Magic Kingdom...not so magical.

[Lilofan]

So most of your time in the park was spent on your phone getting FPs. Sigh.

I remember the days where you got exercise walking and running in the morning to go to all the FP attractions to get FP. Hard work playing with your phone

 

[Rosanne]

I remember the days where you got exercise walking and running in the morning to go to all the FP attractions to get FP. Hard work playing with your phone

Used to get good overall exercise running to the next Fast Pass ride. Now only the thumbs get exercised. hah

 

[Raineman]

For all of the people blaming the long lines and lack of spontaneity on FPs, understaffing, etc, consider this: think of your local amusement park, ie Six Flags, on a Saturday in the middle of the summer. The park is fully staffed, everyone waits in the same standby line-the chances are still high that almost every line on the most popular rides are still going to be 30-60 minutes, based completely on the number of people in the park that day. Would fully staffed, full capacity attractions with no FPs speed up lines? To a point, yes, but the popular attractions would still be minimum 30-45 minute waits-because of the number of people in the park that day. WDW is one of the top vacation destinations in the world now, and no amount of staffing or queue management systems could ever completely mitigate that-they could help, but not to the point where the wait times would be at the acceptable levels for the "Crowds and wait times were so much better in the old days" crowd. I'm sure that someone will be quick to tell me how wrong I am, or that I am a "pixie duster", so go ahead if it makes you feel better.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I agree with the first half of your statement - however, there is a lot of research on the benefits of animal therapy for anxiety/depression/ mental health issues. Many people do not want to take meds but would rather use a holistic/nature approach. Some people can not take meds.
Animals have a solid place in our anthropological history -

There's a difference between a service animal and a support animal. The biggest is a service animal is covered under the ADA, while support or therapy animals are not.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

For all of the people blaming the long lines and lack of spontaneity on FPs, understaffing, etc, consider this: think of your local amusement park, ie Six Flags, on a Saturday in the middle of the summer. The park is fully staffed, everyone waits in the same standby line-the chances are still high that almost every line on the most popular rides are still going to be 30-60 minutes, based completely on the number of people in the park that day. Would fully staffed, full capacity attractions with no FPs speed up lines? To a point, yes, but the popular attractions would still be minimum 30-45 minute waits-because of the number of people in the park that day. WDW is one of the top vacation destinations in the world now, and no amount of staffing or queue management systems could ever completely mitigate that-they could help, but not to the point where the wait times would be at the acceptable levels for the "Crowds and wait times were so much better in the old days" crowd.

Regional amusement parks are dominated by low capacity cycle rides and coasters with long dispatch times.

Magic Kingdom, at least before, was designed with several rides and theater attractions that could accommodate 1500-3000 people an hour. A park like Six Flags has rides that do at best 1500 an hour.

In the past you may have had to wait 60-90 minutes for Space Mountain, but right after you could do PeopleMover, Carousel of Progress, If You Had Wings, Cricle-Vision and Mission to Mars with little to no wait. Now Buzz Lightyear, a continuously loading ride, has standby waits up to 50 minutes thanks to FastPass. Giving more things FastPass just pushes people out onto walkways looking for others things to do and makes it more difficult to navigate the park.

Optimal staffing and no FP would not eliminate stand by lines for the most popular attractions, but by bringing more and more attractions into the FP fold it's making standby waits longer for everything and the park "feels" more crowded than it really is (or should be).

A perfect example would be Peter Pan. On most days at Tokyo Disneyland wait times are around 30-45 minutes. Far less than WDW, despite it being the same ride, load set up and in a park with similar attendance. The difference? No FastPass for the Japanese version.

 

[Rosanne]

For all of the people blaming the long lines and lack of spontaneity on FPs, understaffing, etc, consider this: think of your local amusement park, ie Six Flags, on a Saturday in the middle of the summer. The park is fully staffed, everyone waits in the same standby line-the chances are still high that almost every line on the most popular rides are still going to be 30-60 minutes, based completely on the number of people in the park that day. Would fully staffed, full capacity attractions with no FPs speed up lines? To a point, yes, but the popular attractions would still be minimum 30-45 minute waits-because of the number of people in the park that day. WDW is one of the top vacation destinations in the world now, and no amount of staffing or queue management systems could ever completely mitigate that-they could help, but not to the point where the wait times would be at the acceptable levels for the "Crowds and wait times were so much better in the old days" crowd. I'm sure that someone will be quick to tell me how wrong I am, or that I am a "pixie duster", so go ahead if it makes you feel better.

Maybe one answer would be to lower the amount of how many people are allowed in the parks daily. Too many people, not enough rides. When you walk in the parks they look empty, then when you get to one of the premium (3 to 5) top rides you find out all the people are really there, just waiting in line.

 

[Jon81uk]

Maybe one answer would be to lower the amount of how many people are allowed in the parks daily. Too many people, not enough rides. When you walk in the parks they look empty, then when you get to one of the premium (3 to 5) top rides you find out all the people are really there, just waiting in line.

That pretty much describes every single theme park or amusement park in the world. The top rides in the park will have a long line.

 

[Raineman]

Maybe one answer would be to lower the amount of how many people are allowed in the parks daily. Too many people, not enough rides. When you walk in the parks they look empty, then when you get to one of the premium (3 to 5) top rides you find out all the people are really there, just waiting in line.

The issue with that solution is that the people who are in the park would have a better experience, but anyone trying to get into the park when capacity is reached, would be turned away, and there would be guest dissatisfaction and anger on that end. It's a lose-lose situation really, when the parks are extremely busy-adjust one way or the other, and some guests are still negatively affected.

 

[NickMaio]

There's a difference between a service animal and a support animal. The biggest is a service animal is covered under the ADA, while support or therapy animals are not.

That was not my point - - - - my point is that both service and support animals have been studied as positive influence towards people with social / emotional issues.
"while support or therapy animals are not." - - - not what??? Beneficial ?
This is definitely not correct - support animals " when trained properly" can have the same impact on a person as a "service" animal.

In fact, without support animals - - - most people with social / emotional issues would not be able to use a "service" animal.
Support animals play a huge role in therapy and development for many people - - - anyone who downplays this simply does not understand their impact.

 

[spacethunder]

Maybe one answer would be to lower the amount of how many people are allowed in the parks daily. Too many people, not enough rides. When you walk in the parks they look empty, then when you get to one of the premium (3 to 5) top rides you find out all the people are really there, just waiting in line.

The other thing that should get more popular are virtual lines. This has been well managed so far as I've heard with rise of the resistance.

But I agree with your sentiment, I've been going to WDW for 35 years now, and it seems to me that since the time they implemented the FP and restaurant reservation system, I've seen a notable decline in (my) guest enjoyment. On a trip last year I waited for 4 hours for Flight of Passage. That's half a day. Because there are so many more people going, the prices are getting out of control. I'm sad to say that while I will continue to go (less frequently), I don't really enjoy it anymore. It was absolutely impossible to get FP for FoP and I checked every single night at midnight 30 days prior to my trip.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I only see this getting worse. Unless there are sweeping changes.

 

[Raineman]

Regional amusement parks are dominated by low capacity cycle rides and coasters with long dispatch times.

Magic Kingdom, at least before, was designed with several rides and theater attractions that could accommodate 1500-3000 people an hour. A park like Six Flags has rides that do at best 1500 an hour.

In the past you may have had to wait 60-90 minutes for Space Mountain, but right after you could do PeopleMover, Carousel of Progress, If You Had Wings, Cricle-Vision and Mission to Mars with little to no wait. Now Buzz Lightyear, a continuously loading ride, has standby waits up to 50 minutes thanks to FastPass. Giving more things FastPass just pushes people out onto walkways looking for others things to do and makes it more difficult to navigate the park.

Optimal staffing and no FP would not eliminate stand by lines for the most popular attractions, but by bringing more and more attractions into the FP fold it's making standby waits longer for everything and the park "feels" more crowded than it really is (or should be).

A perfect example would be Peter Pan. On most days at Tokyo Disneyland wait times are around 30-45 minutes. Far less than WDW, despite it being the same ride, load set up and in a park with similar attendance. The difference? No FastPass for the Japanese version.

As I said in my post, I do agree that fully staffed, full capacity attractions & no FP would help with wait times and crowding-but not to the level that some people seem to think it would. Rose coloured glasses seem to make some think that all lines back in the day before FP and reduced staffing were only 15-20 minutes, when I'm sure that wasn't the case. If the parks are busy, which most days I think you could classify it as busy, the wait times would still be considerable, even with full staffing and no FPed, full capacity attractions. It would be an interesting study if all four parks, for 1 week, eliminated FP and had all staffing levels at peak, and attraction wait times were tracked.

 

[larryz]

The issue with that solution is that the people who are in the park would have a better experience, but anyone trying to get into the park when capacity is reached, would be turned away, and there would be guest dissatisfaction and anger on that end. It's a lose-lose situation really, when the parks are extremely busy-adjust one way or the other, and some guests are still negatively affected.

Well, WDW has no issues with making us reserve dining times and ride times.

It's only a matter of times until you'll have to reserve a slot in the parks 30 days in advance.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Well, WDW has no issues with making us reserve dining times and ride times.

It's only a matter of times until you'll have to reserve a slot in the parks 30 days in advance.

Didn't Tokyo Disneyland originally open as reservations-only?

 

[erasure fan1]

Rose coloured glasses seem to make some think that all lines back in the day before FP and reduced staffing were only 15-20 minutes, when I'm sure that wasn't the case.

Correct, major rides never consistently had15-20 minute waits. What they had was a consistent flowing load that made the ride accessible most parts of the day outside of the peak times. But even then it wasn't bad to wait if you had to. Even though I have no data outside of my own experience. But fastpass on all the omnimover attractions is a train wreck. Never in my 40ish years going to Disney did I ever wait, even at the absolute peak times, more than 20/30 minutes for something like pirates. Now we have have peak times hitting 45/50 minutes. I know I suffer from rose glasses to an extent but if I had to choose, I would pick no fastpass.

 

[Rosanne]

The issue with that solution is that the people who are in the park would have a better experience, but anyone trying to get into the park when capacity is reached, would be turned away, and there would be guest dissatisfaction and anger on that end. It's a lose-lose situation really, when the parks are extremely busy-adjust one way or the other, and some guests are still negatively affected.

The park usually gets closed on 4th of July when they reach their limit & they announce it on TV & radio that the park has reached its limit. Anyone crazy enough to go to a theme park in FL in July shouldnt mind being turned away. The heat, humidity and ridiculous lines...OMG.

 

[bayoubelle]

Think I've posted this before but we sold our DVC membership because of the lack of magic at WDW. If you were not a Disney traveler before the early 2000's you cannot grasp the difference in quality across the board from cleanliness to food to CMs. Basically, the experience has gone from 100% to maybe 70% and I'm being generous with the 70%.

Now, we stay offsite and with the money we save- thousands- we book VIP tours. No having to put up with having to book FP 60 days ahead of time bologna and no worries about being able to get onto the most popular rides. Of course, as I pointed out to one of our guides, before the changes to FP where we could no longer save them for the end of the day, we did as much with just fps and would have saved the $1000+ that we paid for the VIP tour.

Our last trip was April 2018. This is the first time in 2 decades that we have not taken at least 1 and usually multiple trips a year to WDW. I know they don't miss our money but if, as I gather here, others are feeling the same way, corporate will begin to notice. WDW sadly does not have the magic it did.

 

[PiratesMansion]

As I said in my post, I do agree that fully staffed, full capacity attractions & no FP would help with wait times and crowding-but not to the level that some people seem to think it would. Rose coloured glasses seem to make some think that all lines back in the day before FP and reduced staffing were only 15-20 minutes, when I'm sure that wasn't the case. If the parks are busy, which most days I think you could classify it as busy, the wait times would still be considerable, even with full staffing and no FPed, full capacity attractions. It would be an interesting study if all four parks, for 1 week, eliminated FP and had all staffing levels at peak, and attraction wait times were tracked.

I can tell you from experience that you can go to Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland, both parks that are comparably busy and see comparable attendance but see WAY less optimized staffing and significantly fewer FP attractions (along with a better, more user friendly FP system), and get a ton more done per day, and average waits are often far more reasonable.

Yes, Tokyo gets nuts on weekends, but weekday crowds are very comparable to average MK crowds IMO.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Correct, major rides never consistently had15-20 minute waits. What they had was a consistent flowing load that made the ride accessible most parts of the day outside of the peak times. But even then it wasn't bad to wait if you had to. Even though I have no data outside of my own experience. But fastpass on all the omnimover attractions is a train wreck. Never in my 40ish years going to Disney did I ever wait, even at the absolute peak times, more than 20/30 minutes for something like pirates. Now we have have peak times hitting 45/50 minutes. I know I suffer from rose glasses to an extent but if I had to choose, I would pick no fastpass.

Mansion had 2-hour waits during holidays in the 70s (Pirates experienced its first 2-hour wait while I worked there and it was pandemonium. The entire covered queue and indoor queues were full and there wasn't an SOP for overflow so we ran the line down to Frontierland. They overnighted stansions and a wait time sign from Disneyland {oddly we didn't have one} but the pole was a different size than the hole so someone had to stand and hold it).

 

[Rosanne]

Think I've posted this before but we sold our DVC membership because of the lack of magic at WDW. If you were not a Disney traveler before the early 2000's you cannot grasp the difference in quality across the board from cleanliness to food to CMs. Basically, the experience has gone from 100% to maybe 70% and I'm being generous with the 70%.

Now, we stay offsite and with the money we save- thousands- we book VIP tours. No having to put up with having to book FP 60 days ahead of time bologna and no worries about being able to get onto the most popular rides. Of course, as I pointed out to one of our guides, before the changes to FP where we could no longer save them for the end of the day, we did as much with just fps and would have saved the $1000+ that we paid for the VIP tour.

Our last trip was April 2018. This is the first time in 2 decades that we have not taken at least 1 and usually multiple trips a year to WDW. I know they don't miss our money but if, as I gather here, others are feeling the same way, corporate will begin to notice. WDW sadly does not have the magic it did.

How much is the VIP tour? I know a family with 2 little girls that would love to experience MK. They havent gone because of the long lines. They may consider a VIP tour. Can you imagine how much money the parks would lose if people were to boycott them for just one day?

 

[bayoubelle]

Mansion had 2-hour waits during holidays in the 70s (Pirates experienced its first 2-hour wait while I worked there and it was pandemonium. The entire covered queue and indoor queues were full and there wasn't an SOP for overflow so we ran the line down to Frontierland. They overnighted stansions and a wait time sign from Disneyland {oddly we didn't have one} but the pole was a different size than the hole so someone had to stand and hold it).

Dad and Mom brought us to Disney World in 1974. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea had a 90 minute wait. That was Dad's first and last trip, lol.