Look how crowded Future World used to be

[Dragonrider1227]

I think it's unlikely that this was a holiday. My family went to WDW both summers 89 and 90 and we stood in lines far longer than what is shown in this video. WoM had full switchbacks underneath it's ramp, SSE would have full switchbacks outside, and as I remember it, Horizons would typically have a very long line stretching down towards Communicore East. I don't ever remember the Imagination pavilion being as packed as in the video, but in 1989, Michael Jackson was arguably at the height of his popularity (his Bad album was released in 1988 and I believe he was deemed "The King of Pop" in 89) and JII would often have full switchbacks inside, that spilled over into extensive outside switchbacks and Captain EO (like UoE) would often have people lining up outside (because the interior waiting area was filled). I don't ever remember the the Living Seas having a line that would have extended outside the building.

Listen, it's been debated ad nauseum, but the people that promote the theory that WoM, Horizons and JII were removed because nobody was riding them (or because there was a sinkhole) are simply wrong. Disney removed them because they thought they could get more sponsorship money by building something new. And in a post-Frank Wells WDC, decisions were (and are) made for short-term monetary reasons and not based on long-term strategic thinking. This video shows Future World when it was a cohesive, well-thought-out land that fit together and made you feel like you were in the most optimistic place on the planet. It was very popular and, despite 20 years of Disney corporate revisionist history, kids liked being there and learning things.

And if you think these lines are long, you should have seen what it was like in the Summer of 1983.

I don't know. there's footage of outside WoM in 1994 and the lines aren't exactly long

There's a bit of a crowd here but nothing like in that '89 video

This one is just sad
That said, I give the others the benefit of the doubt. I don't know about them. All I know is I went to EPCOT center as a kid and all that interested me there was Imagination.

 

[SyracuseDisneyFan]

Wow.

 

[VoiceGuy07]

Proof that the older attractions did much better

Oooh! I think I saw myself walking over by The Living Seas!

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I don't know. there's footage of outside WoM in 1994 and the lines aren't exactly long

There's a bit of a crowd here but nothing like in that '89 video

This one is just sad
That said, I give the others the benefit of the doubt. I don't know about them. All I know is I went to EPCOT center as a kid and all that interested me there was Imagination.

I've seen the first video posted here before and I'll say now what I said then ... you have no way of knowing when the video was taken. The line for WoM at 5 minutes before closing and 5 minutes after opening are going to look completely empty compared to 11am. The line for WoM on a Tuesday in November is going to look completely different than a Saturday in July. My guess is that both videos are taken almost immediately after the park opened, but it's pure speculation - there's no way of knowing.

The issue, of course, is what the WoM/Horizons/JII attendance looked like in comparison to other Future World attractions at the same time the video was taken (which is demonstrated easily in the monorail video) ... and what the Future World attendance was in comparison to other areas of other WDW parks. Disney Corporate would have you believe WoM/Horizons/JII were empty; the monorail video demonstrates otherwise 7 to 10 years before their closing.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

That's true. Very true.
Maybe it's because I for one was actually that typical bored little kid back in Epcot Center's hayday (Imagination of course being the only exception) but I'm a little more skeptical when I hear this belief that Disney is trying to manipulate us into thinking these rides lost popularity. Sure, they were popular in the 80s as that video shows because they were still new and exciting but I still find it possible that by the 90s many people started losing interest.
It's also possible sponsors just didn't want to pay for such big expensive rides anymore. I'm pretty sure that's what doomed Imagination.

 

[Mad Stitch]

The boy who looks at the camera at the very end is wearing a Disney-MGM Studios hat, so there is another clue that the video is at earliest 1989.

 

[dxwwf3]

I would definitely say this was just a regular, Summer operating day. I can definitely remember being very young and waiting outside a while for Captain EO in 89/90. World of Motion normally used that outdoor queue during that time as well.

I remember normally walking into the Imagination building and using almost all of the switchbacks, so waiting outside isn't that out of the ordinary there.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I've seen the first video posted here before and I'll say now what I said then ... you have no way of knowing when the video was taken. The line for WoM at 5 minutes before closing and 5 minutes after opening are going to look completely empty compared to 11am. The line for WoM on a Tuesday in November is going to look completely different than a Saturday in July. My guess is that both videos are taken almost immediately after the park opened, but it's pure speculation - there's no way of knowing.

I'll also add that the weather conditions make a big difference, from personal experience (i've visited EPCOT many times during the early-mid 90's). Several visits within the same few days (or even the exact same day at different times) can be drastically different from an crowd standpoint just based on whether it's dry or raining (even with ponchos, very few people like getting caught outside for long during one of Florida's notorious deluges). I know from personal experiences that downpours of rain can sometimes almost empty the parks of people. One morning I visited in the early-mid 90's EPCOT was quite busy (including all the Future World rides), but then a downpour occurred later that same day and a ton of people just left the park completely for quite a while (even after the rain it can take a while for people to return). People staying on property would sometimes just board the monorail, boats or whatever and actually go back to their hotels for a while until things dried out at the parks (we did this ourselves, good chance for a rest and we'd return later that night).

It says a lot about the popularity of those rides with the massive crowds. In 1989 until they began replacing the rides, EPCOT had serious capacity. All the major Future World E Tickets were huge people eaters. The park itself has a ton of space in general, so to see that many people crowding around should tell people a lot.

 

[marni1971]

I don't know. there's footage of outside WoM in 1994 and the lines aren't exactly long

Yet I queued and queued in 1993 and shot the inside full in 1990. It's all relative. You could video Soarin' at 9am tomorrow and then at 2pm.

 

[fbb]

Any person who has decision-making authority at Epcot should be given this video tomorrow morning as a going-away present.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Rides were longer and there was more to see inside each building. Now "doing" Future world has a whole different meaning - it's more like a race to complete every ride now rather than a place to experience every attaction.

And you can thank Fastpass for that! We can no longer stand in line and absorb the theme. Because the standby line moves so slowly, we must go on a dead run to get FP's and then run someplace else to see something, run back. It has taken the fun out of it for me. The rides could always have been thought of as a bit on the lame side, but it was just a shared adventure with everyone in the park, not a dash to the finish line. I hated it when it first came out and nothing has happened to make me like it any better since.

 

[Goofyernmost]

but don't you think the other things were busier because there wasn't test track, mission space, and sorin'?

No, it was because the things that they replaced (except Soarin) were people eating machines. Continuous ride, no stops and those replacements were queued attractions with wait times built in. Now some of the newer attractions are longer because there are really a bit fewer things to do then back then, hence fewer people going to see them. Imagination had a slight delay because they sent them out in, I think, six cars per set, but that was usually just enough time to load the next six and you were on your way. No measurable delay.

 

[mikeymouse]

Most of Future World is crap compared to what it used to be. JII and Imageworks ... ruined. Soarin ... eh. The Seas ... improved somewhat. SSE ... ending completely destroyed. Energy ... cute, sorta, poorly maintained. WOL ... potential half day adventure turned abandoned hole. M:S ... cool but doesn't hold a flame to Horizons. TT ... neat but not even comparable to WOM. Communicores were 10x better than Innoventions. Inno was good when it first debuted, but now its garbage. Hey, like they say on the WDW Modern Marvels ... Disney is held at a higher standard because Disney has held themselves at a higher standard.

 

[jlsHouston]

Wasn't there a sinkhole or something where those old places were ?

 

[jamesgf]

Great to see Future World in its prime, so sad what it has become

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Wasn't there a sinkhole or something where those old places were ?

When Horizons was shut down, the "behind the scenes" explanation that all the cast members believed as conventional wisdom was that there was a sinkhole on the land and the attraction needed to be closed because of structural integrity (in other words, given time, the whole thing could collapse). This was patently false. There is a sinkhole on the east side of EPCOT's Future World, but it is far, far more east of Horizons' footprint and actually outside the park by quite a distance. I'm convinced upper-middle management started a whisper campaign with their subordinates in order to get them to leak to the public that "Sorry, we had to close Horizons because of safety reasons; it was completely out of our control and we didn't want to do it," but people are free to believe whatever they want to believe. To me, it stretches credibility that something this factually false would be allowed to become conventional wisdom for years (without Disney management correcting the falsehood) unless they wanted it to be believed as fact.

Regardless, there is a sinkhole near Future World, but it in no way caused (or threatened to cause) the closures of any EPCOT attractions. All three attractions were closed because Disney wanted more sponsorship money (in other words, they wanted other companies to pay for the operation of their park) and they believed (true or false) they could maximize sponsorship dollars by removing the original attractions (Horizons, JII, WoM) and replacing them.

 

[Goofyernmost]

When Horizons was shut down, the "behind the scenes" explanation that all the cast members believed as conventional wisdom was that there was a sinkhole on the land and the attraction needed to be closed because of structural integrity (in other words, given time, the whole thing could collapse). This was patently false. There is a sinkhole on the east side of EPCOT's Future World, but it is far, far more east of Horizons' footprint and actually outside the park by quite a distance. I'm convinced upper-middle management started a whisper campaign with their subordinates in order to get them to leak to the public that "Sorry, we had to close Horizons because of safety reasons; it was completely out of our control and we didn't want to do it," but people are free to believe whatever they want to believe. To me, it stretches credibility that something this factually false would be allowed to become conventional wisdom for years (without Disney management correcting the falsehood) unless they wanted it to be believed as fact.

Regardless, there is a sinkhole near Future World, but it in no way caused (or threatened to cause) the closures of any EPCOT attractions. All three attractions were closed because Disney wanted more sponsorship money (in other words, they wanted other companies to pay for the operation of their park) and they believed (true or false) they could maximize sponsorship dollars by removing the original attractions (Horizons, JII, WoM) and replacing them.

Any further proof that there was no sinkhole that involved Horizons, all one has to do is look where Mission: Space is sitting right now.

Part of what you are saying about those three attractions is true. General Electric did end sponsorship of Horizons and HP came in and offered or were sold on sponsoring MS, but they obviously were not interested in Horizons. JII was changed because of an original sign on agreement with Kodak. It stated that after a certain number of years of operation, I don't remember how long, they wanted the show changed. That was just the agreement. Apparently Disney didn't know what they had or Kodak for certain didn't realize it, so out went JII. WoM was somewhat the same General Motors wanted to change the show. Enter Test Track. In all fairness, and denial by those of us that loved Omnimover rides, the era had passed. People were looking for something more exciting. They were replaced by marginally exciting rides (not JII x3, unless you consider the overwhelming urge to scream when you see it, exciting). At the time there were four (five if you count The Seas, I don't) omni rides. SSE, Horizons, JII and WoM. All basically the same thing.

These are basically accepted as fact, so there is not an argument to be had about the importance of sponsorship in the decision making process especially in Epcot.

 

[Seabasealpha1]

Most of Future World is crap compared to what it used to be. JII and Imageworks ... ruined. Soarin ... eh. The Seas ... improved somewhat. SSE ... ending completely destroyed. Energy ... cute, sorta, poorly maintained. WOL ... potential half day adventure turned abandoned hole. M:S ... cool but doesn't hold a flame to Horizons. TT ... neat but not even comparable to WOM. Communicores were 10x better than Innoventions. Inno was good when it first debuted, but now its garbage. Hey, like they say on the WDW Modern Marvels ... Disney is held at a higher standard because Disney has held themselves at a higher standard.

No offense, but the only way the seas is any better is if your attention span is shot...and if you have no desire to learn anything...even then it's annoyingly a friggin' re-hash of a movie with very little to actually do with the world's second largest aquarium or the fact that they blow so much money to maintain it only to make a bad attempt at a cutesy ride and plugging their franchises into your brain...that ride sucks now...

Again...don't want to offend...the re-do was a mindless, souless, bit of idiocracy...

 

[Gabe1]

I don't think the old rides exactly as they were would attract those crowds today. Epcot FW is about innovation and it's hard to keep everything feeling new and innovative. Technology moves so fast. You have to put in a lot of time and money to keep that up.

I so disagree. There was a lot of history that went into Motion and Horizons. Imagination had tons of stuff to do upstairs and downstairs. The theater when kept current was a draw vs the stale ole MJ. The Seas had tons of learning experiences and far more critters in the tanks. Surrounded by so many interactive learning experiences. WoL was a heck of a lot better than it is today's purposes and SSE the ride is pretty equal but the ATT experience afterwords was a lot of fun. Today's Mission Space I can't ride, did, ill the rest of day.

TT is a win but doesn't make up for the rest that died. The land had so many different experiences and shows. While the land ride is still there and I love along with Soarin, it doesn't have the diversity it once had. 1989 the date of the YouTube was my DS 2nd trip to Disney as a 2 year old, we easily spent 2-3 days in future world. If I had a 2 year old now in Future World maybe I could spend a few hours there. It is rare to see anyone hanging around the Imagination pavilion, look at the crowds in this video. It is very telling.

Wonder why the queues for Soarin and TT are so long everyday, they ripped out all this good stuff.

 

[Gabe1]

Ah... when Epcot was EPCOT. Sigh. This was the first year we went, I only went to The Magic Kingdom, I was only 6 so my parents decided EPCOT would be lost on me (as all I was interested in was Mickey) - I remember my Dad took an evening trip there, on his own and he came back and told me about Figment!

So sad. My DS was 2 during this video. I treasure those times and the fond memories of yesteryear. I still have the Figment backpack I bought my DS his first trip when he was one. I can't tell you how many times we rode Figgy cause he loved it.