More offsite hotels to offer Extra Magic Hours and extended FastPass+ booking window

MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Don't forget that for FP jockeying, the Tier System and limitations to only one park for advanced FPs, mean that the competition is for just one FP per day. If you grab a FP for FEA, you can't also grab one for Soarin' or for any other Tier 1 in Epcot or for any other park for that day.

So, for each family group, the real competition is just for one very popular FP per day.

Also, these top tier E-Ticket rides are increasing their throughput. With the third tracks for Soarin' and TSMM, with FoP, SDD, MMRR, RotR, SW:SR, and everything else that's coming. There will be thousands of new FP slots available (what is the formula... 70% of the increased capacity for all these rides operating 10 hours a day?).

When the big three E's open up in DHS, I'm sure they'll all be Tier 1. And so, people at the 60 day mark can only grab one of them per day.

Also... while EMHs will be more crowded, they do have the effect of convincing some people not to go to the MK several times in one trip. It sorta pushes them away from the most crowded park.
 
winstongator

winstongator

Well-Known Member
seascape said:
Eventually WDW will have 50,000 rooms on property. With 3 people per room and 3 fast passes each that will total 450,000 fast passes a day. If the parks were open just 9 hours a day, that is 50,000 fast passes an hour. With 4 parks that is just 12,250 past passes per hour per park. Does anyone here doubt that each parks capacity is much higher than that small number? One last thing even with these new rooms having 60 access, there are still less than 35,000 rooms with 60 days fast pass plus.
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Go to more reasonable hours - 12 per day. 37,500. By that time you’ll have 6 more headlining attractions, but were exaggerating so let’s put total ride count at 60 x soon the every ride ina day will become impossible. Include meet and greets too as people use fp+ for them too. So 75 fp+ attractions. Say 1000 fp/hr and the on site guests are using half. Not quite so unreasonable. You could look at now, about 60 fp+ attractions, 12 hrs/day, 1000 fp+/hr is 720k fp+/day. 35k33=315k, still under half. The math that matters still involves much smaller numbers. There are only 3 attractions you currently can’t get for for 30 days out. That math is another comment.

EDIT: FoP is about 1k FP+/hr, 12hrs, 12,000 FP+ (about 1/3 of AK daily attendance). SDD is another 1k FP+/hr, so another 12,000. 7DMT is maybe another 1k FP+/hr. So you've got 36,000 most wanted FP+, and 105k guests. That has to drive some of the on-site/off-site calculation. When Galaxy's Edge opens, that will bump to 66,000, but there will still be more demand than supply. I think there will be people doing multiple days at DHS towards the end of their stays to get the SWGE FP+. I don't think they'll do full days at DHS and will likely hop to Epcot to fill those days. Add in Ratatouille, Guardians & Tron, and you are almost at every on-site guest getting a highly sought FP+. Some percentage of on-site guests don't want to do those rides, so the actual numbers are different, but estimates are sufficient for this exercise. There are plenty of FP+ overall to go around, but there is a scarcity of the most sought FP+.

The bigger question will be “will everyone visiting galaxys edge have one fp for smugglers run or rise of the resistance?” Say those rides are 1200fp/hr and the park is open 14 hrs a day, I think that answer is no. Even with extended hours many guests will not be able to ride both rides in one day. People will use two days of fp for HS.
 
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matt9112

matt9112

Well-Known Member
winstongator said:
Go to more reasonable hours - 12 per day. 37,500. By that time you’ll have 6 more headlining attractions, but were exaggerating so let’s put total ride count at 60 x soon the every ride ina day will become impossible. Include meet and greets too as people use fp+ for them too. So 75 fp+ attractions. Say 1000 fp/hr and the on site guests are using half. Not quite so unreasonable. You could look at now, about 60 fp+ attractions, 12 hrs/day, 1000 fp+/hr is 720k fp+/day. 35k33=315k, still under half. The math that matters still involves much smaller numbers. There are only 3 attractions you currently can’t get for for 30 days out. That math is another comment.

EDIT: FoP is about 1k FP+/hr, 12hrs, 12,000 FP+ (about 1/3 of AK daily attendance). SDD is another 1k FP+/hr, so another 12,000. 7DMT is maybe another 1k FP+/hr. So you've got 36,000 most wanted FP+, and 105k guests. That has to drive some of the on-site/off-site calculation. When Galaxy's Edge opens, that will bump to 66,000, but there will still be more demand than supply. I think there will be people doing multiple days at DHS towards the end of their stays to get the SWGE FP+. I don't think they'll do full days at DHS and will likely hop to Epcot to fill those days. Add in Ratatouille, Guardians & Tron, and you are almost at every on-site guest getting a highly sought FP+. Some percentage of on-site guests don't want to do those rides, so the actual numbers are different, but estimates are sufficient for this exercise. There are plenty of FP+ overall to go around, but there is a scarcity of the most sought FP+.

The bigger question will be “will everyone visiting galaxys edge have one fp for smugglers run or rise of the resistance?” Say those rides are 1200fp/hr and the park is open 14 hrs a day, I think that answer is no. Even with extended hours many guests will not be able to ride both rides in one day. People will use two days of fp for HS.
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why is it acceptable to ride one attraction and than spend the other 10 hours in line....
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Lensman said:
I didn't see any discussion of this earlier, but the total number of rooms being added to EMH and early FastPass+ is 1500. Of those, 1000 rooms are at the $150-$200 a night Hilton Orlando Bonnet Creek and 500 rooms at the $250-$350 a night Waldorf Astoria Orlando. As @seascape says, this will add about 4% to the number of rooms eligible for those benefits.

So along with the Disney Springs Hotels, it may be a continued slide down the slippery slope, but it seems to me that alone, it's not an apocalyptic change. I do appreciate all the speculation about the long-term direction this is moving in. OTOH, it could point to an offramp. The Waldorf Astoria is a premium experience and I suspect that it was that property that Hilton really wanted EMH and early FastPass+ access for. As such, they might have paid a premium price for this access since they will probably be able to get an extra 20% or more on their room rates. So maybe there really won't be that many other resorts willing to pony up the money for this.

There are 5500 total rooms at the 3 All-Star resorts and 2880 rooms at Pop Century. How much of a premium does Disney get from those rooms? I know it's quite a bit but I could imagine that Disney might see as much profits per room and higher margins from their deal at the Waldorf Astoria. OTOH, as others have said, it does mess further with the exclusivity of the on-property bubble.
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Great analysis...as usual. However, for Disney, I don’t think this is about fees...

It’s “training” all those that think going to WDW is special ( or more accurately...they are) to dump more money down the well

Just as a “Halloween party” two weeks before Labor Day is...or rolling upsells out for 3 “festivals” at Epcot they are damn near identical for 6 months
 
Poly1974

Poly1974

Active Member
I'm so glad I sold my DVC a few years back. The advantages to DVC/on property hotels are disappearing and the prices for everything are just getting ridiculous. I no longer see the value in a WDW vacation, and I was a die-hard going back to the 70s. I will enjoy my WDW memories and spend my vacation dollars elsewhere.
 
monothingie

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
@wdwmagic does your information indicate that there will be corresponding rate increase at these hotels as a result of this added perk? My feeling is that Disney was seeing these hotels siphoning on site guests and needed a way to have their prices more inline with Disney hotels. I’m sure that the participating hotels are kicking back something to Disney and also passing this kick back along to their guests via higher rates. Everyone wins...haha
 
S

seascape

Well-Known Member
BoarderPhreak said:
Between all the Disney Springs Resorts now being let in, you're talking at least 5k rooms - figure 10-20k people or more in the park(s) and using FP.
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The first time I went to WDW I stayed at a Disney Springs resort. There were the MK resorts and the Disney Springs resorts, no other options. The Disney Springs Resorts should have always has FP+. They were built by third parties because Disney needed more rooms.

Now going forward it is actually in WDWs interest to expand fast pass plus and Disney transportation into non disney owed hotels and timeshares. Disney transportation should be offered to all the Bonnet Creek resorts, Flamingo Crossing, Orange Lake and others. If those resorts are willing to pay like all the DVC resorts do it will be beneficial to the WDW parks and The Walt Disney Company's bottom line. WDW should do what is in its interest first and that means caring about those who visit Orlando to visit WDW. The people who visit and stay at resorts near WDW should be given some consideration as long as those resorts encourage their guests to go to WDW and not Universal.
 
DisneyFreak

DisneyFreak

Well-Known Member
Poly1974 said:
I'm so glad I sold my DVC a few years back. The advantages to DVC/on property hotels are disappearing and the prices for everything are just getting ridiculous. I no longer see the value in a WDW vacation, and I was a die-hard going back to the 70s. I will enjoy my WDW memories and spend my vacation dollars elsewhere.
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Sadly, this is where I am headed as well. Been going to WDW since 1978. There are just too many other places to go and enjoy a vacation at a much more reasonable price without the headaches and hoop jumping for planning.
 
Patcheslee

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if this has to do with wanting people to stay for longer vacations. FOP and TSL is already at 62-63 days for FP+. Adding more rooms to the 60 day window could push it to further into a vacation. Throw in GE and how ever far out availability will turn into for those. Some people that feel those are the "must see" attractions may plan for more days just to get a better chance at FP+. Now people need something else to do before their coveted FOP/TSL day so they will spend more on other activities. I could almost see Disney saying "book 8+ nights and receive a guaranteed ride on the new __ ride!!!"
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
mikejs78 said:
One thing worth keeping in mind: this is only currently until the end of 2019. They may extend it but it's not necessarily permanent.



Evening I agree with you. Morning EMH still has value...
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Evening EMH when MK closes at 11 PM was great. Park really emptied between 12 AM and 1 PM. Night owls for the win!!
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Patcheslee said:
I'm wondering if this has to do with wanting people to stay for longer vacations. FOP and TSL is already at 62-63 days for FP+. Adding more rooms to the 60 day window could push it to further into a vacation. Throw in GE and how ever far out availability will turn into for those. Some people that feel those are the "must see" attractions may plan for more days just to get a better chance at FP+. Now people need something else to do before their coveted FOP/TSL day so they will spend more on other activities. I could almost see Disney saying "book 8+ nights and receive a guaranteed ride on the new __ ride!!!"
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Well, at least you'll then be able to get FoP FPs rather easily!!

😉
 

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