Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Rise doesn't feel like a warehouse for at least two reasons: the goal was to create realistic, full scale rooms and sets to move through, as opposed to MMRR which takes an abstract approach to its scene design (regarding scale and not the fact that they're animated) and has to shuffle around four vehicles instead of two, requiring larger, more open rooms.

The first two post-track switch scenes are the worst offenders. let's examine them:

The western scene - this scene doesn't work at all for me because of the scale. Mickey and Minnie are projected as approximately one foot in height, but are only a few feet from you. Scenic detail and depth are all projected onto the flat walls. It doesn't feel like you're physically in the scene at all, just riding around watching animations be projected. The floor is big and open to accommodate the four vehicles side by side, adding to the flatness. Aside from the centerpiece, the scene is entirely flat except for the rocks which protrude out a bit.

The carnival scene - this one works a bit better for scale. The stands and kiosks are offset from the wall which has taller structures projected onto it, which gives a decent perception of depth. Mickey and Minnie are full size physical figures here again. The main issue here is still the big open floor to accommodate all four vehicles to occupy, side by side, at the same time. Again, having that much visible open floor space kills any sense of immersion.

These are followed by the tornado scene which inexplicably wastes a lot of space and is void of any detail. The following volcano/underwater scene similarly reduces most of its visual depth and detail to projecting onto the flat walls above you.

The remaining scenes are much better and more immersive and, IMO, are how every scene should have been approached:

The busy city street is a realistic scale loaded with physical depth and detail rather than reducing this to projections on the walls. If it had taken the approach of the previous rooms, the buildings would not actually be 3D and would also entirely be projections. The vehicles ride through this scene in single file, reducing the open floor space and allowing for the sets to be closer to the rider. This creates a more intimate feel. Also, physically traversing through a scene as opposed to just watching it unfold around you is a key element to dark ride immersion that is missing from the first half of the ride. (side note: this is also why Kong, Fast & Furious, and a decent portion of Gringotts at UOR fall short of being immersive and engaging experiences).

The dance scene is a little too barren, but having a low ceiling visually separates it from the rest of the attraction and makes it convincing enough that you actually entered one of the buildings. Thinking back to GMR, it had multiple segments with lower ceilings which creates variety and aides in the illusion of not being inside a warehouse.

The factory/park and finale picnic scenes, like the city street scene, have plenty of physical setpieces placed at varying distances between the rider and the walls, so they don't feel flat. The vehicles also once again ride in single file here, reducing the amount of open floor space.

Conclusion: if the entire ride had been designed like the second half of the attraction, I don't think there would be "warehouse" complaints. Much of this is due to the first few scenes feeling the need to show off the trackless vehicle technology. Any attempt at doing this detracts from immersion in some way, either by calling attention to the ride system or by requiring large, open floor space. For this reason I do not care to see more trackless ride systems of this type.

Afterthought: It's crazy to think of what a journey GMR felt like compared to the comparatively small amount of scenes and short ride time in MMRR and that they occupy the same amount of physical space.
 
Last edited:

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
They didn't mean "rides that happen to take place in a big warehouse", they meant "rides that FEEL like they take place in a big warehouse".

The Haunted Mansion is a carefully curated attraction, with scenes that vary from intimate and intricately outfitted to impressively scaled but still immersively designed. It is in a Giant Warehouse without ever feeling like it. The closest you come to noticing is in the Graveyard, bit theres so much happening at ground level with animatronics and effects that your eye really doesn't ever linger near the ceiling, which is dark like the night sky anyway.

Runaway Railway is an attraction where more than half of its showscenes feel like you're in a big, boxy room full of vast expanses that's just been projection mapped to hell. Which, in a lot of cases, is exactly what they are. Those rooms feel like they take place in the warehouse you're meant to forget exists. The expanses in these rooms is an unfortunate side effect of needing space for the Trackless Vehicles to roam around, whereas a tracked attraction can afford to bring the ride envelope in closer given the in-line nature of the ride vehicle's travel.

Rise of the Resistance does a better job negotiating this - the rooms are still wide, but are so fully themed that they never feel like empty space, and the Tandem Trackless Vehicles travel both together in an in-line fashion and all alone by themselves through more than one scene, allowing things to come in closer to the guests. Beauty and the Beast in Tokyo seems to be an example that goes the opposite direction - the vehicles are even bigger than usual, and some of the rooms feel overly large for their contents given how much open space the vehicles need.
I love the HM but it makes 0 sense. There is no way in hell the whole ride fits in that mansion. Thus, the enormous showbuilding is obvious unlike in rides like PotC and Splash Mountain. For example, in the scene with the clock, if you look up, there is a hole in the ceiling where you can see the flashes of light from the graveyard scene! I love HM, but it’s very obvious it’s in a showbuilding.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
I love the HM but it makes 0 sense. There is no way in hell the whole ride fits in that mansion. Thus, the enormous showbuilding is obvious unlike in rides like PotC and Splash Mountain. For example, in the scene with the clock, if you look up, there is a hole in the ceiling where you can see the flashes of light from the graveyard scene! I love HM, but it’s very obvious it’s in a showbuilding.
You are actively going out of your way to avoid the point being made at this point. Yes, a keen eye will recognize that they’re not actually in the small facade out front and rather in a huge building. The scenes within the ride actively try to disguise this, though. And are, for the most part, successful. The most warehouse-like scene in Haunted Mansion would be the graveyard scene, but lets compare it to MMRR’s scenes:

HM Graveyard:
- narrow and fixed ride track means props and sets are almost close enough for the rider to touch.
- from the ride track to the wall, completely loaded with props, sets, and characters. Forced perspective is used to make the scene seem bigger than it is.
- The actual walls of the room are hidden by being shrouded in darkness. Scrims are also used throughout to further hide the walls and create depth.

MMRR:
- very large, open, flat floor space for vehicles
- the flat walls are not only exposed, most of the scenic detail is projection-mapped onto them. This wouldn’t be as big of an issue if, as I mentioned in my previous post,
- the first half of the attraction has almost no props or physical depth between the vehicle floor space and said walls.

So while both scenes take place in big open rooms, one is loaded with depth and detail and the other is very flat while actively calling attention to the fact by making you look AT the flatness.
 
Last edited:

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
You are actively going out of your way to avoid the point being made at this point. Yes, a keen eye will recognize that they’re not actually in the small facade out front and rather in a huge building. The scenes within the ride actively try to disguise this, though. And are, for the most part, successful. The most warehouse-like scene in Haunted Mansion would be the graveyard scene, but lets compare it to MMRR’s scenes:

HM Graveyard:
- narrow and fixed ride track means props and sets are almost close enough for the rider to touch.
- from the ride track to the wall, completely loaded with props, sets, and characters. Forced perspective is used to make the scene seem bigger than it is.
- The actual walls of the room are hidden by being shrouded in darkness. Scrims are also used throughout to further hide the walls and create depth.

MMRR:
- very large, open, flat floor space for vehicles
- the flat walls are not only exposed, most of the scenic detail is projection-mapped onto them. This wouldn’t be as big of an issue if, as I mentioned in my previous post,
- the first half of the attraction has almost no props or physical depth between the vehicle floor space and said walls.

So while both scenes take place in big open rooms, one is loaded with depth and detail and the other is very flat while actively calling attention to the fact by making you look AT the flatness.
I disagree. The most “warehouse” like room at HM would be the ballroom scene (my fav scene). Don’t get me wrong, I love HM. However, (don’t kill me this) I like MMRR more than HM.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Like I said, Rise of the Resistance does a better job hiding the "warehouse-ness" with the same ride system, so it's not like it can't be done.

I think this is partially a function of the IP/setting in use. Rooms inside a Star Destroyer are supposed to be giant and relatively empty; that's how they look in the movies. It just feels natural to the IP in a way that the rooms in a ride like BatB don't.

I said this elsewhere, but I think it's a fundamental flaw of trackless ride systems -- they have to have far more open space than a tracked ride because the vehicles need so much flat space to maneuver through, especially since there are multiple vehicles in one room moving around each other.

With that said, though, I think this is an issue for recent Disney regardless of the trackless vehicles. Frozen Ever after suffers from the same empty warehouse problem; NRJ is the only recent ride (other than RotR) that really feels like you've been transported to another location (and it has its own issues). The trackless system exacerbates the problem and requires a different approach than a standard dark ride, though.

As for the suggestion of a more intimate trackless ride... I think that's almost impossible. Although I think they could do some really interesting stuff if there was only one vehicle per room/area, that would make the hourly capacity so small that it wouldn't be worth building the ride (which I think is another fundamental flaw of the trackless system in general).
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
You are still mixing up "being made aware that the ride is inside a warehouse" vs "literally looking and feeling like a warehouse"
And that is where "willing suspension of disbelief" kicks in or at least should kick in. In a fan based media like this one, I think we tend to over evaluate and focus on things that shouldn't matter if we are allowing ourselves to just be free and be that child again that we all so readily talk about. We talk it, but doing it is much more difficult. It would be hard to find an attraction that could lend itself to being associated with "warehouse" more then TGMR was or even World of Energy or Test Track was, but we didn't ever think of it that way because we were much more focused on the show itself then where or what it was located in. It's more when we get bored and start to nitpick the details that we get sidetracked on to unimportant things that come from within ourselves and not what should be reasonably expected.
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Why does masonry construction preclude the use of shingles?
After the first few scenes, HM at MK is almost a carbon copy of DL’s, to the point where the holes in the ceiling are in the same places. The roof when you descend from the attic was designed for the DL mansion, not MK’s.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
After the first few scenes, HM at MK is almost a carbon copy of DL’s, to the point where the holes in the ceiling are in the same places. The roof when you descend from the attic was designed for the DL mansion, not MK’s.
I honestly have no idea what you are going on about and I am not sure you do either. You claimed there was something wrong about a masonry structure using shingles on its roof. The roof of the Magic Kingdom manor is shingled with ornamental ironwork just like you see in the ride. Are you saying the type of shingles don't match what is seen out front? Now you're talking about a ceiling, when an attic by definition is the space between a ceiling and roof. It's a haunted house where rooms stretch. The geometry not lining up is completely in line with the lore and places like the Winchester Mystery House.
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
I honestly have no idea what you are going on about and I am not sure you do either. You claimed there was something wrong about a masonry structure using shingles on its roof. The roof of the Magic Kingdom manor is shingled with ornamental ironwork just like you see in the ride. Are you saying the type of shingles don't match what is seen out front? Now you're talking about a ceiling, when an attic by definition is the space between a ceiling and roof. It's a haunted house where rooms stretch. The geometry not lining up is completely in line with the lore and places like the Winchester Mystery House.
You’re completely misunderstanding what I’m saying. When when you exit the attic scene, you’re going down, on you’re right is a roof, this roof does not match the roof of the mansion. Not the end of the world. Just an observation. No need to be so condescending all the time haha. Cheer up! Maybe you can’t if you live in a locked down state. In which case, come to WDW!
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom