Monorail beam cleaning?

[Master Yoda]

@Master Yoda do you happen to know if they are using an automated system for this? It wouldn't be difficult or that expensive to create an automated cleaning vehicle for the monorail that could run at night. If TDO were to consider the cost of labor verse the cost of an automated solution, certainly this would pay for itself in only a few years, if that long. That's assuming it cleans each beam only once per year.

From what I remember, it was still a manual process.

Creating an automated machine is certainly possible, but often not as easy as it looks. There area myriad of issues that would need to be overcome (means are not a consistent depth, there is the electrical power rail, stations, etc) Automated cleaning also tends to be lower quality than manual cleaning. A street sweeper does a pretty good job, but if you want clean, a human has to come behind it.

Machines like that are also brutally expensive especially when you are flipping the R&D bill.

Odds are that manual cleaning currently produces better results at a more affordable cost.

 

[Goofyernmost]

No offense but you clearly didn't visit Walt Disney World in the 90s or early '00s enough to know what the monorail should look like and it was carrying just as many people then as it is today. Yes it carries thousands of people a day but there is no reason for it to have fallen into this state of disrepair. It's embarrassing, frankly. Why they haven't pulled each train off, one by one, and completely redid the interiors, for example, is beyond me.

I did in the 80's, 90's and 2000's and now in the 2010's. And they look as good now as they ever did, they smell the same now that they always did and probably don't break down anymore then they ever did. My experience has shown me the like some of the rides, people who only think they know something think that every time something stops, it's broken down. The smell has been the same smell that they had when I first rode them in 1983, it's one of the trigger things that lets me know that I am there. People today have been so coddled that anything that doesn't smell like room deodorizer is an indication of dirt. Those who don't understand that people that number in the range of 10's of thousands a day are not always clean, and are not always concerned about what type of mess they might leave for others to clean up. Yet, you expect them to hold up a train to pick up some trash that they probably don't even know is there, because instead of anyone telling them, they just go on line and get all, in your face, militant about it.

As far as overhaul, those things have hundreds of thousands of miles on them. That would be a very good argument for thinking that they probably should start thinking about replacing them, but, to say that they don't overhaul or do maintenance on that fleet know nothing at all about maintenance and what would happen to those trains if they were neglected to the degree that they are being accused of. Even if they did redo the interiors, replacing old seats and carpeting how would you know. All these years and all those miles and all those millions of people that have parked their sweaty butts on those seats, all those thousands of kids that spent the trip kicking the seats with their heal. What kind of miracle interiors do you think were installed at the factory that you think they could possible have lasted this long without being replaced. Everyone just needs to get a grip on reality.

 

[JoeCamel]

I did in the 80's, 90's and 2000's and now in the 2010's. And they look as good now as they ever did, they smell the same now that they always did and probably don't break down anymore then they ever did. My experience has shown me the like some of the rides, people who only think they know something think that every time something stops, it's broken down. The smell has been the same smell that they had when I first rode them in 1983, it's one of the trigger things that lets me know that I am there. People today have been so coddled that anything that doesn't smell like room deodorizer is an indication of dirt. Those who don't understand that people that number in the range of 10's of thousands a day are not always clean, and are not always concerned about what type of mess they might leave for others to clean up. Yet, you expect them to hold up a train to pick up some trash that they probably don't even know is there, because instead of anyone telling them, they just go on line and get all, in your face, militant about it.

As far as overhaul, those things have hundreds of thousands of miles on them. That would be a very good argument for thinking that they probably should start thinking about replacing them, but, to say that they don't overhaul or do maintenance on that fleet know nothing at all about maintenance and what would happen to those trains if they were neglected to the degree that they are being accused of. Even if they did redo the interiors, replacing old seats and carpeting how would you know. All these years and all those miles and all those millions of people that have parked their sweaty butts on those seats, all those thousands of kids that spent the trip kicking the seats with their heal. What kind of miracle interiors do you think were installed at the factory that you think they could possible have lasted this long without being replaced. Everyone just needs to get a grip on reality.

You keep posting this but no one else seems to share your opinion. Guess you are wandering the woods alone.

 

[mikejs78]

You keep posting this but no one else seems to share your opinion. Guess you are wandering the woods alone.

No, he's not alone, I agree with him.

 

[JoeCamel]

No, he's not alone, I agree with him.

Yeah, another voice in the wilderness.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You keep posting this but no one else seems to share your opinion. Guess you are wandering the woods alone.

I am not responsible for the ignorance of others!

 

[Phil12]

Paint the beams a dirty black and the problem is solved.

 

[DisneyInsider101]

You keep posting this but no one else seems to share your opinion. Guess you are wandering the woods alone.

He is correct. They've always been dirty due to florida weather, but I would say they're a bit more dirty than usual.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

A side note regarding the "paint the beams black" comment from our resident troll, which I will put in spoiler tags to keep this tangent small-

Spoiler

As stupid as the idea is, Disney it seems actually attempted a variation of this themselves elsewhere on property A few years before Frozen invaded, the roof of the Maelstrom show building had been leaking rather badly. Before it was finally repaired, a significant amount of water absorbed into the walls and ceilings (this also damaged the lovely mural in the loading area). Black mold formed everywhere. They later painted the ceiling black in hopes it would disguise it.

It didn't work. Even black mold doesn't form in an even coloration or texture, various shades of dark can be just as visible on a black surface as other colors. The black painted ceilings in the queues for POTC and Small World are also caked with visible mold. You still have to actually clean the surfaces.

Another problem is that Disney has been cutting costs on climate control for the past 7 years or so. Which has the result of not only making guests more miserable, but also increases moisture levels, leading to mold growth (especially around vents) even if the building is not leaking.

He is correct. They've always been dirty due to florida weather, but I would say they're a bit more dirty than usual.

The level of grime depends on the area. They've always prioritized cleaning areas most visible and heavily trafficked, such as near the stations and parts close to or inside the park perimeters. But it is still quite apparent that even in these cases, the beams were cleaned far more frequently prior to the 2000s.

Power washing even the entire track every year or so should not be a significant cost, especially for a mega corporation like Disney.

 

[marni1971]

Power washing should be a bi annual event in all guest areas. More if needs dictate.

But given the state of the Wonders dome and Imagination glass, concrete beams are low down on the list of "should be done more but isn’t."

 

[Master Yoda]

Power washing should be a bi annual event in all guest areas. More if needs dictate.

But given the state of the Wonders dome and Imagination glass, concrete beams are low down on the list of "should be done more but isn’t."

Sounds like a good retirement job for me. Pressure washing is like meditation for me.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Power washing should be a bi annual event in all guest areas. More if needs dictate.

But given the state of the Wonders dome and Imagination glass, concrete beams are low down on the list of "should be done more but isn’t."

Thanks for clarifying that, I was actually legitimately curious how often the beams are supposed to be power washed and appreciate the info. I suspected that it needed to be more frequent than I assumed. It isn't even an expensive routine or anything.

I always love your tribute videos and other insight in the more grand scale aspects of Disney, but it's also valuable to hear information about what many might consider "mundane" details. Even maintenance info can still be interesting (one example was the old maintenance policy Disney used to follow regarding lightbulbs). It demonstrates how far standards of even the most basic upkeep have dropped over the past couple decades. And I don't buy that these small cuts are adding up to a truly significant or worthwhile profit increase.

 

[Master Yoda]

Thanks for clarifying that, I was actually legitimately curious how often the beams are supposed to be power washed and appreciate the info. I suspected that it needed to be more frequent than I assumed. It isn't even an expensive routine or anything.

I always love your tribute videos and other insight in the more grand scale aspects of Disney, but it's also valuable to hear information about what many might consider "mundane" details. Even maintenance info can still be interesting (one example was the old maintenance policy Disney used to follow regarding lightbulbs). It demonstrates how far standards of even the most basic upkeep have dropped over the past couple decades. And I don't buy that these small cuts are adding up to a truly significant or worthwhile profit increase.

Just cleaning the monorail beams really should be a full time position. One person could legitimately clean 1 maybe 2 sections of track per day. By the time that single person gets done with the entire track, it would be time to start over again.

The rub is, you have to cut power to the track to clean it and I don't think they have the ability to easily power down small sections of the track.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Just cleaning the monorail beams really should be a full time position. One person could legitimately clean 1 maybe 2 sections of track per day. By the time that single person gets done with the entire track, it would be time to start over again.

The rub is, you have to cut power to the track to clean it and I don't think they have the ability to easily power down small sections of the track.

The monorail still operates during rain, so would they actually need to cut power to wash the beams? Unless someone has to get extremely close to or even touch the metal rail, or if the current can travel up the stream of water (which I suppose is possible). Depowering the entire track doesn't seem like a big deal anyways when done outside of monorail operating hours. They probably can cut power to some individual segments though regardless.

I was looking at another topic from 7 years ago and someone suggested something (you were part of the conversation)- a monorail vehicle that could go along the track and clean the beams. You mentioned a sort of custom built non-powered "trailer" cleaner, which can be pulled along by one of the towing trains. Seems like a good idea.

 

[Master Yoda]

The monorail still operates during rain, so would they actually need to cut power to wash the beams? Unless someone has to get extremely close to or even touch the metal rail, or if the current can travel up the stream of water (which I suppose is possible). Depowering the entire track doesn't seem like a big deal anyways when done outside of monorail operating hours. They probably can cut power to some individual segments though regardless.

I was looking at another topic from 7 years ago and someone suggested something (you were part of the conversation)- a monorail vehicle that could go along the track and clean the beams. You mentioned a sort of custom built non-powered "trailer" cleaner, which can be pulled along by one of the towing trains. Seems like a good idea.

For cleaning concrete, your nozzle will need to be at the most 12" away from the surface. Realistically that number would be 6" or closer.

It is also my understanding that the power rail is an open, un-insulated point of contact...like the third rail on a train. There is not enough beer in the keg to get me run a pressure washer next to that with power running through it.

An automated machine is possible, but I don't think it is really practical. I can get into the details if you like, but in the end you have way too much cost for what would turn out to be a half a$$ job. (think no touch automatic car wash vs full hand detailing).

What could work is a an attachment to the existing tug that would allow a person to clean the beam without the need to any kind of a lift.

 

[JoeCamel]

For cleaning concrete, your nozzle will need to be at the most 12" away from the surface. Realistically that number would be 6" or closer.

It is also my understanding that the power rail is an open, un-insulated point of contact...like the third rail on a train. There is not enough beer in the keg to get me run a pressure washer next to that with power running through it.

An automated machine is possible, but I don't think it is really practical. I can get into the details if you like, but in the end you have way too much cost for what would turn out to be a half a$$ job. (think no touch automatic car wash vs full hand detailing).

What could work is a an attachment to the existing tug that would allow a person to clean the beam without the need to any kind of a lift.

One problem with frequent pressure washing of concrete is that it will remove some of the concrete along with the dirt and mold. Maybe the beams just can't take it any longer and they need to come up with a low pressure solution?

 

[Master Yoda]

One problem with frequent pressure washing of concrete is that it will remove some of the concrete along with the dirt and mold. Maybe the beams just can't take it any longer and they need to come up with a low pressure solution?

Quite true.

I have yet to see a low pressure method that produces even similar results. Most just involve spraying the concrete with a laundry list of chemicals to kill mold, fungus, etc. which can come with its own set of problems.

 

[Goofyernmost]

For cleaning concrete, your nozzle will need to be at the most 12" away from the surface. Realistically that number would be 6" or closer.

It is also my understanding that the power rail is an open, un-insulated point of contact...like the third rail on a train. There is not enough beer in the keg to get me run a pressure washer next to that with power running through it.

An automated machine is possible, but I don't think it is really practical. I can get into the details if you like, but in the end you have way too much cost for what would turn out to be a half a$$ job. (think no touch automatic car wash vs full hand detailing).

What could work is a an attachment to the existing tug that would allow a person to clean the beam without the need to any kind of a lift.

I agree and that brings up another expensive and nightmarish problem, water! The majority of the beams are in remote areas which I would guess do not have a water supply which I'm sure is required to power wash. I stated before that to really clean them it would need more then just water. What kind of chemicals can be used to loosen that rubber residue, left from the tires, and get back down to just concrete again that wouldn't have adverse affects on the flora in that area.

Then there are the parts over water. How do you get to those locations easily? Or for that matter the section of the track that comes out of the Contemporary that's about a gazillion miles up in the air. Yes, it can be gotten to, obviously, since it was installed at one point in time, but, I would think with specialized equipment.

Even if one considers an attachment or two on the tugs, they would still have to have access to water to clean the section. I can even picture that type of attachment, but, in my vision it would require a massive tanker attachment as well a lighting bars and I cannot see that as being a cheap option. It seems that as casual guests of the resort, we tend to over-simplify our thoughts about the degree of difficulty some things might be.

I also would love to see the tracks clean and clear like they were when they were new, but, since it really isn't essential to my enjoyment of the resort, I can let it go and allow the fact that reality of being in an imperfect world sometimes restricts some of our more intense needs. I have yet to be able to see the beam when I am riding in the Monorail. It comes back to that old saying... "Sure, everyone wants to eat sausage, but, no one wants to see how it's made."

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

One problem with frequent pressure washing of concrete is that it will remove some of the concrete along with the dirt and mold. Maybe the beams just can't take it any longer and they need to come up with a low pressure solution?

I found an old topic on details and structural integrity of the beams-
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/does-the-monorail-track-get-rehabbed.38781/

Concrete is capable of lasting an obscenely long time if properly constructed, even with substantial use and wear. Though it can be easily damaged as any other material if built poorly. Apparently the monorail beams are very well built. Any work they ever need is probably very minor, such as resurfacing (which is addressed in that thread).

Leaving mold or mildews alone can also cause more damage in the long run than cleaning it off, even to concrete. It can absorb into surfaces and help trap moisture in.

 

[Master Yoda]

I agree and that brings up another expensive and nightmarish problem, water! The majority of the beams are in remote areas which I would guess do not have a water supply which I'm sure is required to power wash. I stated before that to really clean them it would need more then just water. What kind of chemicals can be used to loosen that rubber residue, left from the tires, and get back down to just concrete again that wouldn't have adverse affects on the flora in that area.

Then there are the parts over water. How do you get to those locations easily? Or for that matter the section of the track that comes out of the Contemporary that's about a gazillion miles up in the air. Yes, it can be gotten to, obviously, since it was installed at one point in time, but, I would think with specialized equipment.

Even if one considers an attachment or two on the tugs, they would still have to have access to water to clean the section. I can even picture that type of attachment, but, in my vision it would require a massive tanker attachment as well a lighting bars and I cannot see that as being a cheap option. It seems that as casual guests of the resort, we tend to over-simplify our thoughts about the degree of difficulty some things might be.

I also would love to see the tracks clean and clear like they were when they were new, but, since it really isn't essential to my enjoyment of the resort, I can let it go and allow the fact that reality of being in an imperfect world sometimes restricts some of our more intense needs. I have yet to be able to see the beam when I am riding in the Monorail. It comes back to that old saying... "Sure, everyone wants to eat sausage, but, no one wants to see how it's made."

Getting water there is not too much of a problem. Mobile pressure washing rigs with their own water supply are pretty common. Most pressure washers only use around 3 gallons per minute or less. You car run one almost continuously for an 8 hour day from a 1000- 1500 gallon tank.

Chemicals added to the water are a problem like you stated. For that reason, I would have to think that they would have to deal with whatever quality cleaning with straight water would give them.