Motorized scooter

[seabee1]

the rule of thumb should be that the person in the wheel chair waits off to the side, the rest of the party or atleast on the people should then join the back of the line. When the person in the party reachies the frount of the line then the person in the wheel chair should be able to board. no sooner. You are right, we had the same issue on more then one occassion last week where we are standing in line and people in the wheel chairs avoid the lines (especialy at the end of the night where there can be hundreds of people waiting.

Have you ever tried to board a full bus in a wheelchair? It is impossible. Not to mention that either way you are going to have to wait for the person to get on, and then possibly loose your seat because you may be sitting in the seats that need to fold up so a wheelchair can be strapped in. You know, I think people forget how easy they have it when they can just walk on and off buses or rides. The least we can do is let a person get onto a form of transportation safely and easily. I don't think you are going to die if you have to wait an extra 5 minutes. People who have never experienced what it is like to not be able to simply hop out of a seat or not be able to use stairs have no idea what it is to live that way and therefore should not be making thoughtless comments about it.

 

[wannab@dis]

karma people... just remember it will catch up to you. Be careful what you are annoyed by because you may be the one sitting in that chair one day.

My father would GLADLY trade his wheelchair and any supposed advantages with any of you able bodied people. :wave:

 

[seabee1]

Let me make my position clear. I agree that SOME people who use the scooters feel they are priviledged and there for ignore the fact that there was a mass of people in front of them waiting. And I don't feel that they should jump line. My husband is paralyzed and in a wheelchair and when we go we by no means feel that we should jump the line. However I am completely against having to move to the side just because we are in a wheelchair when I possibly could have been there before several people. We try extremely hard to make sure we are not being an inconvenience for anyone when we travel and it really gets me when people are so inconsiderate of my husband and our family, as well as others like us. Trust me, it is better for everyone if the wheelchair is on before you board, for several reasons. And if my husband had the choice he would STAND in line for an hour to board a bus, believe me. I apologize for my rant, I am usually quite light hearted here but this comment really made my blood boil. I hate it when people make comments when they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[seabee1]

karma people... just remember it will catch up to you. Be careful what you are annoyed by because you may be the one sitting in that chair one day.

My father would GLADLY trade his wheelchair and any supposed advantages with any of you able bodied people. :wave:

AMEN to that!

 

[Nemo14]

I don't think that the original post here was meant to criticize those in wheelchairs, and I think most of us have expressed that we do understand the hardships of having to use a chair. My MIL has to use one now, and my FIL also did.The complaint was about the use and abuse of the motorized scooters and the dangers they create to others.

 

[seabee1]

I don't think that the original post here was meant to criticize those in wheelchairs, and I think most of us have expressed that we do understand the hardships of having to use a chair. My MIL has to use one now, and my FIL also did.The complaint was about the use and abuse of the motorized scooters and the dangers they create to others.

I have been following this thread, and have completely agreed with about all of it. My post was in regards to rcapolete's comment on how it should be the rule that people in wheelchairs should move aside until all able bodies are gone.

I am in full agreement that the scooter situation is completely out of hand. Not only at Disney but everywhere. But, at Disney it is even more dangerous I feel because children are there walking around (as they should be) and it is become as dangerous as walking on a busy street full of cars. I personally think it is because once certain people get behind the power scooters they feel they have the right of way and everyone else should yeild to them. This is not the case however. Just because you are on wheels you should still act as you would if you were walking. In our personal life if we would stop or let someone go by normally then we do that even though we are now on wheels. It is just common curtiousy. It would be great if the powers that be could come up with a way of screening who gets these scooters.

 

[Nemo14]

I have been following this thread, and have completely agreed with about all of it. My post was in regards to rcapolete's comment on how it should be the rule that people in wheelchairs should move aside until all able bodies are gone.

I am in full agreement that the scooter situation is completely out of hand. Not only at Disney but everywhere. But, at Disney it is even more dangerous I feel because children are there walking around (as they should be) and it is become as dangerous as walking on a busy street full of cars. I personally think it is because once certain people get behind the power scooters they feel they have the right of way and everyone else should yeild to them. This is not the case however. Just because you are on wheels you should still act as you would if you were walking. In our personal life if we would stop or let someone go by normally then we do that even though we are now on wheels. It is just common curtiousy. It would be great if the powers that be could come up with a way of screening who gets these scooters.

That would be great, but pretty difficult to enforce. Disabilities are not always obvious, and in a business like Disney, the customer is always right. Unfortunately, the abuse of the system seems to make people less tolerant of those who are truly disabled.

 

[wedoada]

There have been a few threads recently about this topic and this is what I posted on one of them....I am sorry that this is a little long.

I work in the disability/ADA field and was talking to the US Department of Justice ADA office about this exact situation today. I also posted similar info on another post related to ECV Rental policies.

The American's with Disabilities Act (ADA) only requires businesses to accommodate PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES and it only prohibits a business from making "unreasonable" inquiries and then the key is that it must not be used to "exclude" People With Disabilities (PWD).

Disney and other businesses are not trying to exclude PWD, in fact they are trying to go out of their way to INCLUDE them. Providing Guest Assistance Cards, wheelchairs & ECV's is not required by the ADA so it is a specialized service specifically intended FOR PWD and as such a person would need to be a PWD to be eligible to receive those services.

Now a business still can't make "unreasonable" inquiries. I have bent legs and use a wheelchair...my disability is pretty obvious so there should be no need to ask. But if an otherwise healthy looking and acting person requested an ECV rental or assistance card, Guest Services COULD, if they chose to, ask if they had a disability. No medical records or detailed history just do they have a disability. DOJ actually even said a business could ask to see a disability parking placard or some other easily provided documentation.

There should be a clearly posted policy sign at Guest Services and maybe even a line in the paperwork or rental agreement stating that cards and rentals are intended only for PWD then if they were discovered as frauds later there may be some recourse. Obviously some people will still find a way to abuse the system.

I don't mean to imply that just documented PWD should get service. If someone has a legitimate problem fine. But the example in the ECV thread was three 20 something guys driving ECV's while they drank their way around the world at Epcot. These 3 were seen running from place to place and horsing around in the park. Now while they could...possibly...have some invisable disability how likely is it that all three had one and that they all still could run around and horse around and mix alcohol with whatever meds their disability might require ?

Maybe I don't think like other people but I worked in Law Enforcement for years and the only people who yelled about taking a polygraph usually had something to hide. (no flames please !) I guess I think the same way about this. If disney or anyone else wanted to provide a service especially for me and to get that service that would make my life easier they asked me to show my parking card or some other basic disability related information (short of medical records or xrays - LOL) then I would be the first in line to show it to them. They would be trying to help me and make sure the service was not abused. Why would I protest ?

Letting just anyone use services intended for people with disabilities is fine...but it is a business decision, a choice, and is not the fault of the ADA.

I would gladly loan my spare wheelchair to anyone who would like to try spending the day in one with me at WDW or anywhere else. Of course I would physically strap/duct tape you into it so that you couldn't just hop out when it became inconvenient, or you had to use the restroom or you wanted to hop on peter pan orone of the other rides that offer a transfer challenge !

I don't want pity, just equal access and I am thrilled that because of laws like the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) I now have to wait in line like everyone else. I am also the first to admit that there are jerks with disabilities who are rude, careless and feel as if they deserve preferential treatment but you know what, there are those same types walking around on legs that think people with disabilities should move aside and let the able-bodies through.

People with disabilities are like other protected classes (race, gender, age) with one major difference. Sometimes it takes an accommodation or other change to make sure that people with disabilities have equal access.

I'm sorry if some people are rude or if "normal" guests have to wait while we are safely loaded onto busses. But I don't enjoy being made a spectacle of or hearing the comments that some people say either. I dont like my kids hearing people say that they would kill themselves if they had to live in a wheelchair like me. I don't like pushing my wheelchair across a wet bathroom floor and PRAYING that it was just mopped. I don't like having to be carried on and off the airplane in front of my kids to get to my vacation spot and being dropped on more than one occassion.

Disability is the ONLY minority that ANYONE can join at a moments notice. You may not be black or a woman but one slip in the bath tub and you could be beside me in a chair waiting in line for the WDW bus. Just ask Christopher Reeves...no wait....you can't. He fell off a horse and became a quad and eventually died because of complications. by 2010 1 in 3 people in the USA will have a disability...better get used to us being around. :wave:

Thanks for listening

RandyW :king:

 

[joanna71985]

There have been a few threads recently about this topic and this is what I posted on one of them....I am sorry that this is a little long.




I would gladly loan my spare wheelchair to anyone who would like to try spending the day in one with me at WDW or anywhere else. Of course I would physically strap/duct tape you into it so that you couldn't just hop out when it became inconvenient, or you had to use the restroom or you wanted to hop on peter pan orone of the other rides that offer a transfer challenge !

I don't want pity, just equal access and I am thrilled that because of laws like the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) I now have to wait in line like everyone else. I am also the first to admit that there are jerks with disabilities who are rude, careless and feel as if they deserve preferential treatment but you know what, there are those same types walking around on legs that think people with disabilities should move aside and let the able-bodies through.

People with disabilities are like other protected classes (race, gender, age) with one major difference. Sometimes it takes an accommodation or other change to make sure that people with disabilities have equal access.

I'm sorry if some people are rude or if "normal" guests have to wait while we are safely loaded onto busses. But I don't enjoy being made a spectacle of or hearing the comments that some people say either. I dont like my kids hearing people say that they would kill themselves if they had to live in a wheelchair like me. I don't like pushing my wheelchair across a wet bathroom floor and PRAYING that it was just mopped. I don't like having to be carried on and off the airplane in front of my kids to get to my vacation spot and being dropped on more than one occassion.

Disability is the ONLY minority that ANYONE can join at a moments notice. You may not be black or a woman but one slip in the bath tub and you could be beside me in a chair waiting in line for the WDW bus. Just ask Christopher Reeves...no wait....you can't. He fell off a horse and became a quad and eventually died because of complications. by 2010 1 in 3 people in the USA will have a disability...better get used to us being around. :wave:

Thanks for listening

RandyW :king:

Those are some great points Randy. Thank you for posting them.

 

[tink rules]

Good point... and I think that they should be required to register them at the gate at each park so that Disney knows how many there are in there. If people had to stop and fill out papers, etc... the illigits wouldn't use them as much.

They could approach it in a guest services way... take care of these people with respect and dignity and those who have to use them for real reasons won't mind the extra effort.

I think the ones with the most to lose are the off site people who rent them to people.

 

[tink rules]

I just googled "ECV rental" and out of the first 30 entries, 22 mentioned either Walt Disney World or Disney Land.....

This is out of control....

 

[rcapolete]

Have you ever tried to board a full bus in a wheelchair? It is impossible. Not to mention that either way you are going to have to wait for the person to get on, and then possibly loose your seat because you may be sitting in the seats that need to fold up so a wheelchair can be strapped in. You know, I think people forget how easy they have it when they can just walk on and off buses or rides. The least we can do is let a person get onto a form of transportation safely and easily. I don't think you are going to die if you have to wait an extra 5 minutes. People who have never experienced what it is like to not be able to simply hop out of a seat or not be able to use stairs have no idea what it is to live that way and therefore should not be making thoughtless comments about it.

no lets not forget how it is to have two small kids who want to go back to the pool and swim and do not understand why it is taking so long. I again feel bad for people who have t use a wheel chiar cause of a dispibilty but it should not give them a reason to cut a line that i had to stand in for almost an hour (not 5 extra mintures) when they just rolled up and there are nuerous people who are able body in their party and they also cut the line. Again i am only stating that the person in the wheel chair should have to wait off to the side for their party to make it to the front of the line. I am sure that the bus driver can tell when a person would get on the us and ensure that the wheel chair is loaded on first when the party is going to make the bus, but no reason for sizx peopel let say to get on the bus ahead of everyone else because someone in their party may or may not realy need the scooter that they are in.

 

[tink rules]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by wedoada
There have been a few threads recently about this topic and this is what I posted on one of them....I am sorry that this is a little long.




I would gladly loan my spare wheelchair to anyone who would like to try spending the day in one with me at WDW or anywhere else. Of course I would physically strap/duct tape you into it so that you couldn't just hop out when it became inconvenient, or you had to use the restroom or you wanted to hop on peter pan orone of the other rides that offer a transfer challenge !

I don't want pity, just equal access and I am thrilled that because of laws like the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) I now have to wait in line like everyone else. I am also the first to admit that there are jerks with disabilities who are rude, careless and feel as if they deserve preferential treatment but you know what, there are those same types walking around on legs that think people with disabilities should move aside and let the able-bodies through.

People with disabilities are like other protected classes (race, gender, age) with one major difference. Sometimes it takes an accommodation or other change to make sure that people with disabilities have equal access.

I'm sorry if some people are rude or if "normal" guests have to wait while we are safely loaded onto busses. But I don't enjoy being made a spectacle of or hearing the comments that some people say either. I dont like my kids hearing people say that they would kill themselves if they had to live in a wheelchair like me. I don't like pushing my wheelchair across a wet bathroom floor and PRAYING that it was just mopped. I don't like having to be carried on and off the airplane in front of my kids to get to my vacation spot and being dropped on more than one occassion.

Disability is the ONLY minority that ANYONE can join at a moments notice. You may not be black or a woman but one slip in the bath tub and you could be beside me in a chair waiting in line for the WDW bus. Just ask Christopher Reeves...no wait....you can't. He fell off a horse and became a quad and eventually died because of complications. by 2010 1 in 3 people in the USA will have a disability...better get used to us being around. :wave:

Thanks for listening

RandyW :king:
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Randy...

I think that I can say, like most people, that no one would ever want anyone to experience a disability like that one.

I too have a disability, although it is in my neck and my arms. I have nerve damage and if I needed it, I could have gotten a handicapped license plate. I have not because I am still able to walk without too much strain. I am fortunate that my disability is only so limiting. It's debilitating at times, but my limits are manageable and I do the best I can.

I too have gone through many tough times with people because my disability is mostly invisible. I look fine, but I'm in pain 24/7. You are right... All it took was a split second decision on someone elses part to cause a car accident and my life changed in a split second.

It is for that reason that I hope for your sake and those that who truely need it, WDW adopts some type of legitimate program to help those who need it. It saddens me to know that many of those people who do take advantage of the ECV's, etc do not need them, while those who do need assistance may be unable to get it.

I think that they have a problem on their hands and something needs to be done before the people who do need help, get shut out.

Thanks for listening...

 

[rcapolete]

I don't think that the original post here was meant to criticize those in wheelchairs, and I think most of us have expressed that we do understand the hardships of having to use a chair. My MIL has to use one now, and my FIL also did.The complaint was about the use and abuse of the motorized scooters and the dangers they create to others.

thank you that was my original point and i have seem to have to defend this point all along. I have no problem with the people who truely need them. I understand that people would trade their chairs to be able to walk again that is not my complaint and i wish people would understand this. This started because a person who either had no idea how to use the scooter or did not care about the outcome of his reckless drive wqould cause hit my son causing him a bloody lip a bump on his head as well as nukerous other bruises and basically ruin a week at WDW becuase he was scared of being hurt the rest of the time and would not leave my wife's or my side.

 

[tink rules]

no lets not forget how it is to have two small kids who want to go back to the pool and swim and do not understand why it is taking so long. I again feel bad for people who have t use a wheel chiar cause of a dispibilty but it should not give them a reason to cut a line that i had to stand in for almost an hour (not 5 extra mintures) when they just rolled up and there are nuerous people who are able body in their party and they also cut the line. Again i am only stating that the person in the wheel chair should have to wait off to the side for their party to make it to the front of the line. I am sure that the bus driver can tell when a person would get on the us and ensure that the wheel chair is loaded on first when the party is going to make the bus, but no reason for sizx peopel let say to get on the bus ahead of everyone else because someone in their party may or may not realy need the scooter that they are in.

Randy...

I think you have your candidate for the day in the wheelchair....

No... maybe it's not nice for the world to butt in on your swim time with your kids, but perhaps you should teach your children that they are blessed to have healthy parents to stand in line with them....

 

[seabee1]

no lets not forget how it is to have two small kids who want to go back to the pool and swim and do not understand why it is taking so long. I again feel bad for people who have t use a wheel chiar cause of a dispibilty but it should not give them a reason to cut a line that i had to stand in for almost an hour (not 5 extra mintures) when they just rolled up and there are nuerous people who are able body in their party and they also cut the line. Again i am only stating that the person in the wheel chair should have to wait off to the side for their party to make it to the front of the line. I am sure that the bus driver can tell when a person would get on the us and ensure that the wheel chair is loaded on first when the party is going to make the bus, but no reason for sizx peopel let say to get on the bus ahead of everyone else because someone in their party may or may not realy need the scooter that they are in.

I didn't say that we should jump a huge group of people. I said that those that are curtious should not be punished because of some rude people who feel they are priviledged to jump line. I am just saying you can't group people together like that. People cut in front of us all the time figuring they can because my husband will wait. I don't say that all people should part ways and let wheelchairs through.

As for your kids. I have two young kids as well that enjoy a refreshing dip in the pool. I tell them you wait your turn. But I am not going to make them wait so that you and your family can get on with your vacation, while we stand idley by. I don't think so.

As for what happened to you on your vacation, that is the bus drivers responsiblity to say, hey wait, there were several people(including wheelchairs)before you. I don't think that all of us need to suffer because of a few pushy people. You apparently didn't read everything that I posted. Because I stated that I agreed with the fact that scooters are running rampid, and it needs to be controled. However, it is not all us wheelchair people's fault, and we should not be grouped as such.

Lastly, I don't want you to feel bad about us with disabilities. I don't want pitty. I would like however a little understanding. Lets not forget the men and women who are fighting right now for our country. Lots of them(me) will be injured and permantly disabled. Do you think it is that hard to let a man or women that has fought for you and your kids so that they can safely go enjoy that pool they can't wait to get to, to maybe safely get on a bus and enjoy time with his or her family? Think about that. You may want to get use to us being around, because there are going to a lot more coming home just like me. And I think they deserve a little more then "move over to the side, my family wants to swim."

 

[rcapolete]

I didn't say that we should jump a huge group of people. I said that those that are curtious should not be punished because of some rude people who feel they are priviledged to jump line. I am just saying you can't group people together like that. People cut in front of us all the time figuring they can because my husband will wait. I don't say that all people should part ways and let wheelchairs through.

As for your kids. I have two young kids as well that enjoy a refreshing dip in the pool. I tell them you wait your turn. But I am not going to make them wait so that you and your family can get on with your vacation, while we stand idley by. I don't think so.

As for what happened to you on your vacation, that is the bus drivers responsiblity to say, hey wait, there were several people(including wheelchairs)before you. I don't think that all of us need to suffer because of a few pushy people. You apparently didn't read everything that I posted. Because I stated that I agreed with the fact that scooters are running rampid, and it needs to be controled. However, it is not all us wheelchair people's fault, and we should not be grouped as such.

Lastly, I don't want you to feel bad about us with disabilities. I don't want pitty. I would like however a little understanding. Lets not forget the men and women who are fighting right now for our country. Lots of them(me) will be injured and permantly disabled. Do you think it is that hard to let a man or women that has fought for you and your kids so that they can safely go enjoy that pool they can't wait to get to, to maybe safely get on a bus and enjoy time with his or her family? Think about that. You may want to get use to us being around, because there are going to a lot more coming home just like me. And I think they deserve a little more then "move over to the side, my family wants to swim."

Ok in my opinion and i am not trying to be rude it seems you missed my point so i will restate it
"Again i am only stating that the person in the wheel chair should have to wait off to the side for their party to make it to the front of the line" all i am saying is that the person in the wheel chair stays in the designated area (i know it is not possible to navigate the normal waiting area sometimes) while the rest of the party (or atleast one person) proceded to the back of the line. At the time that the person reach either the front or to a point where it is visible that they will make it on the next bus, then the wheel chair should be loaded on. i am not asking anyone to wait to the side while i get on with my vaction, but at the same time i don't find it fair that groups of people cut the line because one person is in the wheel chair and the drive allows them to load onto the next bus regardless of the line as a previous poster and myself both had happen.
It is not a matter of group all people together as it is pointing out the issue of the percentage that does in fact cut lines for this reason

 

[maggiegrace1]

no lets not forget how it is to have two small kids who want to go back to the pool and swim and do not understand why it is taking so long. .

How do you explain to them why it is taking so long ,when you are in line waiting for a ride? They are at WDW..they should be used to waiting in lines...

 

[wannab@dis]

Ok in my opinion and i am not trying to be rude it seems you missed my point so i will restate it
"Again i am only stating that the person in the wheel chair should have to wait off to the side for their party to make it to the front of the line" all i am saying is that the person in the wheel chair stays in the designated area (i know it is not possible to navigate the normal waiting area sometimes) while the rest of the party (or atleast one person) proceded to the back of the line. At the time that the person reach either the front or to a point where it is visible that they will make it on the next bus, then the wheel chair should be loaded on. i am not asking anyone to wait to the side while i get on with my vaction, but at the same time i don't find it fair that groups of people cut the line because one person is in the wheel chair and the drive allows them to load onto the next bus regardless of the line as a previous poster and myself both had happen.
It is not a matter of group all people together as it is pointing out the issue of the percentage that does in fact cut lines for this reason

Have you ever been to Disney with someone in a wheelchair? Even if you haven't, think a little before you start making these asinine suggestions. There's a simple reason that wheelchairs are given a seperate line for loading on the bus. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to load them in the method you are describing.

Wheelchairs need to be loaded first on the bus before it's packed full to standing room only. They have to lower the bus, help the person on, strap it in so it doesn't move and then reset the access platform. That can't be done with a full bus and needs to be done prior to loading of other passengers.

If you actually knew how things worked, you wouldn't be so quick to whine about this ONE situation. That person in the wheelchair probably waited longer to get to the parks than you did. Most bus routes include multiple resorts. If you're not at the first resort, you may not get on a bus that stops since it may already have seats full. They've actually called a bus to come directly to a resort because the resort my father was staying at was 3rd on the line. They watched multiple busses come and go.

There's more to this issue than you having to wait a few minutes. I hope you can teach your children to be more compassionate than you appear to be. :wave:

 

[MommytoMJM]

Also, while we may be first on the bus, we are also last off the bus.....

My daughter, best friend and I are all in WC, Power Chair and me in an ECV (until my power chair comes in) I have never hit anyone, nor has my best friend, but all three of us have been hit, run into, fallen onto (no joke, literally had people fall on top of us) cut in front of....and literally made to feel as if we are inconveniences......walk a mile in our shoes. Some of us would never be able to leave our homes if it weren't for the inventions of power chairs and ECV's....