DisneyJill
Well-Known Member
Re: Billions - How so?
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Monorail Expansion
- Thread starter PeterAlt
- Start date
thedisneyfan
Member
I think that planning/development for some additional mass transit system that could connect a few more resorts and AK/MGM should be occuring right now because eventually WDW will need it, but they don't have to start construction for a few years. However, if they do neglect this then WDW could become very conjested and bus transportation won't suffice in several years. Current market conditions don't require it right now, but in several more years by 2010 or 2012 they'll be kicking themselves if they don't have such an expansion completed to reduce the traffic on WDW property and give a boost to guests overall experience.
Invero
Well-Known Member
In regards to traffic, I think I should mention that each bus on the road can take up to 25 cars off the road, on average. And although you see Disney buses everywhere, the cars do out number us by FAR.
It should also be noted that a a good percentage of the cars on the road are day guests, who would not be using an expanded transportation system if it were made available. Don't forget, there are over 10,000 parking spaces at both MK and Epcot, and around 7,000 spaces at both Studios and AK. On busy days, when the parking lots get busy, that's somewhere around 30,000 cars that will be on our roads, plus of course all the cars at the Water parks, DTD, and the resorts. Then you figure in Cast Members, outside buses, company vehicles... The roads are going to be crowded, yes... but an expanded transportation system probably won't effect too much of that.
And one more point... who's to say that bus transportation won't suffice then? Let's think about this. A monorail system, such as the one in place, is fixed. Unable to grow to meet the demands. Beams have a maximum limit for trains.
Buses however, are flexible. You can always add as many as you need to meet the demand. They can go where the people are.
It should also be noted that a a good percentage of the cars on the road are day guests, who would not be using an expanded transportation system if it were made available. Don't forget, there are over 10,000 parking spaces at both MK and Epcot, and around 7,000 spaces at both Studios and AK. On busy days, when the parking lots get busy, that's somewhere around 30,000 cars that will be on our roads, plus of course all the cars at the Water parks, DTD, and the resorts. Then you figure in Cast Members, outside buses, company vehicles... The roads are going to be crowded, yes... but an expanded transportation system probably won't effect too much of that.
And one more point... who's to say that bus transportation won't suffice then? Let's think about this. A monorail system, such as the one in place, is fixed. Unable to grow to meet the demands. Beams have a maximum limit for trains.
Buses however, are flexible. You can always add as many as you need to meet the demand. They can go where the people are.
Just another thought...
How about monorails to the 4 theme parks, the 2 water parks, and Downtown Disney ONLY. The hotels would be connected via a peoplemover system. The monorail extension would be paid for by a surtax collected by the Reedy Creek Improvement District on all park hopper tickets. This tax would also be used for parking as well, so guests with park-hopper tickets would be able to park their cars for free, to add value to the tax. Hotel guests will be charged a "transportation tax" to pay for the peoplemover.
I'm sure the extra charge would be overlooked by guests because new monorails and a peoplemover system would be worth it!
How about monorails to the 4 theme parks, the 2 water parks, and Downtown Disney ONLY. The hotels would be connected via a peoplemover system. The monorail extension would be paid for by a surtax collected by the Reedy Creek Improvement District on all park hopper tickets. This tax would also be used for parking as well, so guests with park-hopper tickets would be able to park their cars for free, to add value to the tax. Hotel guests will be charged a "transportation tax" to pay for the peoplemover.
I'm sure the extra charge would be overlooked by guests because new monorails and a peoplemover system would be worth it!
surfsupdon
Well-Known Member
I love the busses and bus drivers!!:sohappy:
Monorails are not a necessity. A simple expansion linking more parks, maybe could help, but I'd still take buses and boats as monorails are not the most convenient.
Monorails are not a necessity. A simple expansion linking more parks, maybe could help, but I'd still take buses and boats as monorails are not the most convenient.
thedisneyfan
Member
As more and more busses and cars are added to the maxed out roads, the busses will become less and less convenient. I can guarantee it. Busses can not and will not be the solution to all of the traffic needs of WDW future. To ignore this fact will be much more costly than that of Monorail or some other sort of similar system.
A note on the people movers...
When Walt and his team at Imagineering had the idea to use people movers at Epcot, I think they were planning to have them for 2 important reasons:
1: They could be used as an attraction in themselves. Visitors could board them and get a tour of the place, while enjoying the view and the nice ride. This was back when people movers were still somewhat new.
2: They would be used by the people residing in the homes on the green belt to get to and from the central hub. In otherwords, they would be used on an every day basis. I think the point was to show how a simple layout like Epcot would have, plus the peoplemovers, would allow people to efficiently, and safely get to work, the mall, places to eat, all those types of everyday things that, in big cities, could provide a bit of a hassle to get to, crossing busy streets, walking far, etc. Think of all the money peope could save on gas! And even without the people movers, it was only a short walk away to the central hub.
With the way Disney World and Epcot are now, these two reasons aren't really a factor anymore. But thats just my opinion.
When Walt and his team at Imagineering had the idea to use people movers at Epcot, I think they were planning to have them for 2 important reasons:
1: They could be used as an attraction in themselves. Visitors could board them and get a tour of the place, while enjoying the view and the nice ride. This was back when people movers were still somewhat new.
2: They would be used by the people residing in the homes on the green belt to get to and from the central hub. In otherwords, they would be used on an every day basis. I think the point was to show how a simple layout like Epcot would have, plus the peoplemovers, would allow people to efficiently, and safely get to work, the mall, places to eat, all those types of everyday things that, in big cities, could provide a bit of a hassle to get to, crossing busy streets, walking far, etc. Think of all the money peope could save on gas! And even without the people movers, it was only a short walk away to the central hub.
With the way Disney World and Epcot are now, these two reasons aren't really a factor anymore. But thats just my opinion.
Originally posted by JLW11Hi
A note on the people movers...
When Walt and his team at Imagineering had the idea to use people movers at Epcot, I think they were planning to have them for 2 important reasons:
1: They could be used as an attraction in themselves. Visitors could board them and get a tour of the place, while enjoying the view and the nice ride. This was back when people movers were still somewhat new.
2: They would be used by the people residing in the homes on the green belt to get to and from the central hub. In otherwords, they would be used on an every day basis. I think the point was to show how a simple layout like Epcot would have, plus the peoplemovers, would allow people to efficiently, and safely get to work, the mall, places to eat, all those types of everyday things that, in big cities, could provide a bit of a hassle to get to, crossing busy streets, walking far, etc. Think of all the money peope could save on gas! And even without the people movers, it was only a short walk away to the central hub.
With the way Disney World and Epcot are now, these two reasons aren't really a factor anymore. But thats just my opinion.
Another note is that Disney (company) invented the technology for the monorail (used at the parks) and peoplemovers. The idea was to sell this technology as a business. When Eisner's team came to Disney, their background was in the film and television business, not the other businesses Disney was getting into.
Eisner accepted the theme park business as an extention of the film business by having the attitude that rides are like films, and successful rides must have the same principles to a successful film. But the real estate market (Arvida) Disney was getting into and the mass transportation markets were foriegn to Eisner and his crew, so he sold off those units. All the peoplemover and monorail patents went to Bombardier, a Canadian mass transit company. Now that Disney no longer owns these technologies, Disney no longer has the need to showcase them.
Which is ashame, in my opinion.
marypopmom
Member
Please don't ask me where or how because I just can't say but disney is very concerned about the current state of the concrete guideways and they have and should consider/reconsider some of the other transportation options that hmmm I should say have been proposed to the management. It really all comes down to dollars and sense. THey know there is a great need and they just cant afford it right now. They are also very interested in the other transporation options that are being explored in regard to the florida transportation bond funding act etc. Hmm Tyler do you know anything about this. Light rail is one of the options but not the only one.
What I'm wondering Pete is, why you are so adamant about it. I personally would like to see some "new" transportation or an expanded monorail, but I'm just curious as to why you created this elaborate (sort of) plan and are defending it so mightilly. No one on here makes the decision, so even if you sway someone's opinion on here that doesn't mean it will happen.... does it?
niteobsrvr
Well-Known Member
Actually, Disney doesn't have a traffic problem on its property. The problem occurs where Disney built roads interface with State/Federal roads. The biggest problem with congestion occurs when people are leaving EPCOT and trying to get on to I-4. That section of I-4 just cant absorb the cars fast enough.
The problem is compunded when Disney-MGM Studios closes at approximately the same time. A lot fo guests from there travel down Buena Vista Blvd and join in the traffic on EPCOT Center Drive trying to Merge with I-4 instead of going over to Osceola Pkway and jumpin on I-4 form there.
The other major point of frustration is 7 Seas Drive in front of the Ticket Center. Since this is only a 2 lane road, any accident can severly clog up that area. Accidents however are the exception and nto the rule. Therefore most of the time it is smooth sailing.
Only a couple of times a year like New Years and 4th of July have I seen serious clogging of the transportation system. And this is due, in no small part, to the locals who drive out to see the fireworks from their car at whatever place might be their favorite vantage point
The 30,000 or so cars that Tyler refers to are typically parked most of the day. The remaining traffic is from taxi's, busses, delivery trucks, and cast members. With over 114 (i believe that is the number) lane miles of roadway on Disney property, the current number of vehicles moving about hasn't even begun to tax the system. SInce attendance at Disney is not growing by leaps and bounds, it is conceiveable that in 10 years there will be no appreciable difference in traffic volume on Disney's roadways. The only noticeable change may come in the changing of traffic patterns due to the introduction of some new state highways planned to intersect with the west side of WDW.
Monorail is an issue of convenience for the guests and potential cost savings to the company more so than a solution to an inevitable traffic problem. Ultimately, what and where a mass transit system will be built or expanded on property depends a lot on the traffic patterns outside of Disney Property and the systems that the government will install to alleviate the congestion.
Invero
Well-Known Member
(I just want to preface this by saying I'm not directing this at anyone... it's just a general overall thing that I've noticed in the past 2 years on here)
I just find it funny how all these folks that come down here for 5-14 days per year think they can say with authority about how the bus system is maxed out, and the roads are clogged up with buses and are maxed out too. But yet they have nothing but PRAISE for the monorail. And that irks me. Not because I'm anti-monorail and pro-bus... I'm pro both. What irks me is that they have no authority to say that.
As someone who has worked in Monorails and Buses for the past 3 years, if anything is maxed out, it's the Resort Monorail.
As niteobsrvr explained, the roadways aren't taxed at all. The only area that is, would be the I4/536 interchange, which really isn't Disney's fault. However, Disney is working on improving that, by creating a much needed auxilliary exit for the Disney-MGM Studios onto Victory Way in 2005.
With buses... Pop Century is a perfect example on how we can expand. In 2000, we slowly started expanding our fleet for the opening of Pop Century. We've now recieved all 71 of the needed buses for PC.
The monorail however, is fixed. The most it can expand is by running with 4 trains instead of 3. Not as much of an improvement as many would like.
I just find it funny how all these folks that come down here for 5-14 days per year think they can say with authority about how the bus system is maxed out, and the roads are clogged up with buses and are maxed out too. But yet they have nothing but PRAISE for the monorail. And that irks me. Not because I'm anti-monorail and pro-bus... I'm pro both. What irks me is that they have no authority to say that.
As someone who has worked in Monorails and Buses for the past 3 years, if anything is maxed out, it's the Resort Monorail.
As niteobsrvr explained, the roadways aren't taxed at all. The only area that is, would be the I4/536 interchange, which really isn't Disney's fault. However, Disney is working on improving that, by creating a much needed auxilliary exit for the Disney-MGM Studios onto Victory Way in 2005.
With buses... Pop Century is a perfect example on how we can expand. In 2000, we slowly started expanding our fleet for the opening of Pop Century. We've now recieved all 71 of the needed buses for PC.
The monorail however, is fixed. The most it can expand is by running with 4 trains instead of 3. Not as much of an improvement as many would like.
I live in Phoenix. We have busses here in Phoenix, we have cars, and we have taxis. What we don't have is a monorail, or people movers for that matter.
When I land at the Orlando Airport we get on a monorail (yay) and then we get our bags and get on a bus (boo) and then get to our rental car (yawn) and go to the World. At the parks, when we take the monorail somewhere, it is like a ride or an attraction (yay) there is lots to see from up there(yay) and it loads and unloads very quickly (yay). When we take our rental car somewhere we load quickly (yay) get where we are going fast (yay) and usually end up parking in a lot a long ways away from where we really want to be (boo). When we take a bus, we usually wait for it to arrive (boo) take what seems forever to get people on and off (boo) are crammed in like sardines (boo) and get eventually dropped off close to where we want to be (yay) unless we are changing busses to get to where we really wanted to go (double boo). Busses continously driving through our resort parking lot make bus noises and bus smells, they do not enhance the show. A bus, a car, or a taxi just isn't special, I want to ride on the monorail.
When I land at the Orlando Airport we get on a monorail (yay) and then we get our bags and get on a bus (boo) and then get to our rental car (yawn) and go to the World. At the parks, when we take the monorail somewhere, it is like a ride or an attraction (yay) there is lots to see from up there(yay) and it loads and unloads very quickly (yay). When we take our rental car somewhere we load quickly (yay) get where we are going fast (yay) and usually end up parking in a lot a long ways away from where we really want to be (boo). When we take a bus, we usually wait for it to arrive (boo) take what seems forever to get people on and off (boo) are crammed in like sardines (boo) and get eventually dropped off close to where we want to be (yay) unless we are changing busses to get to where we really wanted to go (double boo). Busses continously driving through our resort parking lot make bus noises and bus smells, they do not enhance the show. A bus, a car, or a taxi just isn't special, I want to ride on the monorail.
Originally posted by CSOM
What I'm wondering Pete is, why you are so adamant about it. I personally would like to see some "new" transportation or an expanded monorail, but I'm just curious as to why you created this elaborate (sort of) plan and are defending it so mightilly. No one on here makes the decision, so even if you sway someone's opinion on here that doesn't mean it will happen.... does it?
No, but it's fun to talk about it. And who knows, someone with some influence at Disney may be reading these messages!