Magic Kingdom evening Extra Magic Hours attraction line-up to change next week

[tomman710]

Agreed that we do not have an official "explanation" (of course how can we take any "explanation" from them as official anyway considering it is generated by a PR spin) but the evidence was do have is not encouraging. I hope it is a temporary thing for maintenance issues but with the recent cut backs to EMH this just screams as more cost-cutting strategies. Again if this is to subsidize the production of new attractions I would be OK with that (although the idea of WDW just barely scraping by to the point where to do something they have to take away from something is ridiculous).

However, my main point is that no matter what the reasons are this decision combined with the cuts to EMH is incredibly short sighted because they are essentially devaluing their hotels.

Sure people like the transportation and gift delivery services but come on the real draw of staying on property is Disney theming AND maybe even more importantly EMH ... if you deemphasize EMH or make them less special by a) making them shorter and b) cutting back attractions people care about ... then what reason will people have to stay on property?

So the money may even out ... the money they may "save" from cutting back EMH and attractions they could "lose" in guests deciding to stay off property.

 

[bgraham34]

I just don't understand TDO at all. They are ruining every aspect of the Magic at Disney World.

 

[devoy1701]

Agreed that we do not have an official "explanation" (of course how can we take any "explanation" from them as official anyway considering it is generated by a PR spin) but the evidence was do have is not encouraging. I hope it is a temporary thing for maintenance issues but with the recent cut backs to EMH this just screams as more cost-cutting strategies. Again if this is to subsidize the production of new attractions I would be OK with that (although the idea of WDW just barely scraping by to the point where to do something they have to take away from something is ridiculous).

However, my main point is that no matter what the reasons are this decision combined with the cuts to EMH is incredibly short sighted because they are essentially devaluing their hotels.

Sure people like the transportation and gift delivery services but come on the real draw of staying on property is Disney theming AND maybe even more importantly EMH ... if you deemphasize EMH or make them less special by a) making them shorter and b) cutting back attractions people care about ... then what reason will people have to stay on property?

So the money may even out ... the money they may "save" from cutting back EMH and attractions they could "lose" in guests deciding to stay off property.

I've been looking for an excuse to stay at the Gaylord or a Bonnet Creek property for awhile now. Of course I'm not currently visiting WDW (19 months and counting), but when we do go back, being able to get the same accomodations (or better) at Bonnet Creek from 30%-50% less than a Disney Deluxe resort is sounding great now.

 

[mickey2008.1]

Hey, just maybe TDO is cutting stuff back to get that extra time to actually fix things and improve the parks that everyone complains about. If you don't have down time, then you don't have fix time. I will take a wait and see approach on this, give them 6 months to prove me wrong. We are ones who stay at the deluxe resorts on the monorail loop for the perks, but if the perks are the same as every other resort, my money will be spent elsewhere, and not just for views of MK.

Since the monorail hours have been reduced, has anybody noticed any changes to them? Are they running without incident more often? Are they cleaner? I only ask because I am not there and have not seen too many reports of them on here.

 

[captainkidd]

I just don't understand TDO at all. They are ruining every aspect of the Magic at Disney World.

Honestly, at this point, I don't know what in the world they are doing. From a psychology point of view, their recent behavior is actually in a warped way, rather fascinating. Trying to figure out what is going through their heads would send Sherlock Holmes into a nuthouse.

 

[t3techcom18]

Yikes....talk about people who are screaming ME ME ME and don't look at the bigger picture...

I don't know what's going on with Splash but I know a few people there so I should be getting an answer soon.

Think about it though - if they decided to take it down this quickly, there has to be a VERY good reason for it. Cost cutbacks can't or wouldn't come that fast; they would happen in groups and would start in, say January with the EMH change.

The monorail cutback from EMH WAS for maintenance. I even know the pilot who suggested the idea. Have you heard of more issues with the monorails? Have you seen them breakdown as often as before? No? What's been the thing that's been changed since then? Oh yeahhh the hours!

I've given much hate towards TDO in regards to upkeep and maintenance quality, something that is truly lacking in WDW, particularly at the MK. So now that things are being cutback, now that things are starting to change on property, little by little...yalls complain again.

A poster said that a few more hours of third shift maintenance wont help - try telling that to them. Instead of having to pick and choose items, they could spend more time fixing instead of disabling an effect for the day cause they couldn't get it done in time.

You guys want more upkeep? You guys want more quality? Then deal with it. If TDO gave attractions the proper TLC from day one, this wouldn't be happening. Are they still getting things wrong by not bringing down rides for complete rehabs? Yes; but are they FINALLY putting thought into it? Yes. I definitely believe both Tom Staggs and the bad PR from Splashs condition several months ago finally motivated people to do something - even if it might've come higher than TDO.

 

[alissafalco]

Agreed that we do not have an official "explanation" (of course how can we take any "explanation" from them as official anyway considering it is generated by a PR spin) but the evidence was do have is not encouraging. I hope it is a temporary thing for maintenance issues but with the recent cut backs to EMH this just screams as more cost-cutting strategies. Again if this is to subsidize the production of new attractions I would be OK with that (although the idea of WDW just barely scraping by to the point where to do something they have to take away from something is ridiculous).

However, my main point is that no matter what the reasons are this decision combined with the cuts to EMH is incredibly short sighted because they are essentially devaluing their hotels.

Sure people like the transportation and gift delivery services but come on the real draw of staying on property is Disney theming AND maybe even more importantly EMH ... if you deemphasize EMH or make them less special by a) making them shorter and b) cutting back attractions people care about ... then what reason will people have to stay on property?

So the money may even out ... the money they may "save" from cutting back EMH and attractions they could "lose" in guests deciding to stay off property.

Exactly! and most, if not all hotels that are off property close by offer free transportation to all four parks. So, unless you are staying at a monorail resort the Disney transportation is not a deciding factor or perk in my eyes.

 

[mgpan]

I'm no expert or insider, but doesn't Disneyland even take down their major attractions for 1-3 days at a time every so often for maintenance? Seems like their schedule includes one or two major attractions down for a short maintenance period every other week. Since we've heard most WDW visitors are there for more than 3 days, and locals could go another day, the next weekend, etc. why doesn't WDW do the same for maintenance? Even those once-in-a-lifetime visitors could still experience the attraction on another day of their visit. I've seen riverboat, Buzz, etc. at WDW close for a day or so, but the mountains and other major attractions seem to never go down for a short 1-3 days for routine maintenance and instead wait for months long downtimes. Giving yourself an extra 3 hours once or twice a week doesn't seem nearly as effective. So, is this really for maintenance or $$?

 

[t3techcom18]

I'm not doubting that you aren't, but I really don't think they tell CM's the whole truth anyway.

Oh if they dont tell us completely, we find out ourselves. There are some things us in Ops we don't know or are as much in the dark as the public is, depending on location and who you know and even then very tiny details (namely future/ongoing projects like New FL and the TT rehab).

Maintenance issues, however, affect the entire department/location involved - If cutbacks in monorails are for maintenance, all monorail pilots will be informed. If a ride closes down an hour earlier than the rest of the park, the CMs at that ride will be notified by management as to why or they'll talk to the resident maintenance people and get the official explanation. Chances are that the front line CMs will know whats going going on cause they would have experience with the issue as its probably a constant and urgent one if it needs immediate attention.

As for news from up high, TDO or otherwise, its rare - but when it does happen, its usually something big that everyone hears.

Communication is key in Ops - one arm has to know what the other is doing if it directly affects them. If they don't know, curiosity does the job for them.

 

[disneyeater]

Do you think they were saying"

"Well, they will hate us for pulling Splash no matter what we replace it with, so let's just give them the cheapest attraction to run we have."

 

[The Legend]

While this certainly is a bad trade, I've heard it's more for maitenance purposes and not cost saving as Splash can barely make it through a regular operating day let alone EMH without breaking down

Part of me wonders if this change occurring the same week the country bears go down are interconnected

 

[captainkidd]

Yikes....talk about people who are screaming ME ME ME and don't look at the bigger picture...

I don't know what's going on with Splash but I know a few people there so I should be getting an answer soon.

Think about it though - if they decided to take it down this quickly, there has to be a VERY good reason for it. Cost cutbacks can't or wouldn't come that fast; they would happen in groups and would start in, say January with the EMH change.

The monorail cutback from EMH WAS for maintenance. I even know the pilot who suggested the idea. Have you heard of more issues with the monorails? Have you seen them breakdown as often as before? No? What's been the thing that's been changed since then? Oh yeahhh the hours!

I've given much hate towards TDO in regards to upkeep and maintenance quality, something that is truly lacking in WDW, particularly at the MK. So now that things are being cutback, now that things are starting to change on property, little by little...yalls complain again.

A poster said that a few more hours of third shift maintenance wont help - try telling that to them. Instead of having to pick and choose items, they could spend more time fixing instead of disabling an effect for the day cause they couldn't get it done in time.

You guys want more upkeep? You guys want more quality? Then deal with it. If TDO gave attractions the proper TLC from day one, this wouldn't be happening. Are they still getting things wrong by not bringing down rides for complete rehabs? Yes; but are they FINALLY putting thought into it? Yes. I definitely believe both Tom Staggs and the bad PR from Splashs condition several months ago finally motivated people to do something - even if it might've come higher than TDO.

Come on....We're not some wet behind the ear typical tourists on this site. Most of us have been around long enough to know what we're talking about. If TDO wanted to fix Splash Mountain the way it should be fixed, do what they always do and close it in January. We all understand the logic behind that. Closing it for a couple hours per night makes no sense.

And what's the excuse for cutting EMH back to 2 hours?

 

[jugglingfanatic]

GOOD NEWS! I just heard SM will be back open for EMH in time for the Holidays 2012.
It has to be true, I just talked to a bus driver.

Ok, sorry to get anyone's hopes up. I also am truly sorry for using the bus driver line, I thought I would never ever use that on this forum.

This change doesn't affect my trip (finally, after hearing we were missing Fantasyland by a few weeks, MM&Y more than likely not showing, and Test Track more than likely still down), however, Evening EMH at MK have been completely eliminated from my trip. October 22nd was to have EMH from 9pm-12am (look at the calendar on this site) but on the official Disney park hours page, and other calendar sites, the EMH have been removed. Been that way for a few months now. They did expand other normal park hours by 1 hour on the nights when MNSSHP was not happening to 10pm.

I'm putting my vote behind the maintenance people, it does make sense that a quick announcement like this would be more for maintenance and not for cost cutbacks.

 

[devoy1701]

Oh if they dont tell us completely, we find out ourselves. There are some things us in Ops we don't know or are as much in the dark as the public is, depending on location and who you know and even then very tiny details (namely future/ongoing projects like New FL and the TT rehab).

Maintenance issues, however, affect the entire department/location involved - If cutbacks in monorails are for maintenance, all monorail pilots will be informed. If a ride closes down an hour earlier than the rest of the park, the CMs at that ride will be notified by management as to why or they'll talk to the resident maintenance people and get the official explanation. Chances are that the front line CMs will know whats going going on cause they would have experience with the issue as its probably a constant and urgent one if it needs immediate attention.

As for news from up high, TDO or otherwise, its rare - but when it does happen, its usually something big that everyone hears.

Communication is key in Ops - one arm has to know what the other is doing if it directly affects them. If they don't know, curiosity does the job for them.

It happens like this:

TDO: We need to cut operation costs some more, anyone have any suggestions?
Park Ops: Well we could take an e-ticket out of rotation for a bit, maybe cut it from EMH?
TDO: Great Idea...those e-tickets cost way to much to much to operate 18 hours a day...and take small army to operate! Which one should we cut?
Park Ops: Well we could take Splash down...let's just tell everyone it's for "maintenance reasons"
TDO: Another GREAT IDEA! Let's begin in September...and I'm going to keep you in mind for a promotion!

That was hyperbole of course, but it happens in all companies...the motives behind why executive management makes a decision and the reasons explain to those in the lower ranks don't always have to line up. It just needs to be believable (and sometimes that isn't even true). Just because CMs are said it's for maintenance, doesn't mean it is. I don't mean to say that this ISN'T for maintenance reasons as I said in my previous post. But I'm not going to accept that it is simply because an Ops CM says it is.

 

[GLaDOS]

The monorail cutback from EMH WAS for maintenance. I even know the pilot who suggested the idea. Have you heard of more issues with the monorails? Have you seen them breakdown as often as before? No? What's been the thing that's been changed since then? Oh yeahhh the hours!

Uhhhh...yea. I do. I read about monorail breakdowns weekly on twitter.

 

[captainkidd]

Uhhhh...yea. I do. I read about monorail breakdowns weekly on twitter.

And here. And every other Disney message board.

 

[muteki]

I don't ride Splash that often as we tend to go in the winter months and it is usually under refurb/not desirable to do from a weather standpoint. If I ride it at all it will more likely be during the day because as previously stated, I don't want to be soaked in the evening. I'd rather spend my EMH time riding Big Thunder over and over or Pirates, if I am on that side of the park.

Hopefully this will result in better maintenance, whether or not that was the real reason for the change (which you can see either way). Even before this change, the ride has refurbs much more often than other rides in the park but that hasn't necessarily translated to better show in this case. Meh.

 

[Tip Top Club]

Yikes....talk about people who are screaming ME ME ME and don't look at the bigger picture...

I don't know what's going on with Splash but I know a few people there so I should be getting an answer soon.

Think about it though - if they decided to take it down this quickly, there has to be a VERY good reason for it. Cost cutbacks can't or wouldn't come that fast; they would happen in groups and would start in, say January with the EMH change.

The monorail cutback from EMH WAS for maintenance. I even know the pilot who suggested the idea. Have you heard of more issues with the monorails? Have you seen them breakdown as often as before? No? What's been the thing that's been changed since then? Oh yeahhh the hours!

I've given much hate towards TDO in regards to upkeep and maintenance quality, something that is truly lacking in WDW, particularly at the MK. So now that things are being cutback, now that things are starting to change on property, little by little...yalls complain again.

A poster said that a few more hours of third shift maintenance wont help - try telling that to them. Instead of having to pick and choose items, they could spend more time fixing instead of disabling an effect for the day cause they couldn't get it done in time.

You guys want more upkeep? You guys want more quality? Then deal with it. If TDO gave attractions the proper TLC from day one, this wouldn't be happening. Are they still getting things wrong by not bringing down rides for complete rehabs? Yes; but are they FINALLY putting thought into it? Yes. I definitely believe both Tom Staggs and the bad PR from Splashs condition several months ago finally motivated people to do something - even if it might've come higher than TDO.

I'm sorry, sir, all due respect, but you are just plain wrong. The problem here isn't ops, no one is blaming them, the problem here is budgets. Sure you can cut monorail hours for maintenance, a fact I KNOW is true, but when you have a bare bones maintenance staff there's only so much they can do! And I'm not blaming them either, like I said, the problem here is budgets.

So even if the primary reason for the Splash Downtime here is for Maintenance (Which it's not) Not a lot is going to get done with a bare bones crew for three extra hours in the night.

 

[t3techcom18]

It happens like this:

TDO: We need to cut operation costs some more, anyone have any suggestions?
Park Ops: Well we could take an e-ticket out of rotation for a bit, maybe cut it from EMH?
TDO: Great Idea...those e-tickets cost way to much to much to operate 18 hours a day...and take small army to operate! Which one should we cut?
Park Ops: Well we could take Splash down...let's just tell everyone it's for "maintenance reasons"
TDO: Another GREAT IDEA! Let's begin in September...and I'm going to keep you in mind for a promotion!

That was hyperbole of course, but it happens in all companies...the motives behind why executive management makes a decision and the reasons explain to those in the lower ranks don't always have to line up. It just needs to be believable (and sometimes that isn't even true). Just because CMs are said it's for maintenance, doesn't mean it is. I don't mean to say that this ISN'T for maintenance reasons as I said in my previous post. But I'm not going to accept that it is simply because an Ops CM says it is.

We know THAT type of procedure because some of the front line management does decisions like that. Again, will we know? Yes.

Us in Ops are big time fans and care about the parks. I'd argue we're the biggest because we are actually involved in the decision making - NOT second hand news from, say, a CM who wants to say something or a bus driver who doesnt know because they ARENT in that department or dont know anyone in that department. I've been on these forums since 02. I'm not stupid so don't treat me as such.

As for the cutting of 2 hours - go to any Ops CM and ask how they feel about it and 97% will give you the same answer: It makes sense.

In the first two hours, EMH is common business for everyone: waits go down to 45 minutes at max. However, that last hour makes almost every single ride a walk on. Having a fully staffed attraction as well as the costs involved don't meet the demand quota. Yes its a loss for those families or like late nights or deserted parks - but its killing the business side of things.

Not to mention - many Ops CMs work 40-75, even 100 hours a week during extreme peak season. All of us CMs celebrated the news. It gives us a chance to rest more as well have more time with OUR families. Think about others before thinking of yourselves.

 

[tomman710]

We know THAT type of procedure because some of the front line management does decisions like that. Again, will we know? Yes.

Us in Ops are big time fans and care about the parks. I'd argue we're the biggest because we are actually involved in the decision making - NOT second hand news from, say, a CM who wants to say something or a bus driver who doesnt know because they ARENT in that department or dont know anyone in that department. I've been on these forums since 02. I'm not stupid so don't treat me as such.

As for the cutting of 2 hours - go to any Ops CM and ask how they feel about it and 97% will give you the same answer: It makes sense.

In the first two hours, EMH is common business for everyone: waits go down to 45 minutes at max. However, that last hour makes almost every single ride a walk on. Having a fully staffed attraction as well as the costs involved don't meet the demand quota. Yes its a loss for those families or like late nights or deserted parks - but its killing the business side of things.

Not to mention - many Ops CMs work 40-75, even 100 hours a week during extreme peak season. All of us CMs celebrated the news. It gives us a chance to rest more as well have more time with OUR families. Think about others before thinking of yourselves.

So basically you are saying Disney overworks their ops people and instead of hiring two people to work 100 hours they have one person do it? That's again ... shortsighted and I feel bad for you guys.