's arguably the least attended attraction in the park.

 

[WDWFigment]

... then so long COP; it's arguably the least attended attraction in the park.

If true, and I fear that might it might be, then I think that probably would be a compelling justification to eliminate the attraction.

 

[AEfx]

Easy answer...
Toad was simple, basic, low-tech and extremely fun. Plus you got to go to hell at the end.:fork:
What's not to like?

That just about sums it up

 

[raiden]

Ichabod and Wind in the willows was a favorite of mine growing up and still is. I loved the dueling toads in WDW and also enjoy the DLR solo toad as well. Nostagic.

I also enjoy CBJ and COP :wave:

 

[Prototype82]

Something about it. Even though it was simple. It was witty and fun. I miss it but I believe in change for the better.

 

[cl_x_4]

I agree - Mr Toad was one of my favorites and I am sad that I never will get to share the thrill of driving with my kids. And like many the reason it was one of my favorites was because of how I remember it... If I were to have gone on it as a teen for the first time or an adult, I'm sure that my experience would have been much different. I will say that because of my affection for the ride - I visit the pet cemetary at HM to see Mr Toad's head stone and when I do ride Pooh - I always turn to see Mr Toad handing the deed to owl.

 

[surfsupdon]

As a little kid, my sister and I really thought that we were driving the car!!

It was a frantic, fast paced(seemingly) ride with lots of zigzags, turns, and nonesense. You'd see other cars throughout the ride, and your car would slam through a bunch of trap doors in each room. It was great fun!!

We also always make a point to see the Toad gravestone at the Haunted Mansion. Lots of fun.

I miss the ride, it was classic.

 

[Bairstow]

I think one major reason behind all the nostalgia behind Toad was the fact that it was the rare occasion when Disney advertised a ride closure before it happened and a bunch of rabid fans came to the park to protest. This was the first attraction to close in the age of internet fandom. That was all pretty hilarious, but at the same time nonsensical, given that it was directly across from the old 20,000 leagues site, which was a far and away a more impressive attraction.

I rode Toad several times as a kid but the only thing I can really remember about it is that there was never a line to get on it.

 

[AEfx]

I agree - Mr Toad was one of my favorites and I am sad that I never will get to share the thrill of driving with my kids. And like many the reason it was one of my favorites was because of how I remember it... If I were to have gone on it as a teen for the first time or an adult, I'm sure that my experience would have been much different. I will say that because of my affection for the ride - I visit the pet cemetary at HM to see Mr Toad's head stone and when I do ride Pooh - I always turn to see Mr Toad handing the deed to owl.

It is still at Disneyland, so there is a chance if you can ever get them there. Plus, unlike our Fantasyland rides, the exterior is actually a facade of Mr. Toad's mansion. It's quite cool.


I think the most remarkable thing about Toad was what is probably the simplest Dark Ride effect ever - what amounted to a big flashlight being pointed at your face with the sound of a racing locomotive. It was extremely effective yet so simple you could recreate it in your home.

It was a neat ride, and it just didn't make sense to rip it out and put in Pooh when our Fantasyland already paled compared to other MK-style parks (notably Disneyland).

At least that latter part is being rectified with the FLE.

 

[ChrisFL]

It was extremely effective yet so simple you could recreate it in your home.

That's it! who's going to volunteer?

 

[Clever Name]

I think the most remarkable thing about Toad was what is probably the simplest Dark Ride effect ever - what amounted to a big flashlight being pointed at your face with the sound of a racing locomotive. It was extremely effective yet so simple you could recreate it in your home.

It was a neat ride, and it just didn't make sense to rip it out and put in Pooh when our Fantasyland already paled compared to other MK-style parks (notably Disneyland).

At least that latter part is being rectified with the FLE.

Test Track has the same effect with a truck.

The big problem with Toad is that it was a carny ride and poorly done for a fixed attraction. Lots of portable spook houses were much better.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The big problem with Toad is that it was a carny ride and poorly done for a fixed attraction. Lots of portable spook houses were much better.

Toad was deceptively simple, but a work of genius!


The best article ever written on Toad is from that fantastic blog, 'Passport to Dreams Old and New':

Is it possible that humans are simply hardwired in a way which, inevitably, certain tactile experiences are lasting because they’re essentially, innately appealing? Although much of the brilliance of Country Bears and America Sings, for example, is in their structure, they work because they are innovative variations on the time honored tradition of the proscenium arch. So, apparently, sitting still and moving your head from side to side to an effort to keep up with a show is innately appealing to the primordial ooze which we crawled out of. So, apparently, is sitting in a tiny car rattling down a dark rail waiting in mortal terror for the next bend in the track. Dark Rides have been popular for well over 100 years now, and possibly because they, moreso than the roller coaster or omnimover or anything else, most recall the dream state and the irrationality of our own collective unconscious. Great dark rides feel like the whole thing is totally out of control.

Is this why Mr. Toad works so well? Rather than being themed to riding through a jungle or a haunted house. Toad emphasizes the method of conveyance as the justification for the content, and the irrationality of the twists in the track are not because that’s what dark rides do, but because you’re a totally out of control amphibian riding a hot ticket to Hell. Form dictates content dictates form. And it increasingly seems like any way you cut it, Orlando Toad was a masterwork of a dark ride.

One example: while Toad Hall existed as only a few turns of the track in California, the Orlando version spread the setting out to its full potential. The two ride vehicles passed one another, headed off in apparently different directions, turned to almost collide, then shot off to their unique show sequences in the first room. While the left track very sensibly brought riders into a Trophy Room and Kitchen, the right track proceeded utterly illogically through the fireplace. It was the first of a seemingly endless number of utterly terrifying logical fallacies the attraction assaulted the riders with, who were always unsure if they’d push directly through an obstacle or simply “bounce” off it. Original Toad only tried this technique once – exiting Toad Hall – yet Orlando used it as the primary structuring element of the entire attraction.


Is this why the ride has stayed with so many so long? We all remember being young, turning that false wheel in a panic trying not to hit the library desk, the cow, and my god the suit of armor. Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride was the nearest to a totally irrational nightmare most young children got to experience in waking life, because the attraction offered a system of control – that wheel – which was utterly useless because no matter how much you turned it, the car would do exactly the opposite of what any sane person would want it to. This reached its’ apotheosis in the absurd but horrifying climax, where we were powerless to not go into the train tunnel and be killed. For all of the threats and shocks of Snow White, Toad was a masterclass in fatalism – I do not want to self destruct, but I have no choice.

http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/search/label/Mr. Toad's Wild Ride

 

[The Duck]

My first experience with Toad was in 1975. I was 13 and I wasn't familiar with the Disney version of "The Wind in the Willows", (although I vaguely remembered reading a chapter or two of the book when I was much younger). It wasn't until I was well into my 30's that I finally got to see "The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad" and much to my surprise, Mr. Toad did NOT get killed by a train and go to hell.:fork: :lol:. Anyhoo, I remember enjoying the ride but even as a 13 year old, I thought that the idea of running people down, getting killed and going to hell was a bit on the morbid side, especially for a Disney ride. While Pooh doesn't rate very high on the frantic-fun scale, I enjoy it more for what it is. A peaceful, relaxing journey with one of my fondest childhood memories.