Monorail pink

[board57796]

... yet I can't dismiss the psychological factor of seeing a monorail identifiable by color with an accident. What bothers me, and perhaps I'm being premature or I'm out of synch, is the lack of communication from Disney on what they're doing to make sure this doesn't happen again. They forget that while we're guests, we're also the parents of future cast members and as of now I would not let any of my four children operate a monorail knowing they're dependent on deficient safety system.

With all due respect to the deceased, his friends and family, and the monorail operators of today and the future, we need to change the conversation from what happened to what's being done to prevent it from happening again.

As for colors how about Monorail White and Monorail Clear (although I do like the plaid and LED ideas).

We have changed many procedures since then, any one of which would have prevented the accident had they been in place that night. You should have no fear of riding the Monorail, or for any of the CMs piloting them.

The most popular suggestion for Train 11/12 is pearl (like a pearl white paint on a car) with a purple outlining.

 

[montyz81]

So is it confirmed that new end units will be built or will they rebuild the existing ones?

 

[CDavid]

Pardon me if this has been addressed in a thread somewhere (nor do I mean to be insensitive by asking), but I am surprised that at least one of the damaged monorails isn't back in service. Wouldn't it have been possible to swap out end cab cars on either purple or pink to create one good monorail? Take the undamaged cars on pink and mate them with the undamaged (or minimally damaged, perhaps?) cars on the opposite end of purple, then paint the whole train to match (new or old color).

Again, I absolutely don't mean to appear insensitive to such a tragedy by asking such questions, but indeed, I was just sort of expecting something like such a rebuild to happen, and sort of surprised it didn't. Is there something about the monorails design which prevents, or makes difficult, combining trains in such a manner?

 

[s8film40]

To be honest, this is not at all for a warm fuzzy feeling for the Guests, but more for the minds of the pilots. Trust me, this is still an extremely raw event to us and the wounds are opened every day by some rude Guest. I personally would not feel strange saying "Purple, by" again, but I know other pilots would not be able to bring themselves to do it.

While I have complete respect for how monorail pilots may be handling this accident, when it comes time to bring these trains back into service I don't think they should or will take into consideration the emotional effect the color of the train might have on cast members. If someone can't bring themselves to drive a train because of the color of the stripe then there emotionally unfit for the job and should transfer, thats not to say that it's their fault or a bad thing in any way it's just an unfortunate side effect of an accident. I am sure there are family members of the Sept. 11th tragedy who will not be able to step foot inside whatever building is replacing the WTC but that doesn't mean they shouldn't build it. Tragic things happen and everyone needs to handle it in their own way but you can't change things just to accommodate a handful of people. Personally I would find it very insulting to the memory of Austin to "retire" a monorail color as the result of this accident.

And to say that the meetings we had are "completely meaningless" and just "giving us something to do" is, in my mind, rude.

I am very sorry that you felt that that was rude, it was not intended that way. It was an honest assessment on my part of the way monorails and Disney works. Now I think it's rude to have these meetings when they probably have no intention at all of listening to the cast members.

 

[board57796]

Pardon me if this has been addressed in a thread somewhere (nor do I mean to be insensitive by asking), but I am surprised that at least one of the damaged monorails isn't back in service. Wouldn't it have been possible to swap out end cab cars on either purple or pink to create one good monorail? Take the undamaged cars on pink and mate them with the undamaged (or minimally damaged, perhaps?) cars on the opposite end of purple, then paint the whole train to match (new or old color).

Again, I absolutely don't mean to appear insensitive to such a tragedy by asking such questions, but indeed, I was just sort of expecting something like such a rebuild to happen, and sort of surprised it didn't. Is there something about the monorails design which prevents, or makes difficult, combining trains in such a manner?

Both are off-limits to Disney until the legal process and investigation is complete.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Both are off-limits to Disney until the legal process and investigation is complete.

Which I'm going to assume will stretch on for at least another 6 months to a year, right?

Is the mouse going to fix both trains and build two new cabs?

Or is that something you cant talk about?

 

[zulemara]

While I personally feel they should retire the colors involved and repaint, I do have to point out that a CM was killed from the General Joe Potter and watercraft didn't change the name or color of the Ferry.

 

[Mickey_777]

How about if we just get the Disneyland Monorail cars...

 

[s8film40]

How about if we just get the Disneyland Monorail cars...

While the Disneyland trains are really nice, I don't think that style would fit as well at WDW.

Ultimately I think they may look to get new trains and expand the system in the near future and if they do they will probably have to go with a slightly different style. The colored stripe system just doesn't work once you have more trains than basic colors. They could make them all look exactly the same.

 

[Brian_B]

Changing the colors is a really stupid idea, and I think ultimately they will keep them both the same.

The voice of reason. Thank you.

 

[Timon]

While the Disneyland trains are really nice, I don't think that style would fit as well at WDW.

Ultimately I think they may look to get new trains and expand the system in the near future and if they do they will probably have to go with a slightly different style. The colored stripe system just doesn't work once you have more trains than basic colors. They could make them all look exactly the same.

How about something like this.

 

[s8film40]

How about something like this.

Yeah I think thats going to be the way to go. Fully automated system, Automated platform doors and track switches, 4 car trains that combine to make 8 car trains at peak times. I think I would like to see them use that style but keep the learjet nose and use the seattle style walkthrough design to make the end cabs open and available. I doubt we would be lucky enough to get that logo on the skirt but I like it!

 

[PhotoDave219]

I don't like the idea of full automation.

I think that someday we will get back to riding up front with a knowledgeable CM.

 

[s8film40]

I don't like the idea of full automation.

I think that someday we will get back to riding up front with a knowledgeable CM.

The efficiency of a fully automated system would really be a good thing for WDW. While I would also miss riding up front with a good knowledgeable monorail pilot, that had been becoming an increasingly rarer thing. With a starting pay of $7.90/hour your just not going to consistently have the quality of people up there to achieve this. I come across people all the time who would make great monorail pilots and suggest they do it, they usually get fairly excited at the idea and then when they find out the starting pay they realize they simply can't do it. I also have known many great monorail pilots who although they loved their job had to leave to get a "real" job.

 

[Timon]

Yeah I think thats going to be the way to go. Fully automated system, Automated platform doors and track switches, 4 car trains that combine to make 8 car trains at peak times. I think I would like to see them use that style but keep the learjet nose and use the seattle style walkthrough design to make the end cabs open and available. I doubt we would be lucky enough to get that logo on the skirt but I like it!

Automatic - I agree about them being automated but Disney could handle it like TDL does and have a host on each train for emergencies (reassurance) and announcements.

Coupling - The current Bombardier design while it has a flip up nose to reveal the tow hitch it doesn't have a automatic coupling yet. But could. Sets of 3 car trains would work with existing stations where 8 car trains would require extending the stations. FYI - The stations are made for six cars although the Contemporary station can handle longer trains. Walk-thru is a great idea but I have no idea how Bombardier can work around the drive motors an wheels. Hitachi monorails raised the floors and uses four smaller wheels under the floor instead of a big wheel at the end of the car. You can't raise the floor without rebuilding every station and the Contemporary Hotel so I think that's out.

Walk Thru - Bombardier has a walk thru design see below but looking closely the train is one seat wider, 6 seats vs 5 seats. Now maybe Disney can shave 12" more inches from the stations I don't know - maybe?

Logo - I think the old logo has reached the nostalgia level that the Disneyland logo has and should be brought back for better brand identification.

 

[dreamfinder]

Personally, retire the colors. As several PP's have said, its a small tribute, that ultimately most guests won't be affected by.
For those who say that guests will notice a new monorail color, how many guests actually know how many monorails they have? Or for that matter what the colors actually are? I would wager not that many. As is apparent even from repeat guests who are members of the board, not many people notice the deltas on the current trains to even know that Coral isn't Pink.
Involving the CM's in the decision process is always smart. Especially since it's not a make or break for the project. Asking them to decide something like the train size is a make or break, but a paint job is trivial, but yet still symbolic enough to have meaning to those who interact with the system on a regular basis.

 

[Monorail Lime]

Walk thru is a great idea but I have no idea how Bombardier can work around the drive motors an wheels. Hitachi monorails raised the floors and uses two smaller wheels under the floor instead of a big wheel at the end of the car. You can't raise the floor without rebuilding every station and the Contemporary Hotel so I think that's out.

It's not just the raised floors. The Hitachi Type 2 Standard beam (Tokyo Disneyland and others) is about 50% wider than the WDW beam. Those trains will never exist at WDW, period.

Walk-through isn't totally impossible on a WDW/Vegas scale system but it would require a new and radically different monorail design. That's something Disney will never get as long as they continue working with Bombardier.

 

[Timon]

It's not just the raised floors. The Hitachi Type 2 Standard beam (Tokyo Disneyland and others) is about 50% wider than the WDW beam. Those trains will never exist at WDW, period.

Walk-through isn't totally impossible on a WDW/Vegas scale system but it would require a new and radically different monorail design. That's something Disney will never get as long as they continue working with Bombardier.

Beams - True, WDW uses a 26" beam vs TDL with a 31.5" beam. I bet that's for the heavier and bigger cars. They don't seem a lot wider, maybe as wide as the Bombardier cutaway image in my last post. I love the TDL walk thru design but hate the funky mouse ear windows. Disney would have to redo from scratch the entire WDW system for a Hitachi monorail which, as you say, will never happen.

The TDL monorails are BIG really big. 571 passengers vs 364 for WDW

Then there is Disneyland's cool looking but tiny monorail. 122 passengers on a 20" beam.

What kind of radical design are you talking about? You don't like Bombardier? Looking at the Las Vegas monorail from a technical point vs very poor track and station choice viewpoint. The M-VI train has advanced automation, new wheel suspension/drive design, station level floors for wheelchair access, a superior track switch system and AC that works in the desert! Dang not bad. Disney is locked into a certain size and footprint train and they make them why not use them.

 

[Monorail Lime]

The M-VI is indeed an impressive monorail but it isn't a walk-through. Radical would be engineering a way to adapt the benefits of a big train like the Hitachi to the 5/8ths scale WDW system. Bombardier's proposal for a small walk-through train is more like a crawl-through since it still has the large drive wheels at the ends of every car. I suppose it works but there isn't much imagination behind it in my opinion.

I concur that the M-VI is an obvious and logical contender if WDW ever buys completely new monorails. However, implementing an automated system would require millions of dollars in upgrades to the beamway electrical and switching systems in order to utilize all of the benefits offered by automation. That kind of expenditure isn't in the cards any time soon.

I wouldn't be surprised if the existing Mark VI monorails get at least one refresh before retirement. The bodies may be showing their age but the chassis and most electrical components are in fantastic shape due to years of excellent upkeep and refinement by the monorail shop. Disneyland is now running their third set of bodies on top of 40-year-old Mark III chassis and the Mark VI's are in good enough shape to potentially have the same degree of longevity.

 

[Timon]

The M-VI is indeed an impressive monorail but it isn't a walk-through. Radical would be engineering a way to adapt the benefits of a big train like the Hitachi to the 5/8ths scale WDW system. Bombardier's proposal for a small walk-through train is more like a crawl-through since it still has the large drive wheels at the ends of every car. I suppose it works but there isn't much imagination behind it in my opinion.

I concur that the M-VI is an obvious and logical contender if WDW ever buys completely new monorails. However, implementing an automated system would require millions of dollars in upgrades to the beamway electrical and switching systems in order to utilize all of the benefits offered by automation. That kind of expenditure isn't in the cards any time soon.

I wouldn't be surprised if the existing Mark VI monorails get at least one refresh before retirement. The bodies may be showing their age but the chassis and most electrical components are in fantastic shape due to years of excellent upkeep and refinement by the monorail shop. Disneyland is now running their third set of bodies on top of 40-year-old Mark III chassis and the Mark VI's are in good enough shape to potentially have the same degree of longevity.

Walk thru - The original ALWEG design (Seattle), early Hitachi and SCOMI have the wheels hidden under benches. I bet that makes working on them really easy. Maybe Bombardier could go with a set of four small wheels at each end and throw a bench over them.

Here is the Seattle monorail with the center bench.

EDIT: OoooH! Monorail make out picture! Just noticed it!

Upgrades - I'm sure you read about the smoke in train/station the other day near the MK. Makes me wonder if WDW system might be nearing overhaul time. I think WDW gets more wear and tear than the Disneyland trains maybe that's why the Mark IV's were crushed vs new bodies? I can see the Mark VI's getting more upgrades like they've been getting with new consoles and interior refits.

Someday, I can drool over a new Mark VIII!