Magic Kingdom to test earlier closing on Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party event nights

[ford91exploder]

I also noticed that it depends on when you start counting:

2002-2017 is 75% increase
2006-2017 is 16% increase

My guess is that the goal of this will be every night is a MNSSHP/MVMCP night from Sept 1st to Jan 1st with the exception of about a week after Halloween while the switchover happens, but they could cut that short, too. There's no reason why this should be included with your regular day ticket because: candy and cookies. That warrants the $100/ea upcharge.

People are willing to pay it as there doesn't appear to be any crowd limitation either natural, by customers not paying, or enforced by trying to keep the sizes small since it's an extra magical event (other than normal park limitations). More power to them.

It turns me off, though. It's why I go elsewhere, now.

It's the 'sell the park TWICE' dynamic only gonna get worse as time goes on.

 

[ford91exploder]

You can still go. As a regular guest you just get to pay twice.

How Disney doesn't see this as affecting regular guest experience and return visits is beyond me. I think that all they see is: We're selling the park twice each day! We're some kind of financial geniuses!!!
...and no thought to the future.

The only thing that matters to Disney these days is this quarters numbers need to be better than last quarters.

 

[TrojanUSC]

You also have to factor in the cost changes. When you look at the hard ticket parties, the overall picture does feel rather sinister.

In 2002, MVMCP cost $34/ticket.

For 2017, they range from $90 to $110.

So, the price has tripled.

Double the events. Triple the price.

THAT is the issue. It wasn't as big a deal back when they were so much cheaper. It was a lot easier for the proverbial "family of four" to budget $150 for a party. Now we are talking $400 for a single night in the MK.

And that isn't even mentioning the fact that the unique offerings as part of the party have been reduced so much, or how many more tickets they are selling, exponentially increasing the crowd levels (and the overall experience) enormously.

It's the same pattern we see over and over at WDW. Prices have skyrocketed past any semblance of reason. Offerings have at the very least stayed the same, or in many cases been systematically reduced. In the case of the parties specifically, impact on other guests has greatly increased, and the value of the events themselves, both perceived and empirically measurable, has reduced significantly.

Happy Holidays, WDW style...

The crowd levels are a major issue. Back in the early '00s, they capped it at 10-15k, to make the park feel quiet and that this was a "special" event. Most attractions were walk-ons and there were little to no lines for food & beverage.

 

[John park hopper]

So, do I understand this correctly I buy a park pass for the day, but if I want to stay the entire time MK is open I have to buy another pass if not WDW will allow me to spend money in the resturants and gift shops but not use the attractions. If this is corrct what a money grab, I can't believe people fall for this.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So, do I understand this correctly I buy a park pass for the day, but if I want to stay the entire time MK is open I have to buy another pass if not WDW will allow me to spend money in the resturants and gift shops but not use the attractions. If this is corrct what a money grab, I can't believe people fall for this.

The ticket you buy for the day, if it's for just one day at the MK, then it has an advertised time of 8 AM to 6 PM. You can decide if that's worth it to you. Or, buy a one day ticket for a day the park is open 8 AM to 9 PM on some other day of the week.

If you buy tickets for a bunch of days then those tickets can be applied to any day whether the park closes at 6 PM or 9 PM. You'd probably want to chose the day it closes at 9 PM.

If you want to go to the MK from 4 PM to 12 AM on a Party Day, then you buy a Party Ticket for that.

People who want to go to the park for 8 hours and enjoy the Party, can forego going earlier and spending for the 'double ticket.'

If, however, you want to go the MK from 8 AM to 12 AM on a Party Day, then, yes, you need to buy a day-ticket and a party ticket. If you have an annual pass, then you just buy the evening Party Ticket and still go all day (annual pass holders wind up paying a lot less for each day at any park than those who buy day-tickets, so, the total cost for them needs to account for that discount).

 

[Horizons '83]

The only thing that matters to Disney these days is this quarters numbers need to be better than last quarters.

That is what happens when you are a slave to Wall Street, all publicly traded companies have to perform Quarter over Quarter, Year over Year. That is just the nature of the business they are in.

 

[peter11435]

So, do I understand this correctly I buy a park pass for the day, but if I want to stay the entire time MK is open I have to buy another pass if not WDW will allow me to spend money in the resturants and gift shops but not use the attractions. If this is corrct what a money grab, I can't believe people fall for this.

If you buy a park pass for the day then the entire time MK is open is 8:00-6:00.

 

[Brad Bishop]

The ticket you buy for the day, if it's for just one day at the MK, then it has an advertised time of 8 AM to 6 PM. You can decide if that's worth it to you. Or, buy a one day ticket for a day the park is open 8 AM to 9 PM on some other day of the week.

If you buy tickets for a bunch of days then those tickets can be applied to any day whether the park closes at 6 PM or 9 PM. You'd probably want to chose the day it closes at 9 PM.

If you want to go to the MK from 4 PM to 12 AM on a Party Day, then you buy a Party Ticket for that.

People who want to go to the park for 8 hours and enjoy the Party, can forego going earlier and spending for the 'double ticket.'

If, however, you want to go the MK from 8 AM to 12 AM on a Party Day, then, yes, you need to buy a day-ticket and a party ticket. If you have an annual pass, then you just buy the evening Party Ticket and still go all day (annual pass holders wind up paying a lot less for each day at any park than those who buy day-tickets, so, the total cost for them needs to account for that discount).

Also note, assuming they're still doing this, that a guest does have the option of paying for the extra magical breakfast deal which gets you in an hour or two before the park opens, plus breakfast, for $80/ea. It's just another option if you want the entire day at the MK.

They could really sell it by the hour and everything you said would be exactly right. It's their prerogative to do that. You could explain everything you just did, which is factual, and say, "It's up to you to decide if you want to pay for the MK by the hour @ $20/hr/ea."

The interesting thing, which no one has really thought about or mentioned, yet: "By the hour" (or even by the minute @ 33¢/min/ea would be a better deal for the guest. Instead of buying a day ticket for some arbitrary amount of time which changes based on parties/nights/etc., you're just paying for the time you use. If you want to stay the full day then you pay the full day's price. If you only want to come in in the evening at 7PM and stay to 10PM then you only pay for 3hrs. It would encourage people to leave who aren't so keen on being there and are just "hanging out"/"looking for something to do". It would stop people from trying to get their "full value" of the ticket and they could just use what they want to use.

It'd probably increase overall capacity of the park because you'd have more guests/day which means more individual wallets/day.

I know people like the "all-you-can-eat" style of purchasing things but it really doesn't work in your favor. I also think that paying by the min would be a far more honest approach than the current system.

Looking at the current system:
Let's say you purchased a day ticket. This is $125 but the number of hours it covers varies pretty greatly (though, as noted, they're posted so it's your choice). It may be a short day of 9AM-6PM (9hrs) or a particularly long day of 8AM-midnight (16hrs). That's a pretty good difference.

Now consider a party day and you're going during the day and night: Your day ticket covers you from 9AM-7PM (10hrs) and your party ticket covers you from 4PM-midnight (8hrs). You're not getting 18hrs out of the park, though. You're buying 3 overlapping hours which, as noted above, you could certainly say, "Well, you knew that going in..," still, it's the same game that other companies play to sell you more than you really want/need.

Think how you buy 3GB, 6GB, 10GB, etc from your mobile carrier - it's all about you buying more than you need. You'd be better off just paying some ¢/MB amount. Then you're only paying for what you use and not ending up buying waste, which is what the business model for most of these companies are. If you're a heavy user then you're going to pay more - but that makes complete sense. If you're grandma and you're only doing some instant messaging, then you'd pay WAY less - that too makes complete sense.

The current system of selling the park multiple times a day doesn't make a lot of sense and isn't a good guest experience.

 

[djkidkaz]

The park is MUCH less busy on party days so in theory you would probably have a less hassled, much better experience and be able to ride more attractions in less time.

But if you want to pay money for a busier, more hectic experience for a few more hours then that option is available too.

 

[ford91exploder]

I remember going to the MVMCP in 2004, and everyone had the opportunity to get their picture taken (in the old Timekeeper space). You would order what you wanted, you also got a special MVMCP frame with your pictures, and they were ready for pickup by the end of the night. It wasn't crowded, even for Holiday Wishes!. I also seem to remember hot chocolate and cookies and other treats available almost *everywhere*, but that could just be 13 years of other junk clouding my memories.

No you remember correctly we also have one of those pictures and frames. And the price was what 35 bucks and the treat locations were EVERYWHERE as opposed to the few that existed in the 2014 party which is the last one we went to because we felt the VALUE no longer existed, To us the parties were about the entertainment and storytelling not an opportunity to do rides with shorter lines

 

[Lets Respect]

Maybe instead of building all of these new lands that no one is that interested in, with the exception of SWL, they should build a second MK. Just replicate it right down to the last detail

 

[larryz]

Also note, assuming they're still doing this, that a guest does have the option of paying for the extra magical breakfast deal which gets you in an hour or two before the park opens, plus breakfast, for $80/ea. It's just another option if you want the entire day at the MK.

They could really sell it by the hour and everything you said would be exactly right. It's their prerogative to do that. You could explain everything you just did, which is factual, and say, "It's up to you to decide if you want to pay for the MK by the hour @ $20/hr/ea."

The interesting thing, which no one has really thought about or mentioned, yet: "By the hour" (or even by the minute @ 33¢/min/ea would be a better deal for the guest. Instead of buying a day ticket for some arbitrary amount of time which changes based on parties/nights/etc., you're just paying for the time you use. If you want to stay the full day then you pay the full day's price. If you only want to come in in the evening at 7PM and stay to 10PM then you only pay for 3hrs. It would encourage people to leave who aren't so keen on being there and are just "hanging out"/"looking for something to do". It would stop people from trying to get their "full value" of the ticket and they could just use what they want to use.

It'd probably increase overall capacity of the park because you'd have more guests/day which means more individual wallets/day.

I know people like the "all-you-can-eat" style of purchasing things but it really doesn't work in your favor. I also think that paying by the min would be a far more honest approach than the current system.

Looking at the current system:
Let's say you purchased a day ticket. This is $125 but the number of hours it covers varies pretty greatly (though, as noted, they're posted so it's your choice). It may be a short day of 9AM-6PM (9hrs) or a particularly long day of 8AM-midnight (16hrs). That's a pretty good difference.

Now consider a party day and you're going during the day and night: Your day ticket covers you from 9AM-7PM (10hrs) and your party ticket covers you from 4PM-midnight (8hrs). You're not getting 18hrs out of the park, though. You're buying 3 overlapping hours which, as noted above, you could certainly say, "Well, you knew that going in..," still, it's the same game that other companies play to sell you more than you really want/need.

Think how you buy 3GB, 6GB, 10GB, etc from your mobile carrier - it's all about you buying more than you need. You'd be better off just paying some ¢/MB amount. Then you're only paying for what you use and not ending up buying waste, which is what the business model for most of these companies are. If you're a heavy user then you're going to pay more - but that makes complete sense. If you're grandma and you're only doing some instant messaging, then you'd pay WAY less - that too makes complete sense.

The current system of selling the park multiple times a day doesn't make a lot of sense and isn't a good guest experience.

The issue: Disney has no incentive to change the paradigm. Once they have your $125, they really don't care what you do in the parks, although they'd really like it if you went shopping and dining instead of waiting in lines to ride and see shows.

If you leave after 5 hours, it cost you $25 per hour. If you leave after 10 hours, it cost you $12.50 per hour. But Disney got your $125 up front, and with MagicBands and four years of tracking them, they've got the data to minimize their manpower and other costs so they get to keep as many nickles as they can out of your money.

 

[nbdysreal]

Could be Disney sees what Universal is doing with HHN and no backlash, and going the same route. Open 8-5, closes, then does HHN as a hard ticket that night.

My take? Don't like the hours, don't visit that park that day. There are 3 other parks to visit, and plenty of other days in the year. The only day you can visit a park? That isn't ideal for you, but you do know the hours ahead of time. They don't advertise the hours and then switch. Plus, if you're buying a one day ticket, wouldn't you just buy the party ticket instead of the regular park ticket? MK 1 day ticket on 11/26 is $124 for 9 hours. MVMCP on the same night is $95 for 8.

 

[flynnibus]

Think how you buy 3GB, 6GB, 10GB, etc from your mobile carrier - it's all about you buying more than you need. You'd be better off just paying some ¢/MB amount. Then you're only paying for what you use and not ending up buying waste, which is what the business model for most of these companies are. If you're a heavy user then you're going to pay more - but that makes complete sense. If you're grandma and you're only doing some instant messaging, then you'd pay WAY less - that too makes complete sense.

You can't take the "all u can eat" price and simply divide it... because that's not how the all u can eat price was constructed. Second, a business is not going to change their prices in a way that results in lower revenues. Since everyone is paying full price now, that means to make up for the difference lost for people that only use half the day, prices would go up dramatically. Third... the bulk price is always cheaper per unit because it's encouraging an upsell to boost higher ASP... so buying by the unit is inheritently more expensive per unit. Fourth, the MK is already by far the most visited of the parks... so there isn't really much volume to picked/gain by having reduced pricing... so you wouldn't get the volume boost from new pricing.

The reason why no one talks about this is because it's a customer view pipe dream that makes no business sense. The only way you'd see this kind of "per unit" pricing is when they are trying to raise prices even more... and want to give the impression of lower prices. Aka advertising a per hour price but still requiring a 4hr minimum etc.

 

[flynnibus]

Could be Disney sees what Universal is doing with HHN and no backlash, and going the same route. Open 8-5, closes, then does HHN as a hard ticket that night.

My take? Don't like the hours, don't visit that park that day. There are 3 other parks to visit, and plenty of other days in the year. The only day you can visit a park? That isn't ideal for you, but you do know the hours ahead of time. They don't advertise the hours and then switch. Plus, if you're buying a one day ticket, wouldn't you just buy the party ticket instead of the regular park ticket? MK 1 day ticket on 11/26 is $124 for 9 hours. MVMCP on the same night is $95 for 8.

Your comparison to uni is weak because UNI was filling in a weak time... and not really loosing much operating time (their parks always close early).

And just go to another park?

That is... until Disney starts offering hard ticket events at other parks too... oh wait... already happening. And then we have everyone who is avoiding the party being funneled into the same parks... furthering crowding. And do those other parks offer as much entertainment as mk into the evening??

Your retort is basically "just don't go".... how is that a good response to customers?

 

[nbdysreal]

Your comparison to uni is weak because UNI was filling in a weak time... and not really loosing much operating time (their parks always close early).

And just go to another park?

That is... until Disney starts offering hard ticket events at other parks too... oh wait... already happening. And then we have everyone who is avoiding the party being funneled into the same parks... furthering crowding. And do those other parks offer as much entertainment as mk into the evening??

Your retort is basically "just don't go".... how is that a good response to customers?

I must have missed the second park offering an "after hours party". Who is doing that?

My retort is a perfect retort, as I, too, am a customer and not the retailer. The only way to show displeasure in a company is to not give them your money. I currently still see them as not horrible for my money. When I do feel that way, I will choose other places to spend it at. That being said, I'm not going to buy a one day ticket on a party day...

 

[wdwfan22]

Your comparison to uni is weak because UNI was filling in a weak time... and not really loosing much operating time (their parks always close early).

And just go to another park?

That is... until Disney starts offering hard ticket events at other parks too... oh wait... already happening. And then we have everyone who is avoiding the party being funneled into the same parks... furthering crowding. And do those other parks offer as much entertainment as mk into the evening??

Your retort is basically "just don't go".... how is that a good response to customers?

The comparison isn't really week. Fall use to be a slow time for Disney to, until they increased the popularity with the after hours Halloween/Christmas party's. Universal is now trying to do the same thing. Also as far as I am aware only Magic Kingdom is offering regular after hours events. Hollywood Studios does Galactic nights 1 night a year, so that isn't really a valid point.

 

[ToTBellHop]

That is what happens when you are a slave to Wall Street, all publicly traded companies have to perform Quarter over Quarter, Year over Year. That is just the nature of the business they are in.

You provide events that sell-out?

 

[Brad Bishop]

You provide events that sell-out?

What a lot of us are arguing is: These are short-term gains with, what many of us believe, will be long-term consequences.

You can see this with other companies, for example restaurants, which used bean-counters to alter the ingredients of their food because there's a lag between altering those ingredients and when the public picks up on it and says, "yeah - not as good as it used to be... also more expensive... I'll just go elsewhere..." There's an economic term for that lag which I'm sure someone will fill in (they've done it before).

Yes, for the weeks, months, perhaps even a few years for the lag to take effect, your spreadsheet looks better than before. It tends to catch up to you, though.

Now that I think about it: You can see this sort of thing in the parks. The short-term gain for decades was: little/no improvements. That budget was cut and it looked better on the books. Now DHS is torn up as they scamper to improve it / play catch-up. Now Epcot is languishing. The books looked good, though.

Why ever improve or fix things if the ticket sales the next day will be pretty much the same? That's short-term thinking.

 

[flynnibus]

I must have missed the second park offering an "after hours party". Who is doing that?

DHS. My point was to illustrate that the defense that "MK is only one of the four parks" is weak because it assumes its the only park that does this.. which is something Disney has already shown is not an absolute... and two.. the other parks do not provide a similar alternative for activities at that time of day (or scale).

Truth is MK is the biggest and most complete attraction on property... especially after 8pm. Taking that out of the rotation is not losing 1/4th of the options... its much much bigger.