eddie104
Well-Known Member
Don't you get so tired of all theme experts on here who think they know better than Disney themselves ? So many arrogant posters on this forum.
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Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed
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ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
He can be immortalized in Florida like Gamora and Dumbledore.
No Name
Well-Known Member
And so immersion into worlds with animals is a valid theme that unites all the attractions at DAK. Right?
Let’s not look at the stories and themes of the lands and attractions themselves. On Everest, the Yeti doesn’t like the fact that the railroad is being built through his home, and in Kali River Rapids, illegal logging destroys animals homes, as humanity so often does in the real world. Kilimanjaro Safaris used to have the poaching storyline, but even the newest IP-based addition, Pandora, centers around an old mining company having harmed the planet before it was restored and research conducted to help foster life.
But what’s all that nonsense? It looks like the only thing these attractions have in common is that they contain animals. Nothing about animals and about protecting and respecting them, just the mere presence of animals. That’s why I argue for Zootopia in DAK every day, because it has lots of animals, and therefore fits well!
In all seriousness, the point is that, relative to Disney’s other parks, the theme you suggest as acceptable for DHS is in fact extremely shallow. Under the theme you suggest, Pandora would fit in DHS regardless of the content of the land itself but simply because of the medium of its source material. That’s incredibly tangential and shallow.
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Rich Brownn
Well-Known Member
Zootopia doesn't have animal. It has humans animated to look like animals. There's a differenceAnd so immersion into worlds with animals is a valid theme that unites all the attractions at DAK. Right?
Let’s not look at the stories and themes of the lands and attractions themselves. On Everest, the Yeti doesn’t like the fact that the railroad is being built through his home, and in Kali River Rapids, illegal logging destroys animals homes, as humanity so often does in the real world. Kilimanjaro Safaris used to have the poaching storyline, but even the newest IP-based addition, Pandora, centers around an old mining company having harmed the planet before it was restored and research conducted to help foster life.
But what’s all that nonsense? It looks like the only thing these attractions have in common is that they contain animals. Nothing about animals and about protecting and respecting them, just the mere presence of animals. That’s why I argue for Zootopia in DAK every day, because it has lots of animals, and therefore fits well!
In all seriousness, the point is that, relative to Disney’s other parks, the theme you suggest as acceptable for DHS is in fact extremely shallow. Under the theme you suggest, Pandora would fit in DHS regardless of the content of the land itself but simply because of the medium of its source material. That’s incredibly tangential and shallow.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
They’re anthropomorphic animals, which are used widely in Disney films.
ProjectXBlog
Well-Known Member
what do you believe the theme of DHS was, if it ever had one? i understand your point on AK but i believe DHS has never had a unifying theme in the same veinAnd so immersion into worlds with animals is a valid theme that unites all the attractions at DAK. Right?
Let’s not look at the stories and themes of the lands and attractions themselves. On Everest, the Yeti doesn’t like the fact that the railroad is being built through his home, and in Kali River Rapids, illegal logging destroys animals homes, as humanity so often does in the real world. Kilimanjaro Safaris used to have the poaching storyline, but even the newest IP-based addition, Pandora, centers around an old mining company having harmed the planet before it was restored and research conducted to help foster life.
But what’s all that nonsense? It looks like the only thing these attractions have in common is that they contain animals. Nothing about animals and about protecting and respecting them, just the mere presence of animals. That’s why I argue for Zootopia in DAK every day, because it has lots of animals, and therefore fits well!
In all seriousness, the point is that, relative to Disney’s other parks, the theme you suggest as acceptable for DHS is in fact extremely shallow. Under the theme you suggest, Pandora would fit in DHS regardless of the content of the land itself but simply because of the medium of its source material. That’s incredibly tangential and shallow.
bclane
Well-Known Member
MickeyMinnieMom
Well-Known Member
mary2013
Active Member
To compete with Universal Studios.
ProjectXBlog
Well-Known Member
Rich Brownn
Well-Known Member
Which means basically humans represented as animals. Same thing. The point being they do not belong in Animal Kingdom as they are not representative of any actual animals, real or imagined,
I'm one of them. I think I know better than Disney... at times. Especially when they screw up.
Disney does dumb things at times (cf. Pixar Pier). They do things which aren't 100% pure but still fun (cf. Toy Story Land). And sometimes they nail it. So, I don't need people who think Disney is always right or always wrong to define 'theme' for me.
I know the difference between theming and setting because I had Freshman English... And a liberal arts degree to follow that up. And a philosophy degree to follow that up.
I don't need Disney as a commercial enterprise who have done wonderful and not so wonderful things *right from the beginning* to define 'theme' for me. Nor do I need theme park connoisseurs to define it for me, especially when they do so inconsistently and refuse to be pinned down on a definition of theming because some of their favorite things wouldn't fit that definition. Nor do I need theme park fans who mistake nostalgia ("it's always been that way") or personal desires ("that's not how I would do it") their definition of theme.
I can think for myself and my opinion is mine. I try to be internally consistent. I expect other opinions to be internally consistent, or, at least, self-aware of their inconsistencies. This is where the rub is, when I point out the inconsistencies they don't think they have.
MickeyMinnieMom
Well-Known Member
On the internet?? Bless you.
No Name
Well-Known Member
I’m glad you see that difference.
The Tower of Terror isn’t just a ride set in the universe of the Twilight Zone, guests are shown old footage of a lost episode until they ironically choose to experience the horrors for themselves. On RnRC riders are just looking at the recoding studio until they feel the thrill of being whisked to backstage of a concert. On the Great Movie Ride guests are passive viewers until their tour becomes part of the movies. The Indiana Jones stunt show displays impressive stunts before highlighting the production as guests join the performance itself. Animation building, backlot tour, streets of Hollywood, etc. I could go forever. Point being that the park strongly inspired an appreciation and love for Hollywood as an entity, including the stars, the production people, and the great storytellers through passively putting guests in front of the medium before actively putting them inside of it. DHS (and USO) both particularly inspired my love for great storytelling and largely shaped my career. Those parks are probably the reason I’m typing this right now. The call to action worked. DAK is pretty great but I still use plastic straws.
Even if you like what they’re doing with TSL and SWL, I have this to ask. When they’ve only put major IP-based rides and lands in all four parks for the last decade+, what makes the current idea for DHS anything unique?
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TJJohn12
Well-Known Member
I was vaguely with you until your last paragraph. The “problem” as you’re describing it is not IP persay, but the execution of the IP’s use and it’s underlying message.
All the examples you explicitly listed are IP based. Heck, the park itself when it opened was IP branded - it had the MGM Lion in its logo.
I think the shift you’re feeling from MGM to DHS is one of thematic consistency that started much further back than you peg it. You’re right in that the original theme of the park could have been phrased, “respect and honor of the craft of filmmaking.” But I actually think that theme started to break down when they added ToT. It’s the first fully realized environment in the park. They never roll the styrofoam boulder back up the track. You never see the steel girders behind the false flats. You *are* stepping into the Twilight Zone, not the set of a TZ episode in production.
The ToT’s theme is not “respect for filmmaking,” in that it doesn’t acknowledge it’s a false environment. Its theme is more akin to “the fantastic and impossible is possible.” And almost every addition to the park since then has trended more toward this line (with the exception of LAM).
MMRR feels thematically consistent with the newer theme of DHS, which is really that the fantasy lands of film and entertainment can be real. Here, the world of Mickey’s cartoons is a real place you get sucked into.
I don’t think that people are chafing at “no theme,” I think they’re chafing at a theme they don’t like and that is more fantasy based than grounded in “reality.”
No Name
Well-Known Member
“The fantasy lands of film and entertainment can be real.” In that case, what makes Cars Land, Pandora, etc. not fit in DHS though? Heck, does every attraction Disney has built stateside since 2006 inherently fit in DHS?
I think Star Tours and TSMM are better examples of how the shift started further back. The ToT is not exactly the same because you’re ironically shown and told exactly what’s about to happen on the ride before you are directly invited to experience it for yourself. On the ride, everything happens just as you were told, with narration too. What other ride does that? Guests are actively and consciously stepping into the lost episode. Here’s the difference... Galaxy’s Edge avoids the Star Wars logo because it doesn’t make thematic sense, whereas ToT incorporates the Twilight Zone intro and logo in the story of the attraction. The former is ignoring the fact that it’s a media franchise, the latter is incorporating the fact that it’s a media franchise.
Explicitly acknowledging the false environment as you mention with the girders and whatnot sometimes has the adverse effect of pulling you out of the story rather than pulling you into it. That was one of the problems with the original park. But the ToT is well-executed, in my opinion, and I think that’s a widely-shared opinion. It is fantasy-based and that’s central to the story.
MMRR sounds like it’s in the same vein as the ToT, GMR, or even RnRC which I think has proven most compelling among guests. I’m excited for that.
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TJJohn12
Well-Known Member
Again, I'm buying most of what you're selling. I think ToT is the entering wedge, and TSMM walked in through the door it began opening. I don't quite see Star Tours as the same thing, in so much as the AT-AT and Ewok village have exposed girders ala Streets of New York, and Tatooine Traders has had (until recently) rigging, flats, and lighting equipment. I can't find interior shots of Endor Vendors, so I'm not sure what was there in '89. For me, that's still a "Hot Set" style theme, versus a fully realized environment.
I personally appreciate the newer theming over the old school exposed girders precisely for the reason you state - it was an immersion in an inherently false place.
As for whether Carsland or Pandora would fit in DHS - I think you're right. They would. And I think you're spot on that almost anything they've built lately stateside (at least from scratch) likely would as well. But I wager that's an artifact of the competition changing the game and broader public expectations. Because Universal's claim-to-fame is "ride the movies" and that bends towards immersion, then what's built to compete in the same markets will bend likewise. Pandora is an immersive film-fantasy-come-to-life environment because Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley are.
I'm stoked for MMRR because it fits the newer theme of DHS like a glove, as well as the theme of the area it's set in (Hollywood Blvd. and the Grauman's is a perfect setting for a grand premiere conceit). It's a perfect "the door opens to a fantasy world for you" experience. And being inside one of the park's icons is icing on the cake.
JenniferS
When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
I’ve already asked. Numerous times.One of the reaction emojis on this site besides 'like' etc really should be
George Sanderson
Member
I need this on a t-shirt to wear in the parks!