News Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios

[GoofGoof]

Crowding is relative and in the case of Walt Disney World it is intentional. Disney will work to make sure it feels crowded. That’s why they’re still not adding significant capacity and doing a lot of replacing. It’s a huge benefit because people voluntarily make up reasons for why they have to accept guest-hostile decisions.

If crowding is what they want I think they will likely get it here. The land is a dead end with the most popular ride in the back. It’s definitely going to feel full in there even with removing the gift shop and creating the outdoor space.

 

[Disnutz311]

​

I believe this is the relevant clause:

i.​

East of The Mississippi - any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted. [For purpose of this subsection and subsection iv, a character is “being used by MCA” if (x) it or another character of the same “family” (e.g., any member of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, THE AVENGERS or villains associated with a hero being used) is more than an incidental element of an attraction, is presented as a costumed character, or is more than an incidental element of the theming of a retail store or food facility; and, (y) in addition, if such character or another character from the same “family” is an element in any MCA marketing during the previous year. Any character who is only used as a costume character will not be considered to be “being used by MCA” unless it appears as more than an incidental element in MCA’s marketing.]​

Ant-Man and Black Panther are out - both are core Avengers. I suspect that if Uni wanted to challenge Strange, which they might if Disney pushed beyond pop-up meet-and-greets, they'd have a decent case.

What I still can't understand is what does Disney actually think these rights are worth? No doubt they have tried to trade or purchase at one time. But what was their offer? If they are keeping Animation Courtyard for bigger things, then isn't buying Marvel theme park rights worth 500 million? 750 million? Is Universal actually making tons of money off the IP or it's simply protecting attendance? Has to be the later.

I'm not in the C-Suite of both companies, but 500 million gets Disney the rights and Universal a new land makeover paid for. Marvel Merch & F&B would make Disney a billion in a 3 year ROI for sure. Has to be Universal saying not for sale at any price.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What I still can't understand is what does Disney actually think these rights are worth? No doubt they have tried to trade or purchase at one time. But what was their offer? If they are keeping Animation Courtyard for bigger things, then isn't buying Marvel theme park rights worth 500 million? 750 million? Is Universal actually making tons of money off the IP or it's simply protecting attendance? Has to be the later.

I'm not in the C-Suite of both companies, but 500 million gets Disney the rights and Universal a new land makeover paid for. Marvel Merch & F&B would make Disney a billion in a 3 year ROI for sure. Has to be Universal saying not for sale at any price.

Universal now builds $800 million plus lands, why would they want just a $500 million land? Why would they not want some nice extra profit too? Why would they give up a very low, generally consistent licensing fee?

On the Disney side, even that low price of $500 million is a cost associated with this hypothetical land. That’s half a billion dollars just dropped on top of Disney’s already high costs with nothing to actually to show for it.

 

[danlb_2000]

What I still can't understand is what does Disney actually think these rights are worth? No doubt they have tried to trade or purchase at one time. But what was their offer? If they are keeping Animation Courtyard for bigger things, then isn't buying Marvel theme park rights worth 500 million? 750 million? Is Universal actually making tons of money off the IP or it's simply protecting attendance? Has to be the later.

I'm not in the C-Suite of both companies, but 500 million gets Disney the rights and Universal a new land makeover paid for. Marvel Merch & F&B would make Disney a billion in a 3 year ROI for sure. Has to be Universal saying not for sale at any price.

Universal has very few of it's own properties that would make good theme park lands, so if it replaced Marvel it would likely be another outside license. They are not going to get another property that is even remotely as popular as Marvel for the price they are paying to license it.

I would not be surprised if Universal would be looking $1B+ to give up the rights. Why would Disney want to spend all that money, and then have to spend a ton more money to build Marvel attractions in WDW?

 

[JackCH]

Universal has very few of it's own properties that would make good theme park lands, so if it replaced Marvel it would likely be another outside license. They are not going to get another property that is even remotely as popular as Marvel for the price they are paying to license it.

I would not be surprised if Universal would be looking $1B+ to give up the rights. Why would Disney want to spend all that money, and then have to spend a ton more money to build Marvel attractions in WDW?

It is crazy too that I think most would agree Universal still has the best Marvel Land anyway.

But, as a Florida resident, I'm bummed there won't be anything new here using that IP for a long time.

 

[Brer Panther]

"The past years, we have somebody at the tops who actually cares about the Muppets a great deal and so I'm hopeful."

This was at the very same D23 where he was given a Disney Legend award. Coincidence? Somehow, I doubt it.

 

[Disnutz311]

Universal has very few of it's own properties that would make good theme park lands, so if it replaced Marvel it would likely be another outside license. They are not going to get another property that is even remotely as popular as Marvel for the price they are paying to license it.

I would not be surprised if Universal would be looking $1B+ to give up the rights. Why would Disney want to spend all that money, and then have to spend a ton more money to build Marvel attractions in WDW?

Good points, so maybe it is billion plus dollars, not 500 million. Look at Fox purchase. Was that really worth 71 Billion? Epic Games investment so far? Marvel theme parks rights for a billion to make 2 to 3 billion in ten years once lands are built seems worth it. It's the long game, no?

Disney has spent more money on stupider things before...

 

[Rosso11]

What I still can't understand is what does Disney actually think these rights are worth? No doubt they have tried to trade or purchase at one time. But what was their offer? If they are keeping Animation Courtyard for bigger things, then isn't buying Marvel theme park rights worth 500 million? 750 million? Is Universal actually making tons of money off the IP or it's simply protecting attendance? Has to be the later.

I'm not in the C-Suite of both companies, but 500 million gets Disney the rights and Universal a new land makeover paid for. Marvel Merch & F&B would make Disney a billion in a 3 year ROI for sure. Has to be Universal saying not for sale at any price.

The two companies are still in the middle of negotiating a fair price for the Comcast Hulu percentage. It’s possible, although a long shot, that this could be part of the discussion. Stranger things have happened. Just look at how Disney got Oswald back.

But it is interesting that the last few months the rumors have been swirling about Universal retheming marvel in Orlando. I’m sure it’s partly because they are retheming the Spiderman ride in Japan. Rumors are to Pokémon. So now the rumors are they will do the same in Orlando and switch Marvel completely to Pokémon. Is there any truth to it? Who knows but it is an interesting timing with Disney and Comcast in active negotiations at the moment over Hulu.

Also the fact that Universal has not expanded their Marvel land since Disney bought it in 2009 makes you think. Marvel was the hottest property for the last 15 years and Universal has put no money into expanding the land. They’ve had prime real estate with an empty theater sitting next to Spiderman this entire time. Did they always assume they would eventually lose/sell the rights one day, so why bother?

 

[Disnutz311]

The two companies are still in the middle of negotiating a fair price for the Comcast Hulu percentage. It’s possible, although a long shot, that this could be part of the discussion. Stranger things have happened. Just look at how Disney got Oswald back.

But it is interesting that the last few months the rumors have been swirling about Universal retheming marvel in Orlando. I’m sure it’s because they are retheming the Spiderman ride in Japan. Rumors are to Pokémon. So now the rumors are they will do the same in Orlando and switch Marvel completely to Pokémon. Is there any truth to it? Who knows but it is an interesting timing with Disney and Comcast in active negotiations at the moment over Hulu.

Also the fact that Universal has not expanded their Marvel land since Disney bought it in 2009 makes you think. Marvel was the hottest property for the last 15 years and Universal has put no money into expanding the land. They’ve had prime real estate with an empty theater sitting next to Spiderman this entire time. Did they always assume they would eventually lose/sell the rights one day, so why bother?

Interesting. I could see it. That would open a lot of doors for Disney. Doesn't Universal have to use it or lose it? Or at the very least it frees up a lot of characters being able to be used then.

Gotta love rumors. Hope they are true. Hope Disney goes all in if and when something happens.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

Mark my words: if Incredibles doesn't go to Animation Courtyard, its going to Star Tours.

Some people have also speculated Incredibles could also be one of the IPs for a Tomorrowland redo, but I think a full on land would be better.

This would be a prime opportunity to bring the TDS Pan/Infinity Defense ride system to WDW.

 

[UNCgolf]

It will though. There’s a new coaster, which will draw a lot of people to the back of the land.
HarryHausen’s will be much more popular than Melrose, meaning more people will get reservations there instead of Sci-Fi or Brown Derby.
The PizzeRizzo replacement may actually be edible and have decent hours which will mean more people choose to eat there than ABC Comm. Or Backlot Express.

It's entirely possible (and maybe even likely) that whatever retheme PizzeRizzo gets won't change the menu or food quality.

They didn't change the menu when they changed it from Pizza Planet to PizzeRizzo; that place has been serving the same stuff for 20+ years.

 

[UNCgolf]

Good points, so maybe it is billion plus dollars, not 500 million. Look at Fox purchase. Was that really worth 71 Billion? Epic Games investment so far? Marvel theme parks rights for a billion to make 2 to 3 billion in ten years once lands are built seems worth it. It's the long game, no?

Disney has spent more money on stupider things before...

I don't think Avengers Campus has been a very big success for Disney, which would probably make them far less interested in spending the kind of money it would require to both buy the IP and then construct a land for it.

They have plenty of other IP they already own and can use instead.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

I don't think Avengers Campus has been a very big success for Disney, which would probably make them far less interested in spending the kind of money it would require to both buy the IP and then construct a land for it.

They have plenty of other IP they already own and can use instead.

I think the reason why Avengers Campus has not been a bigger hit has to do with the lack of an E ticket, which is being remedied now with Infinity Defense. Wonder if that is what finally moves the needle.

On more thing, its Avatar just rumored to take over the backlot portion of HL, meaning Avengers Campus could expand and take out both the Hyperion and Animation building.

 

[andysol]

How can you say that? Within one month of its closure, there will be 5000 newly-unemployed chiropractors in Central Florida.

Space mountain will keep their families fed

 

[UNCgolf]

I think the reason why Avengers Campus has not been a bigger hit has to do with the lack of an E ticket, which is being remedied now with Infinity Defense. Wonder if that is what finally moves the needle.

On more thing, its Avatar just rumored to take over the backlot portion of HL, meaning Avengers Campus could expand and take out both the Hyperion and Animation building.

It'll certainly be more popular with an E ticket attraction, but it's just a very bland land -- which is the biggest problem with Marvel in general.

I think they can make great attractions with it (although Web Slingers is horrible), but it's really not at all conducive to building a themed land.

 

[Disnutz311]

I don't think Avengers Campus has been a very big success for Disney, which would probably make them far less interested in spending the kind of money it would require to both buy the IP and then construct a land for it.

They have plenty of other IP they already own and can use instead.

Avengers Campus is Disney creating something with handcuffs on. Only allowed to use certain characters and using existing land. Take them off, give them land and a proper budget and it would be different.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Marvel theme parks rights for a billion to make 2 to 3 billion in ten years once lands are built seems worth it. It's the long game, no?

They already built two lands and they weren’t willing to spend a billion dollars on them. Even then, the buy out gets added in top of the design costs. There is also no buy out clause where a third party sets the valuation, so Universal is under no obligation to be reasonable in their demands.

Avengers Campus is Disney creating something with handcuffs on. Only allowed to use certain characters and using existing land. Take them off, give them land and a proper budget and it would be different.

What handcuffs? The Universal deal only restricts the use of the Marvel name and branding at Disney’s California Adventure. It imposes no other limitations in California or Paris.

 

[Disnutz311]

They already built two lands and they weren’t willing to spend a billion dollars on them. Even then, the buy out gets added in top of the design costs. There is also no buy out clause where a third party sets the valuation, so Universal is under no obligation to be reasonable in their demands.


What handcuffs? The Universal deal only restricts the use of the Marvel name and branding at Disney’s California Adventure. It imposes no other limitations in California or Paris.

Noted. I forgot they had no restrictions on characters in DCA.

 

[mattpeto]

You understand that attractions cost money to staff and maintain, right?

Did you start following Disney last week?

Tell me about phase 2s. Tell me about the Epcot expansion and the pandemic. Tell me about the MGM overhaul.

Yes and it cost more money to build an attraction and produce a stage show.

Sure stuff gets canceled but plenty of the announcements pan out. You still mad at Mary Poppins and the Festival Pavilion? Some of that was due to the pandemic.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yes and it cost more money to build an attraction and produce a stage show.

Sure stuff gets canceled but plenty of the announcements pan out. You still mad at Mary Poppins and the Festival Pavilion? Some of that was due to the pandemic.

When modern theme park companies are investing capital (reluctantly) they will look for any budget cut available, including slashing items the loss of which is detrimental to the park. Look at Universals actions in the lead up to Epic, or think back to the whole, “thanks Shanghai” thing. This is not an obscure notion.

There are more, but let’s take your own examples. The changes to Epcot’s plans occurred in part because a new management team took over at Disney. What is taking place in 2026? They also took place because of a shift in the national economic situation. What is likely to happen in the next several years?