Magic Kingdom Overhaul as a Response to Epic Universe?

[Disneyhead'71]

Why does there have to be a winner?
Many people that go to the Orlando area do so primarily for Disney and secondary Universal.
So anything either of them do they are both winners as you would label it.

That was Disney's answer in 2010 when Potter opened. That a rising tide raises all boats. Disney assumed that most folks coming for Potter would also visit WDW. But that didn't happen, Disney lost 18% market share. What Disney, and Universal to a certain extent, didn't understand was the increase that Potter brought weren't "theme park fans". They were Potter fans. So not only did they not go to Disney, they didn't even really want to see the rest of Islands of Adventure. It wasn't until Universal instituted return times just to get into the land did the Potter fans start exploring the rest of the park.

I expect people coming for Nintendo to be similar. That is why I said elsewhere on these forums that Disney needs to build a killer Kingdom Hearts attraction/land to tap into Universal bringing in millions of gamers.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

That was Disney's answer in 2010 when Potter opened. That a rising tide raises all boats. Disney assumed that most folks coming for Potter would also visit WDW. But that didn't happen, Disney lost 18% market share. What Disney, and Universal to a certain extent, didn't understand was the increase that Potter brought weren't "theme park fans". They were Potter fans. So not only did they not go to Disney, they didn't even really want to see the rest of Islands of Adventure. It wasn't until Universal instituted return times just to get into the land did the Potter fans start exploring the rest of the park.

I expect people coming for Nintendo to be similar. That is why I said elsewhere on these forums that Disney needs to build a killer Kingdom Hearts attraction/land to tap into Universal bringing in millions of gamers.

To that I say Universal also lost many former loyal visitors by opening what is essentially 2 HP parks because not everyone likes HP.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

To that I say Universal also lost many former loyal visitors by opening what is essentially 2 HP parks because not everyone likes HP.

Between 2010 and 2012, UOR gained almost 8 million turnstile clicks a year.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

The damage would have been less if NFL didn't open 3-4 years after Potter.

...and if it had a true anchor attraction, rather than cutting back the plans for 7DMT and then still pretending it was an e-ticket.

That being said, again, at a minimum something at the scale/immersion-level of SWGE (with RotR open) is what The Magic Kingdom needs in order for it to be the park that represents WDW against Epic Universe. Truly, the scale of MK's expansion should be at the level of WDSP's expansion. It's time.

 

[Den Carter]

IMHO what MK needs is something - anything - to scoop up the crowds, be that new entertainment or a massive e-ticket or two. The MSUSA theatre would’ve been perfect for that, assuming the show schedule would’ve been regular enough. Gutted that one got cancelled.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

To that I say Universal also lost many former loyal visitors by opening what is essentially 2 HP parks because not everyone likes HP.

I can't imagine that the amount of people who said "We love Universal, but we'll never go again if they open that Potter land!" is significant. Like, at all.

Especially, of course, compared to the amount of people who showed up specifically because Potter was added.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

I can't imagine that the amount of people who said "We love Universal, but we'll never go again if they open that Potter land!" is significant. Like, at all.

Especially, of course, compared to the amount of people who showed up specifically because Potter was added.

Well my family is one . I'm sure there are more. Enough to offset profit clearly not but still there are likely more than you think.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Well my family is one . I'm sure there are more. Enough to offset profit clearly not but still there are likely more than you think.

Can you explain to me the logic of that decision? I ask that without judgement, I genuinely don't understand. If you loved everything else the park offers then why would these additions be the last straw? I would think you could just avoid the Potter parts of the parks and enjoy everything else like you did before.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I mean, if you ask me, all Magic Kingdom needs to do to stay relevant is...
1) Maintain the attractions and park
2) Stop value-engineering operational expenses and capacity.
3) Dismantle or significantly re-structure FP+
4) Stop re-selling the park for so much of the year

Oh, and deal with the Monorails. And run a decent, frequent fleet of parking lot trams.

If time, build new attractions.

Genuinely care (or at least, more convincingly pretend to care) about the guest experience beyond the money they bring in.

IMO, that's all they need to do. It's not rocket science.

*Waits for TDO plant to read my post and stare quizzically as if this post was written in Russian*

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Can you explain to me the logic of that decision? I ask that without judgement, I genuinely don't understand. If you loved everything else the park offers then why would these additions be the last straw? I would think you could just avoid the Potter parts of the parks and enjoy everything else like you did before.

The decline of enjoyment occurred over a few visits so we did what we suggest others do when they start complaining about Disney no longer being enjoyable. We simply stopped going.
We only ever went to IOA once and decided we didn't care for it that much. We were also used to going to Cedar Point for our major thrills so it just didn't seem like that big of a deal to go there.
USF was the park we were loyal to.
We loved it in the glory days of Alfred Hitchcock, Murder She Wrote, Hanna Barbera, King Kong, Jaws, Nickelodeon Studios, The original songs/jokes from the Beetle Juice Graveyard Revue, The original version of Earthquake etc.
Slowly but surely those attractions left and what was put in their place was less enjoyable to us.
I'll admit Mummy is cool but really I can't justify going for just that one ride.
July 2014 was the last time we went and we left by 2pm and the majority of the reason we stayed that long was because it was the day after Diagon Alley opened and my niece's friend really wanted to walk around the area and you needed a return time to get in.

 

[justintheharris]

I mean, if you ask me, all Magic Kingdom needs to do to stay relevant is...
1) Maintain the attractions and park
2) Stop value-engineering operational expenses and capacity.
3) Dismantle or significantly re-structure FP+
4) Stop re-selling the park for so much of the year

Oh, and deal with the Monorails. And run a decent, frequent fleet of parking lot trams.

If time, build new attractions.

Genuinely care (or at least, more convincingly pretend to care) about the guest experience beyond the money they bring in.

IMO, that's all they need to do. It's not rocket science.

*Waits for TDO plant to read my post and stare quizzically as if this post was written in Russian*

Well the addition of 2 more e ticket attractions beyond Tron would greatly help the capacity and fastpass issues.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Well the addition of 2 more e ticket attractions beyond Tron would greatly help the capacity and fastpass issues.

It certainly would help, but I think the other issues are honestly more pressing. At least for me personally.

Running what they do have to capacity consistently would be a great start.

 

[Jon81uk]

MK doesn't need new headliners, bringing more guests into the park isn't needed. Tron will be enough for the next 10 years.

But something C or D ticket but people-eating like the scrapped theatre. An attraction that is a big enough draw to get people into the show, but not such a big draw that it gets a huge number of extra visitors into the park. The walkways/monorail/entrance can't cope with a huge additional infix to MK.

More is still needed at DHS and DAK to keep these parks of interest to guests and keep more people out of MK.

 

[Touchdown]

Mickey needs a land in MK. It’s ridiculous you can’t find all the fab 5 in their traditional outfits consistently at MK.

I also think MK needs a Broadway style stage show, I know there was problems with the Town Square location but Caribbean plaza could work as a new location.

it needs a night parade

a new monorail fleet is needed, and if we are talking blue sky, how great would a monorail expansion (or even better thematically) light rail disguised as a stream train spur to WL, Reflections, and Ft Wilderness that would terminate at the TTC and provide access to EPCOT and alternative transport to MK.

 

[justintheharris]

MK doesn't need new headliners, bringing more guests into the park isn't needed. Tron will be enough for the next 10 years.

But something C or D ticket but people-eating like the scrapped theatre. An attraction that is a big enough draw to get people into the show, but not such a big draw that it gets a huge number of extra visitors into the park. The walkways/monorail/entrance can't cope with a huge additional infix to MK.

More is still needed at DHS and DAK to keep these parks of interest to guests and keep more people out of MK.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever been to Disneyland?

 

[Jon81uk]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever been to Disneyland?

Yep twice and it was horrific at fireworks time. They need a lot more investment in California Adventure as well there.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

New Fantasyland didn't stand a chance against Harry Potter. Right out of the gate it should have been clear Potter was going to be the winner.

I always been under the impression that New Fantasyland was not the answer against Harry Potter. I thought Pandora was more of an Answer against Potter. It seemed to me Disney wanted more capacity for MK. What Disney had for the New Fantasyland Expansion was changed between chairman of the parks. The one in 2009 was supposed have a big Pixie Hollow meet and great instead of Storybook Circus land and there was no Snow White Mine Train. All the plans were dueling Dumbos, little mermaid ride with shop, and a Beauty and Beauty mini land without a ride.

Disney at the time New Fantasyland was announced seemed to be the wrong move from the start. WDW in 2009 had major problems at DHS and Epcot. I know DHS had Toy Story Midway Mania open in 2008 and American Idol Experience open in 2009. The catch is Idol did not meet Disney's expectations. I know nothing could have been done for a Star Wars land at the time, but Disney had a chance for a Pixar Place expansion. DHS in 2009 had a Studios Backlot Tour that seen its better days. Lights, Motor, Actions was not a great addition Eisner pulled. LMA is not a show that people in the mid afternoon want to see in the hot summer sun besides being a one and done show.

Epcot in 2009 already had issues with Imagination, Innovations, and Ellen was already very long in the tooth in 2009.

To me what made matters worse for New Fantasy Land is the content. I thought back in 2009 that Beauty and the Beast mini land was not what MK needed considering that mini land had shops, 2 eating places and an interactive meet and greet in Belle's Enchanted Tales. MK in 2009 did need more capacity, but it needed something like a theater, or more rides. The problem is Eating places, shops, and interactive meet and greets are not high capacity items.

The Little Mermaid ride was a mixed bag. The rock worked looked great, but the inside was the issue. The story telling of the ride was disjointed besides parts of the DCA version was changed just a couple years after it opened. That showed Little mermaid was flawed ride from the start. Mine Train is a nice ride only if you have a fast pass plus or wait times are not bad. Story Book Circus land was well themed, but you can tell that section was done cheap like the Circus themed goofy Coaster. The fact is the Goofy coaster was not changed outside of overlays. The money of Storybook want to Dumbo's queue.

 

[justintheharris]

Yep twice and it was horrific at fireworks time. They need a lot more investment in California Adventure as well there.

How long ago was this?

 

[wdwfan4ver]

AK and DHS are still lacking.

AK does not have 10 rides and the same is true with DHS. AK also does have a Dinoland USA problem.

DHS also has the issue of aging daytime shows that needed to get a ride of years ago. DHS also has the issues of how many sections of the park do need for Star wars. Animation Court yard has Star Wars Launch Bay, but it is a mess alone with Little mermaid stage show has been around since 1994. Outside of DHS, Disney does not allow daytime stage shows to last as long as Indiana Jones, Beauty and the Beast, and the Little Mermaid. I don't see Disney really focusing on DHS after

When 2021 D23 comes, AK is going to be 4 years after Pandora. I went AK multiple times since Pandora opened and it seemed the crowds really didn't change for the existing attraction before Pandora.

I don't see MK being a Response to Epic Universe. I think Disney really does not want touch MK after the Tron Coaster.

 

[justintheharris]

AK and DHS are still lacking.

AK does not have 10 rides and the same is true with DHS. AK also does have a Dinoland USA problem.

DHS also has the issue of aging daytime shows that needed to get a ride of years ago. DHS also has the issues of how many sections of the park do need for Star wars. Animation Court yard has Star Wars Launch Bay, but it is a mess alone with Little mermaid stage show has been around since 1994. Outside of DHS, Disney does not allow daytime stage shows to last as long as Indiana Jones, Beauty and the Beast, and the Little Mermaid. I don't see Disney really focusing on DHS after

When 2021 D23 comes, AK is going to be 4 years after Pandora. I went AK multiple times since Pandora opened and it seemed the crowds really didn't change for the existing attraction before Pandora.

I don't see MK being a Response to Epic Universe. I think Disney really does not want touch MK after the Tron Coaster.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you're post correctly but if you're suggesting pre-Pandora and post-Pandora crowds at Animal Kingdom are the same, Animal Kingdom has had double digit attendance increases over two years since Pandora's opening.

And why do you not think Disney would expand upon Magic Kingdom after Tron's opening? I mean after all, Disneyland California has two E tickets on the agenda coming up.