More WDI Layoffs Planned?

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
The rumors of upcoming WDI layoffs is increasing, which could start up as early as this week. The latest info I got was that "a lot" to a "massive" amount of veteran Imagineers will be laid off. Corrus, hear anything?

*sigh*. . . We know this comes at the end of a time of growth (i.e. Hong Kong), but to see the power of WDI constantly reduced (and of course the poor results of that) and then this, well, it just makes it seem as though, if current policy continues, WDI may be much weaker in the future.

Big congrats to those Imagineers behind Disneyland's 50th (Parade, Remember), and Expedition Everest sounds amazing in the least. These people do great work.
 

Pongo

New Member
Is there even going to BE a WDI Department after these layoffs? Sheesh, it seems like all that happens in Disney is WDI layoffs.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
The very nature of Imagineering is that one works on a project by project basis based on their skills.

Very few people in Imagineering are the blue-sky big thinkers and overall planners. Tons of little jobs like scenic painters and costume desginers etc - who they dont have a place for when a specific job is over.

This is how the entertainment industry works, nothing more, nothing less.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
mousermerf said:
The very nature of Imagineering is that one works on a project by project basis based on their skills.

Very few people in Imagineering are the blue-sky big thinkers and overall planners. Tons of little jobs like scenic painters and costume desginers etc - who they dont have a place for when a specific job is over.

This is how the entertainment industry works, nothing more, nothing less.
A few years ago, the whole per-project status wasn't nearly as big as it is now. . . now it seems that it will dominate. . .
 

Woody13

New Member
General Grizz said:
A few years ago, the whole per-project status wasn't nearly as big as it is now. . . now it seems that it will dominate. . .
As it should. Outsource the jobs as needed. Having a huge in house staff of Imaginers is counter productive. Hire them as you need them.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
Again, people with the label "Imagineer" include jobs we typically wouldn't associate with the term. Think of it in art terms - an "artist" designs a mural, but it takes hundreds of painters to finish it. That's the comparison - artist versus artisan.
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
mousermerf said:
Again, people with the label "Imagineer" include jobs we typically wouldn't associate with the term. Think of it in art terms - an "artist" designs a mural, but it takes hundreds of painters to finish it. That's the comparison - artist versus artisan.

or a car designer versus a car assembler.
 

Woody13

New Member
mousermerf said:
Again, people with the label "Imagineer" include jobs we typically wouldn't associate with the term. Think of it in art terms - an "artist" designs a mural, but it takes hundreds of painters to finish it. That's the comparison - artist versus artisan.
Point taken. I think that Disney needs to continue to outsource both. They don't need a huge stable of "artists" on the payroll. Contracting out for these services is less expensive and they can demand and get higher quality. Disney has been very successful in this regard.
 

KevinPage

Well-Known Member
mousermerf said:
Again, people with the label "Imagineer" include jobs we typically wouldn't associate with the term. Think of it in art terms - an "artist" designs a mural, but it takes hundreds of painters to finish it. That's the comparison - artist versus artisan.


EXACTLY. When you hear that WDI is having layoffs, people get all worked up thinking it is the top creative minds who design and implement the big ideas Disney does. But it seems to be more of less the lower rung "grunts" who when hired know they won't be around indefinitely.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
mousermerf said:
Again, people with the label "Imagineer" include jobs we typically wouldn't associate with the term. Think of it in art terms - an "artist" designs a mural, but it takes hundreds of painters to finish it. That's the comparison - artist versus artisan.

VERY important point made there. When a lot of people hear the word Imagineer, they think of Tony Baxter, Marty Sklar, Tim Delaney, Joe Rhode etc. People then interpret posts like Grizz's to mean we are about to lose all of those legends of WDI.

Since a lot of the Disney Construction Company was merged with WDI, you have people who were accountants and PAs being labelled as Imagineers. It isnt quite the same ;) (not to take anything away from the people of course, they have an important role)

I would also point out this is only a RUMOR. It is not fact yet. Remember these types of rumors have come along MANY times before, with nothing coming of them.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
Steve... maybe this IS about the legendary folk at WDI.

Anyone own the "Imagineering" book? "Disneyland, Then Now and Forever?" How about the "Nickel Tour?" "A Brush With Disney?" "Walt's Time?" These works were written with the help of Disney author, Bruce Gordon.

Bruce joined Walt Disney Imagineering in 1980, and has contributed to a wide variety of projects at Epcot, Disneyland, Tokyo Disneyland, cyberspace and beyond.

Disney author, historian, creative force behind dozens of attractions and Project Director and Creative Developer for Walt Disney Imagineering.

...yeah, he was laid off.

===============

From Kevin Yee on MiceAge.com:

Imagineering Layoffs Continue

I've heard rumors in recent months that Imagineering management may have something up its sleeve: a long-term goal to prune the division to absolute, rock-bottom minimums. Meaning a few dozen administrators. This horrifying plan would see virtually all creative folks laid off by late 2005, with the idea to oversee projects with only one or two individuals, and outsource just about everything else.

You may think, based on that description, that it sounds like only the producers are safe, and that all other grunt work will be hired from outside. Well, think again. Just two weeks ago, Imagineering management laid off Senior Producer Bruce Gordon, the man directly and single-handedly responsible for the Nemo subs project at Disneyland. Everyone else wanted the subs gone, but Bruce persevered, and now we'll be getting his vision.

Sadly, he was taken off the project after it was green-lit, and anyone without projects at WDI is in danger of a falling ax.

It's hard to fathom. Bruce was a creative force (though not always the primary one) behind dozens of Disneyland attractions. He is the author of the most prominent Disneyland books. Since the death of his coauthor David Mumford, Bruce has become, together with Tony Baxter (who manages to still be employed, for now), the remaining custodian of Disneyland's history and legacy. Firing Bruce would be somewhat similar to firing Walt's brother Roy.

Why would you do such a thing? Even if it saved a few pennies?

Marty Sklar was there when Walt Disney Imagineering really took on steam, after starting at Disneyland in 1955. Marty knew Walt, and understood what Walt wanted back then. It's almost a moot point to ask what Walt would want now. But is this really what Marty himself now wants? To hollow out, eviscerate, and decimate his own division of the company? Is that the legacy of Marty Sklar? "He came, he saw, he took over Imagineering, and after a few decades he burned it."

Sklar's Scorched Earth may not yet be over. Those same rumors I've heard indicated layoffs in fits and starts, so that the mainstream media does not learn what's going on at the division. This might yet prove to be every bit as far-reaching as the layoffs in Feature Animation; a kind of "Dream on Silly Dreamer" moment for Imagineering. It happened over at Universal Creative a while back -- the outsourcing movement seems unstoppable. But to time the layoffs and space them out, so as to avoid such bad press, seems both wise from a marketing perspective and evil at the same time. Well, I'm here to watch as best I can. If the high-profile departures in recent years are joined by more and more such layoffs, I'll keep sounding that horn.

Silly dreamers indeed!"
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
maybe there were other problems with Bruce....

John Wayne Gacy made some great paintings of clowns......he too was a creative guy.....but there was that whole "serial killer" thing that kind of tarnsihed his image :lookaroun


gacypogo.jpg
 

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
speck76 said:
maybe there were other problems with Bruce....

John Wayne Gacy made some great paintings of clowns......he too was a creative guy.....but there was that whole "serial killer" thing that kind of tarnsihed his image :lookaroun


gacypogo.jpg
If you can provide any evidence of such, please do... otherwise, I would call this alarming and horrible news.


pop1.jpg


20000719-150148.jpg
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
General Grizz said:
If you can provide any evidence of such, please do... otherwise, I would call this alarming and horrible news.

Well, if he was layed off, it could be for other reasons besides "cut-backs"

Perhaps he took "early retirement", or was bought out........there is probably more to the story than you or Kevin Yee will ever know.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
Is it coincidence that it is occuring with the other layoffs? Let's see what happens this year.

Well, by then it might be too late.
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
General Grizz said:
Is it coincidence that it is occuring with the other layoffs? Let's see what happens this year.

Well, by then it might be too late.

he is also old.......do you still want to be working at his age?....some people like to have a few years of retirement before they die....
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
speck76 said:
maybe there were other problems with Bruce....

John Wayne Gacy made some great paintings of clowns......he too was a creative guy.....but there was that whole "serial killer" thing that kind of tarnsihed his image :lookaroun


gacypogo.jpg

How bad could he be? He loved children :D :lookaroun
 

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
speck76 said:
he is also old.......do you still want to be working at his age?....some people like to have a few years of retirement before they die....
Marty Sklar is much older. If he wanted to leave, he would.
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
General Grizz said:
Marty Sklar is much older. If he wanted to leave, he would.

regardless.....creative people are only effective for so long (I believe you once made a comment like this about Eisner)....perhaps his ideas no longer fit the direction that the company needs to take.
 

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