little mermaids wait times now like dca's.

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
Disney hyped both TLM and 7DMT as being e-tickets and they simply are not. The bar was raised pretty high by Disney's marketing campaign before the ride was even opened. So, it's only natural to expect too much. Disney used to consistently deliver on the fans having high expectations.

The ride fits perfectly in the land. But the execution is poor. What sense does it make to build a ride that is inferior so it doesn't overshadow existing rides?

We haven't had anything close to Splash or TOT in recent times. Is that expecting too much or holding Disney accountable for not being nearly as good as they used to be? It's the latter for me.
If anything I think people here simply expect too much. It is a popular opinion here that WDW "used to" deliver. With rides like ToT, Splash, they "used to" give us great e tickets. However now it's not the case. From what I hear, WDW hasn't had a solid an immersive E ticket since Everest, and even that has its issues. If WDW hasn't truly delivered in years, then why expect it too all of a sudden? Bottom line is you can't please everyone. No matter how good or bad something is, someone will always find fault in it. It's just a running epidemic here it seems to find fault in virtually everything.
 

MonorailLover

Well-Known Member
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I know I'll get yelled at by someone, but as a consumer and a shareholder, I am happy with TLM and 7DMT, but probably because I didn't hope for anything specific, and i kept my hopes down. Even though some may say disney has lost Walt's dream of having a theme park for kids and adults, I think that you need to give MK a break, and see his dream of attractions which adults will also be immersed in, to the other parks. Frankly, you can barely even drink in. I think that MK is more understandable and immersive to kids than adults, and they've done a great job at doing that.
 
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RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I know I'll get yelled at by someone, but as a consumer and a shareholder, I am happy with TLM and 7DMT, but probably because I didn't hope for anything specific, and i kept my hopes down. Even though some may say disney has lost Walt's dream of having a theme park for kids and adults, I think that you need to give MK a break, and see his dream of attractions which adults will also be immersed in, to the other parks. Frankly, you can barely even drink in MK, it's a park for kids, and they've done a great job at doing that.
The problem with Seven Dwarfs Mine Train is that it's a D-ticket attraction that doesn't have D-ticket capacity.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I know that I'm just making it worse, but let me rephrase that:

I think that MK is more understandable and immersive to kids than adults
I wouldn't even agree fully with that rephrasing. Perhaps it's heading towards that point since the past couple of decades, but that definitely was not the case in MK's original form prior to the changes performed in the mid 90's during Eisner's reign.

Prior to 1994, i'd easily say that adults actually appreciated and got more out of MK than children. Removed rides such as 20k Leagues and Dreamflight were aimed at a somewhat older audience (they appealed to children as well, but they didn't specifically target kids as their primary demographic). But even today, i'd say most of the lands (at least what is left of them) appeal at least as much to adults as children, if not moreso. This includes Main Street, Frontierland, Liberty Square and even Adventureland. Fantasyland is the one land that is skewed heavily towards a younger crowd, and even that one wasn't always so singular in its target audience when you consider the original ride of 20k Leagues Under the Sea (a distinctly more mature attraction that older audiences in particular appreciated).

The only land that has consistently been one that children would appreciate more than adults is Toontown (aka Birthdayland aka Starland etc), which has now basically been fused with Fantasyland. The other lands in their original forms and their rides however were generally skewed towards the adult demographic, but designed so that kids would also enjoy them as well. I'd definitely say that adults would be more immersed and appreciative of Main Street for instance than children.
 
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Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't even agree fully with that rephrasing. Perhaps it's heading towards that point since the past couple of decades, but that definitely was not the case in MK's original form prior to the changes performed in the mid 90's during Eisner's reign.

Prior to 1994, i'd easily say that adults actually appreciated and got more out of MK than children. Removed rides such as 20k Leagues and Dreamflight were aimed at a somewhat older audience (they appealed to children as well, but they didn't specifically target kids as their primary demographic). But even today, i'd say most of the lands (at least what is left of them) appeal at least as much to adults as children, if not moreso. This includes Main Street, Frontierland, Liberty Square and even Adventureland. Fantasyland is the one land that is skewed heavily towards a younger crowd, and even that one wasn't always so singular in its target audience when you consider the original ride of 20k Leagues Under the Sea (a distinctly more mature attraction that older audiences in particular appreciated).
I hadn't really thought about it but you're right. It used to be attractions that were more skewed towards adults. Tomorrowland was definitely like that. Tomorrowland was about space, and the wonders and inventions of tomorrow. Now it's Stitch, Monsters Inc., and Buzz Light Year.

Also, when you think about something similar, cartoons, the ones that people like, and remember are the ones from decades back that were skewed towards adults (Looney Tunes, old Disney Cartoons)
 

MonorailLover

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't even agree fully with that rephrasing. Perhaps it's heading towards that point since the past couple of decades, but that definitely was not the case in MK's original form prior to the changes performed in the mid 90's during Eisner's reign.

Prior to 1994, i'd easily say that adults actually appreciated and got more out of MK than children. Removed rides such as 20k Leagues and Dreamflight were aimed at a somewhat older audience (they appealed to children as well, but they didn't specifically target kids as their primary demographic). But even today, i'd say most of the lands (at least what is left of them) appeal at least as much to adults as children, if not moreso. This includes Main Street, Frontierland, Liberty Square and even Adventureland. Fantasyland is the one land that is skewed heavily towards a younger crowd, and even that one wasn't always so singular in its target audience when you consider the original ride of 20k Leagues Under the Sea (a distinctly more mature attraction that older audiences in particular appreciated).

The only land that has consistently been one that children would appreciate more than adults is Toontown (aka Birthdayland aka Starland etc), which has now basically been fused with Fantasyland. The other lands in their original forms and their rides however were generally skewed towards the adult demographic, but designed so that kids would also enjoy them as well. I'd definitely say that adults would be more immersed and appreciative of Main Street for instance than children.
Merlin, I agree with what you are saying, it is becoming what I have said. I completely agree with the fact that it didn't used to be, and I'm not trying to make myself sound like that person who thinks it's lost and you all sigh for my soul, I'm just considering the current facts that are being commented on here.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I know I'll get yelled at by someone, but as a consumer and a shareholder, I am happy with TLM and 7DMT, but probably because I didn't hope for anything specific, and i kept my hopes down.
But isn't that part of the problem? Is that how we should be looking at Disney now? "Well I had really expected just a meet and greet and an x-wing spinner but since they added the quick service cantina and a 3d show, Star Wars land is pretty good." I expect more from Disney, especially when something takes that long and they hyped it like they did the new fantasyland. Part of my disappointment in the mine train is that the ride screams "look how awesome I could have been!" I personally don't want to go into every new Disney project expecting complete mediocrity just so I can say "hey it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be!"
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
But isn't that part of the problem? Is that how we should be looking at Disney now? "Well I had really expected just a meet and greet and an x-wing spinner but since they added the quick service cantina and a 3d show, Star Wars land is pretty good." I expect more from Disney, especially when something takes that long and they hyped it like they did the new fantasyland. Part of my disappointment in the mine train is that the ride screams "look how awesome I could have been!" I personally don't want to go into every new Disney project expecting complete mediocrity just so I can say "hey it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be!"
I sincerely hope this is an ambitious project. The original rumor was a Cave based simulator. We don't necessarily know how good that can be, but the screen based trend should be somewhat worrisome. So much of what made the original Star Wars trilogy great was the puppetry and physical sets/props. Amongst the many criticisms of the new trilogy was the reliance on CGI. It sounds like from a movie standpoint that Episode 7 should gravitate more towards the former, while obviously having significant CGI components. I would hope that a significant attraction in a Star Wars Land would also rely on physical sets. The "best of" simulator already exists.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
But isn't that part of the problem? Is that how we should be looking at Disney now? "Well I had really expected just a meet and greet and an x-wing spinner but since they added the quick service cantina and a 3d show, Star Wars land is pretty good." I expect more from Disney, especially when something takes that long and they hyped it like they did the new fantasyland. Part of my disappointment in the mine train is that the ride screams "look how awesome I could have been!" I personally don't want to go into every new Disney project expecting complete mediocrity just so I can say "hey it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be!"
I really think that's the difference between how Disney was, and how they are now:
- Was: Wouldn't this be cool... (Disney and the original Imagineers)
- Now: Let's put the kids in the movie; Omnimover and anamatronic! Done! Don't go over budget! Meet the deadline!!! Bean counters and managers - it's the same combination that brought us such greats as RocketRods, Stitch, and Nemo!

I think there has also been a change to Universal's thinking:
- Was: Let's try to be like Disney (they were a poor Disney doing it this way)
- Now: Wouldn't it be cool...

I think that's why Universal is getting really great Harry Potter stuff and Disney is getting TLM. I expect Universal to really wow us over the next 10 years. In the same time period I expect WDW to have more re-treads (Frozen/Maelstrom) and more "generic Disney" rides (TLM).

I could be wrong. There is promise in Avatarland (which I'm not a fan of but they could make something really cool there) and the changes coming to DHS.

I really hope WDW gets back on track.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope this is an ambitious project. The original rumor was a Cave based simulator. We don't necessarily know how good that can be, but the screen based trend should be somewhat worrisome.
As do I. The way new fantasyland ended up has me concerned though. I don't want to get off a star wars ride and think how much better it could have been. Star wars deserves so much more than NFL and in no way should we be tempering our expectations just so we feel like its not that bad.
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
They should have went with the Tony Baxter version (there is a CG video ride through available on the Little Mermaid DVD and probably youtube if your curious). It was more thrilling and adventerous and would have been way more exciting for guests than yet another omnimover attraction. Lines would have been much longer and they probably would have actually sold more merchandise as well.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't even agree fully with that rephrasing. Perhaps it's heading towards that point since the past couple of decades, but that definitely was not the case in MK's original form prior to the changes performed in the mid 90's during Eisner's reign.

Prior to 1994, i'd easily say that adults actually appreciated and got more out of MK than children. Removed rides such as 20k Leagues and Dreamflight were aimed at a somewhat older audience (they appealed to children as well, but they didn't specifically target kids as their primary demographic). But even today, i'd say most of the lands (at least what is left of them) appeal at least as much to adults as children, if not moreso. This includes Main Street, Frontierland, Liberty Square and even Adventureland. Fantasyland is the one land that is skewed heavily towards a younger crowd, and even that one wasn't always so singular in its target audience when you consider the original ride of 20k Leagues Under the Sea (a distinctly more mature attraction that older audiences in particular appreciated).

The only land that has consistently been one that children would appreciate more than adults is Toontown (aka Birthdayland aka Starland etc), which has now basically been fused with Fantasyland. The other lands in their original forms and their rides however were generally skewed towards the adult demographic, but designed so that kids would also enjoy them as well. I'd definitely say that adults would be more immersed and appreciative of Main Street for instance than children.
What's sad is that there's plenty of great E-ticket ideas that would have more adult appeal than the latest additions

Adventureland: JttCotE clone, Indiana Jones Adventure, Fire Mountain

Frontierland: Western River Expedition, Geyser Mountain, Life on the Frontier (abandoned Hong Kong ride concept about living in the West)

Liberty Square: Sleepy Hollow

Fantasyland: Bald Mountain, ToT esque ride themed to Jack and the Beanstalk, something related to Greek/Roman mythology, a fun house with evil clowns, Monstro water coaster

Tomorrowland: Alien Encounter returns, TRON coaster (80-85 mph), Time Travel E ticket with no tie ins, tour of a Martian colong

TDO simply wants to cater to toddlers and their moms far too much. They've forgotten about their more adventurous guests
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
Oh good lord, I don't want clowns in a Disney park... The only clown I'm not afraid of is Ronald McDonald. I do like the Monstro water coaster idea, though.
That's the whole point... it would provide something scary/thrilling for Fantasyland :) especially since Greek mythology, the Grimm fairy-tales, Bald Mountain, Nightmare Before Christmas and the Disney villains aren't exactly light stuff.

I would love if Fantasyland were divided into cohesive sections where it wasn't just toddler/preschool stuff.
  1. Castle Courtyard
  2. Neverland/Wonderland
  3. Dark Kingdom
  4. Enchanted Forest
  5. Storybook Circus
 

JakeSpadaro

Well-Known Member
They should have went with the Tony Baxter version (there is a CG video ride through available on the Little Mermaid DVD and probably youtube if your curious). It was more thrilling and adventerous and would have been way more exciting for guests than yet another omnimover attraction. Lines would have been much longer and they probably would have actually sold more merchandise as well.
Wow!!! I just watched it! I wish they would've done something like that
 

Anders Limpar

Well-Known Member
I think the failure of AE and all the complaints they received put the kibosh on anything in the Magic Kingdom that was "scarier" than the silly spooks in the Haunted Mansion. It's possible we might see something a bit more scary at DHS someday but not anytime soon.
 
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