Little Mermaid Ride Adjustments

[etwtec]

The MK's queue is great as you start the immersion in Ariel's world immediately, the DCA queue . . . its supposed to be in the style of old pier side amusement park 20th Century Aquarium. I can see why these type of buildings for aquariums went out of style as it looks as fancy as a Barnes and Noble and I didn't get the aquarium reference without reading about it and looking at old pictures. I think they made the building so tall in part so that it blocks out the Grand Californian . . .

Queues notwithstanding the show building part of the MK's Little Mermaid looks to be 40% bigger, go to Google earth and look at the show building sizes ( but keep the scale the same, you can see it in the bottom left of the satellite photo, I used the 100 ft/20 m scale.)

Just looking at show buildings, the MK's LM show building is about 30-40% bigger ALSO, the MK's LM's queue and is housed in a building next to it, if the ride load area is also in this rock-work part of the complex, then MK's LM is about 40 to 50% bigger than DCA's, space which I figure will be put to good use.

There are a good number of scenes in DCA's LM that feel claustrophobic, maybe because the show building is made to look impressive. Such as the "Kiss the Girl" scene, which in concept art was bigger as the omnimovers took a more circuitous route, and the Ursula scene in which the Ursula AA feels like it is too close to the ride vehicles.

While TDO gets a lot of comments about not responding to guests wishes, as the AP community grows there, and as they are competing with Potterland, I think that somebody at TDO figured that they needed a plussed LM for the Fantasyland Expansion as that will be the first new ride to open and first impressions are everything.

Well if the show building is bigger than DCAs then that most likely means the ride will NOT be identical to DCAs, which everyone has been saying it will be an exact copy. This is fantastic news if true! Fingers crossed for the Ursula battle!
Would be sweet to have a scene with waves, lightning storm, even if it was on a big video screen maybe something like in buzz? but with a wind effect and maybe even mist! so you feel like you are right in the scene! That would be soo sweet!

 

[HMF]

.
HMF does have a point (which may be lost because of who said it). To this day there really hasn't been much (if any) evidence that TDO takes any feedback from WDW fans seriously enough to warrant a change.

This is exactly what I mean. I strongly feel that the reason things are going so well at Disneyland is because of the vocal Fanbase and it's criticisms and that's why DCA is being re-done and why exciting things are coming to Disneyland soon.
The problem with a lot of the WDW Fanbase is when we get a half-baked product (Spaceship Earth Descents, Space Mountain Refurbs) a few very vocal people speak out (Myself and quite a few others) but the problem is too many are quick to defend bad show or bad management decisions that TDO is more likely to use that to their advantage when defending poor Show Quality Standards.

 

[Californian Elitist]

This is exactly what I mean. I strongly feel that the reason things are going so well at Disneyland is because of the vocal Fanbase and it's criticisms and that's why DCA is being re-done and why exciting things are coming to Disneyland soon.
The problem with a lot of the WDW Fanbase is when we get a half-baked product (Spaceship Earth Descents, Space Mountain Refurbs) a few very vocal people speak out (Myself and quite a few others) but the problem is too many are quick to defend bad show or bad management decisions that TDO is more likely to use that to their advantage when defending poor Show Quality Standards.

You know, I was thinking about that. I can definitely speak for Disneyland guests and say that we are very vocal. But I'm sure I'd be able to say the same thing about WDW guests. I think the problem may be the local vs tourist aspect again. I think it's probably easier for TDA to listen to us (Disneyland guests) and give us what we want because we're all locals, or just live in Caifornia period, and some of us are in the parks 5 days a week. Going to Disneyland for us is like going to the movies. We'll go after work or after school even, just to go eat, or get on a couple of rides, or see Fantasmic! or whatever. Some of us even know each other by names, and we're aware of the regulars at the park, the ones that are there at least 4 or 5 days out of the week. We are like a huge family. We make up the majority of the guests. Not to mention we are very, VERY loyal. Once again, I'm sure the exact the same thing can be said about WDW fans and guests. TDA's attitude toward their guests just seems starkly different from TDO's, which is sad in my opinion.

I've never been to WDW but I'm pretty sure what I hear about the guests is true; the majority are tourists. Now it seems to me that because of this, WDW's fans are shut down when it comes to things you guys want, because of the tourist thing. That's just ridiculous in my opinion. That is not fair at all.

It seems that it's easier for TDA to actually WANT to give us what we want because they can actually see that loyalty and dedication we have for the Disneyland Resort. DLR is much smaller so guest interaction is easy, making it also easy for Disneyland guests to get what we want. I don't really know... I'm just throwing my thoughts out there. By the way, you're right about another thing. Disneyland guests don't stand for half baked products. We take A LOT of pride in our parks, and that's why they basically started all over with DCA, along with other attraction refurbishments and spruce ups of the entire resort. Now if TDA can recreate and re-theme an entire park, I'm absolutuely positive TDO can fix a yeti.

 

[LongtimeReader]

Well said, raven. I'd also like to add that I'm sure a portion of the decision to revamp DCA was due to its underperformance financially, which is esentially an effect of the local market speaking with their wallets. There isn't much of that problem in Orlando. It's a tough situation at TDO. It will take a management team that actually cares about the product to make a change. 10 years ago the situation was reversed. DLR was falling apart due to a management that was, IMO, worse than today's TDO (though with similar mindsets). Orlando needs its Matt Ouimet. And it could stand for Lasseter to realize that there is more to Disney Parks than just DLR...its totally fine to have a special fondness for the original (dont we all?) but he could really spark some real changes at Orlando and Paris too. He's got a lot of clout with the other bigwigs right now...

 

[Californian Elitist]

Well said, raven. I'd also like to add that I'm sure a portion of the decision to revamp DCA was due to its underperformance financially, which is esentially an effect of the local market speaking with their wallets. There isn't much of that problem in Orlando. It's a tough situation at TDO. It will take a management team that actually cares about the product to make a change. 10 years ago the situation was reversed. DLR was falling apart due to a management that was, IMO, worse than today's TDO (though with similar mindsets). Orlando needs its Matt Ouimet. And it could stand for Lasseter to realize that there is more to Disney Parks than just DLR...its totally fine to have a special fondness for the original (dont we all?) but he could really spark some real changes at Orlando and Paris too. He's got a lot of clout with the other bigwigs right now...

I 100% agree. This problem with TDO isn't going to last forever. Change will sure come.

 

[FRC Team 180]

The MK's queue is great as you start the immersion in Ariel's world immediately, the DCA queue . . . its supposed to be in the style of old pier side amusement park 20th Century Aquarium. I can see why these type of buildings for aquariums went out of style as it looks as fancy as a Barnes and Noble and I didn't get the aquarium reference without reading about it and looking at old pictures. I think they made the building so tall in part so that it blocks out the Grand Californian . . .

Queues notwithstanding the show building part of the MK's Little Mermaid looks to be 40% bigger, go to Google earth and look at the show building sizes ( but keep the scale the same, you can see it in the bottom left of the satellite photo, I used the 100 ft/20 m scale.)

Just looking at show buildings, the MK's LM show building is about 30-40% bigger ALSO, the MK's LM's queue and is housed in a building next to it, if the ride load area is also in this rock-work part of the complex, then MK's LM is about 40 to 50% bigger than DCA's, space which I figure will be put to good use./Quote]

If this is true, you have just made my day!

 

[sponono88]

The MK's queue is great as you start the immersion in Ariel's world immediately, the DCA queue . . . its supposed to be in the style of old pier side amusement park 20th Century Aquarium. I can see why these type of buildings for aquariums went out of style as it looks as fancy as a Barnes and Noble and I didn't get the aquarium reference without reading about it and looking at old pictures. I think they made the building so tall in part so that it blocks out the Grand Californian . . .

Queues notwithstanding the show building part of the MK's Little Mermaid looks to be 40% bigger, go to Google earth and look at the show building sizes ( but keep the scale the same, you can see it in the bottom left of the satellite photo, I used the 100 ft/20 m scale.)

Just looking at show buildings, the MK's LM show building is about 30-40% bigger ALSO, the MK's LM's queue and is housed in a building next to it, if the ride load area is also in this rock-work part of the complex, then MK's LM is about 40 to 50% bigger than DCA's, space which I figure will be put to good use.

There are a good number of scenes in DCA's LM that feel claustrophobic, maybe because the show building is made to look impressive. Such as the "Kiss the Girl" scene, which in concept art was bigger as the omnimovers took a more circuitous route, and the Ursula scene in which the Ursula AA feels like it is too close to the ride vehicles.

While TDO gets a lot of comments about not responding to guests wishes, as the AP community grows there, and as they are competing with Potterland, I think that somebody at TDO figured that they needed a plussed LM for the Fantasyland Expansion as that will be the first new ride to open and first impressions are everything.

Measuring the length in Google maps shows that the buildings (minus the queue area) are pretty much identical in size. Imagineers have also said in interviews that the ride buildings will be mirror copies of each other.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

My three issues with LM in DCA were:

1. Lighting levels in the Under the Sea room

2. The fish spitting "formed" plastic water in the Kiss the Girl room. This one REALLY bothers me... It looks horribly cheap and tacky. If they couldn't figure out how to have the fish spit real water effectively (because of noise levels, or wear on the AA's, or whatever), then they should have eliminated the effect all together and then had their boat at least "float" in real water. The lack of real water in that scene... The ONE scene that could have used real water in an attraction about a movie that in large part takes PLACE in water... Is a serious mis-step.

3. The finale scene, like everyone's said. The jarring move from Kiss the Girl to the last scene with a tiny Ursula buried in the corner. Re-used animatronics inexplicably dancing (????), all the characters waving to you... And I don't understand why King Triton has "real" hair when everyone else's hair in the whole attraction is formed plastic. ?? This is another scene that could have easily used real water around King Triton, as well... Instead it's very plastic and fake looking water.

It seems to me these would have all been easy changes they could put in place for WDW, but I'm certain it will be an exact copy.

We still like LM overall as an attraction, though... I'd call it a 7 out of 10... Fix the few things above, and we'd give it a 10 every time.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Measuring the length in Google maps shows that the buildings (minus the queue area) are pretty much identical in size. Imagineers have also said in interviews that the ride buildings will be mirror copies of each other.

They are not the same size, they will LOOK the same size if you don't make sure that the scale on Google Maps is the same in each window, seen in feet and meters NOT the level of zoom which doesn't match the scale. The MK LM show building (minus the queue which is clearly visible as rock work) is about 35% bigger in my estimation. If you look at DCA's LM, the show building is funny shaped, the MK's show building is a larger rectangle. I made the mistake of using the same "Zoom Level" and mistakenly thought they were the same size, then noticed the people and trucks in MK were smaller!, I matched the scale and voila . . . MK's LM show building is bigger. There are some smaller satellite buildings around DCA's LM, but these are not showbuildings. MK's LM has a much larger show building that could be used primarily for the ride, which could mean adding an extra scene or expanding the ones there.

Of course, not all of MK's LM may be used for the ride . . . but does anybody really think that they are going to put in the paper-cut-out Ursula? DCA has problems with space and money for LM . . . why does WDW need to shoot itself in the foot? MK isn't getting Carsland . . . they are gambling everything on LM and the Seven Dwarfs ride, minus the dueling Dumbo's, in terms of public reaction to this much publicized project. The ride track layout looks different in WDW . . . it is not a carbon copy.

There aren't any 100% identical rides between DLR and MK, Pirates are noticeably different, even HM has differences in some scenes despite being built around the same time as the one in Disneyland. Star Tours is pretty similar, though the queues are different. Different parks have different needs.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

My three issues with LM in DCA were:

1. Lighting levels in the Under the Sea room

2. The fish spitting "formed" plastic water in the Kiss the Girl room. This one REALLY bothers me... It looks horribly cheap and tacky. If they couldn't figure out how to have the fish spit real water effectively (because of noise levels, or wear on the AA's, or whatever), then they should have eliminated the effect all together and then had their boat at least "float" in real water. The lack of real water in that scene... The ONE scene that could have used real water in an attraction about a movie that in large part takes PLACE in water... Is a serious mis-step.

3. The finale scene, like everyone's said. The jarring move from Kiss the Girl to the last scene with a tiny Ursula buried in the corner. Re-used animatronics inexplicably dancing (????), all the characters waving to you... And I don't understand why King Triton has "real" hair when everyone else's hair in the whole attraction is formed plastic. ?? This is another scene that could have easily used real water around King Triton, as well... Instead it's very plastic and fake looking water.

It seems to me these would have all been easy changes they could put in place for WDW, but I'm certain it will be an exact copy.

We still like LM overall as an attraction, though... I'd call it a 7 out of 10... Fix the few things above, and we'd give it a 10 every time.

That's a really good idea, using water in the Kiss the Girl scene, would have made a scene that looks fake and plasticky all that better. It wouldn't be that hard as the boat structure could separate the audioanimatronics from the water, but it would have costed some $, plus it would have made the inside of the ride a little more humid. Though if they did this, then perhaps the clam shell could have descend through some water held back by plexiglass or something. Kind of ironic that a ride based on a film that involves mermaids has no water in it.

What about King Triton's eyebrows?? In the finale scene they are brown and look like fur tails from left over Davy Crockett cookskin hats pasted on, in the film the are more human like and grey in color. As the imagineers lifted all the details from the film, why the change to big bushy brown eyebrows? Seriously, you can barely see King Triton's eyes.

Also, I think that the use of real hair is kinda creepy on Triton, given that Ariel and Eric's hair are pretty pure colors, like in the film. He looks more like the beast next to them, or a half naked swinger from the 70's . . . I know that it is "in the film", like Dole Whip Ariel, but it kinda was done differently in the film and it didn't look so realistic . . . having a wedding and a half naked guy on steroids swimming in the ocean waving. The emotional connection between Triton and Ariel is not illustrated as Ariel has a blank sort of look on her face and is staring at the guests, Triton is just sort of there . . . the scene seemd disjointed.

 

[danlb_2000]

They are not the same size, they will LOOK the same size if you don't make sure that the scale on Google Maps is the same in each window, seen in feet and meters NOT the level of zoom which doesn't match the scale. The MK LM show building (minus the queue which is clearly visible as rock work) is about 35% bigger in my estimation. If you look at DCA's LM, the show building is funny shaped, the MK's show building is a larger rectangle. I made the mistake of using the same "Zoom Level" and mistakenly thought they were the same size, then noticed the people and trucks in MK were smaller!, I matched the scale and voila . . . MK's LM show building is bigger. There are some smaller satellite buildings around DCA's LM, but these are not showbuildings. MK's LM has a much larger show building that could be used primarily for the ride, which could mean adding an extra scene or expanding the ones there.

Of course, not all of MK's LM may be used for the ride . . . but does anybody really think that they are going to put in the paper cut out Ursula? DCA has problems with space and money for LM . . . why does WDW need to shoot itself in the foot? MK isn't getting Carsland . . . they are gambling everything on LM and the Seven Dwarfs ride, minus the dueling Dumbo's, in terms of public reaction to this much publicized project. The ride track layout looks different in WDW . . . it is not a carbon copy.

There aren't any 100% identical rides between DLR and MK, Pirates are noticeably different, even HM has differences in some scenes despite being built around the same time as the one in Disneyland. Star Tours is pretty similar, though the queues are different. Different parks have different needs.

I always thought they building were identical also, but if you compare them side by side you can see that even though they are close the DCA one has the back corner cut off that the WDW one doesn't. So WDW does appear to have more space inside the show building.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

They are not the same size, they will LOOK the same size if you don't make sure that the scale on Google Maps is the same in each window, seen in feet and meters NOT the level of zoom which doesn't match the scale. The MK LM show building (minus the queue which is clearly visible as rock work) is about 35% bigger in my estimation. If you look at DCA's LM, the show building is funny shaped, the MK's show building is a larger rectangle. I made the mistake of using the same "Zoom Level" and mistakenly thought they were the same size, then noticed the people and trucks in MK were smaller!, I matched the scale and voila . . . MK's LM show building is bigger. There are some smaller satellite buildings around DCA's LM, but these are not showbuildings. MK's LM has a much larger show building that could be used primarily for the ride, which could mean adding an extra scene or expanding the ones there.

Of course, not all of MK's LM may be used for the ride . . . but does anybody really think that they are going to put in the paper cut out Ursula? DCA has problems with space and money for LM . . . why does WDW need to shoot itself in the foot? MK isn't getting Carsland . . . they are gambling everything on LM and the Seven Dwarfs ride, minus the dueling Dumbo's, in terms of public reaction to this much publicized project. The ride track layout looks different in WDW . . . it is not a carbon copy.

There aren't any 100% identical rides between DLR and MK, Pirates are noticeably different, even HM has differences in some scenes despite being built around the same time as the one in Disneyland. Star Tours is pretty similar, though the queues are different. Different parks have different needs.

I hate to say it, but I believe you'll be highly disappointed. The rides are going to be the same.

 

[RAXIP]

I hate to say it, but I believe you'll be highly disappointed. The rides are going to be the same.

Yep.

Magic Kingdom:

DCA:

 

[sponono88]

I always thought they building were identical also, but if you compare them side by side you can see that even though they are close the DCA one has the back corner cut off that the WDW one doesn't. So WDW does appear to have more space inside the show building.

I remember hearing that the extra space behind the building was going to be a break room for cast members. As noted by RAXIP above, the ride diagrams show that the ride layout and size will be the same.

 

[danlb_2000]

I remember hearing that the extra space behind the building was going to be a break room for cast members. As noted by RAXIP above, the ride diagrams show that the ride layout and size will be the same.

You are right. I just went back and looked at the early aerial views and you can clearly see the foundation is the same shape as the one in DCA with the back corner cutoff even though the roof is squared off in that corner. Here is a good picture:

http://www.wdwmagic.com/Attractions/Fantasyland/Gallery/19Jul2010-Aerial-view-of-construction-site-.htm

So I have to agree that show buildings are the same size.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I am right?

I always thought they building were identical also, but if you compare them side by side you can see that even though they are close the DCA one has the back corner cut off that the WDW one doesn't. So WDW does appear to have more space inside the show building.

IMHO, these pictures prove my argument, and then some:

The pictures appear to be be about 100 foot/inch (20 meter to 2 cm) scale each.

DCA's LM Dimensions: About 200 feet by 75 (on average, 2 parts of the building is sliced off). I am not counting the blue rectangle which is the queue, nor am I counting the circle object which is the Palace of Fine Arts re-imagined. Note that DCA’s show building is widest only for a small sliver in the middle about 100 feet, and it tapers. Roughly I would say that the area is 200 x 75 feet, or about 15,000 square feet.

Calculating the MK’s LM is easier, is about a rectangle, about 110 feet by 200 to 210 feet. I am assuming that there isn’t much taper in the upper right corner as it is hidden behind rock work. So, the area of the MK’s LM is about 110 x 205 or 22,550 square feet. Note that I do not count the rockwork outside queue stuff.

22,550 / 15,000 = 1.50

So, based on my estimates, the MK LM’s show building is about 50 percent bigger, above my 30-40% guesstimate.

I believe this proves my point. If someone has a program to find the area inside a 2-D figure, when can settle this more accurately.

*Edit, regarding the "cut-off" on the MK version . . . I am guestimating the building may lose 12 x 50 feet at the exit (based on satellite imaging), if so, then this would be a loss of only 600 square feet, making the calculation: 21,950 / 15,000 = 1.46, or the MK's LM being about 46% bigger.

Thanks for the screen captures, regardless

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I remember hearing that the extra space behind the building was going to be a break room for cast members. As noted by RAXIP above, the ride diagrams show that the ride layout and size will be the same.

I keep thinking that the cut-off LM ride layout we are seeing is recycled from DCA's.

It is so true that the extra area could be used for a break area, but it could also expand the actual ride by much more than 46% because some area has to be used for load/unload . . . meaning that any 'extra' space could be devote entirely to a whole new scene.

Do the imagineers have leeway with constructing the ride track once the building is up? Maybe . . . how hard would it be to extend the track an extra 100 to 200 feet, or even easier, to extend certain scenes, i.e. utilizing more space. Why do the castmembers need a break room in such precious real estate, don't the Utilidoors leads to a plethora of break rooms?

The track length of DCA's LM is about 630 feet. Let's say they decide to add 200 feet of omnimover track to LM in WDW, I am guessing that would require a square room about 200 by 30 feet, given space for show elements, that is an extra 6,000 square feet, which WDW's show building seems to have. Remember that DCA's 630 feet is part load and unload, which uses up about 120 feet, so you only have about 500 feet of ride. Boosting the ride length from 500 to 700 feet would be a big difference. If the ride weaves in and out more, then you could easily be looking at another 300 feet of track, boosting the ride length from 500 to 800 . . . a 60% increase in ride length, perhaps with the addition of another large scene, or two small scenes.

Whatever happens . . . I hope that TDO realizes the mixed response to LM, and spruces their ride up some by getting permits to extend the omnimover track and add stuff.

There is also an Ariel Meet and Greet, will that be using up space in the show building?? Hard to say, especially as Ariel might need a break room nearby. Maybe'll they'll put that stuff under the rock-work, of which there is a lot in front, even so, how much space would Ariel need? A 300 square foot break room and area outside for pictures?

Also, while DCA's LM has two big AC units on top, MK's has two on the show building and one on a side building which is part of the queue. Not sure what to make of this, except that MK's looks like it will use more AC based on my admitedly flimsy assumption as I don't know much about AC

 

[Tim Lohr]

IMHO, these pictures prove my argument, and then some:

The pictures appear to be be about 100 foot/inch (20 meter to 2 cm) scale each.

DCA's LM Dimensions: About 200 feet by 75 (on average, 2 parts of the building is sliced off). I am not counting the blue rectangle which is the queue, nor am I counting the circle object which is the Palace of Fine Arts re-imagined. Note that DCA’s show building is widest only for a small sliver in the middle about 100 feet, and it tapers. Roughly I would say that the area is 200 x 75 feet, or about 15,000 square feet.

Calculating the MK’s LM is easier, is about a rectangle, about 110 feet by 200 to 210 feet. I am assuming that there isn’t much taper in the upper right corner as it is hidden behind rock work. So, the area of the MK’s LM is about 110 x 205 or 22,550 square feet. Note that I do not count the rockwork outside queue stuff.

22,550 / 15,000 = 1.50

So, based on my estimates, the MK LM’s show building is about 50 percent bigger, above my 30-40% guesstimate.

I believe this proves my point. If someone has a program to find the area inside a 2-D figure, when can settle this more accurately.

*Edit, regarding the "cut-off" on the MK version . . . I am guestimating the building may lose 12 x 50 feet at the exit (based on satellite imaging), if so, then this would be a loss of only 600 square feet, making the calculation: 21,950 / 15,000 = 1.46, or the MK's LM being about 46% bigger.

Thanks for the screen captures, regardless

ok I think I see what you're saying it's the same blue print/lay out just 1.46% bigger, or for example that a 10 foot area in DCA is 15 feet in MK it's the a "super sized" version in MK

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

ok I think I see what you're saying it's the same blue print/lay out just 1.46% bigger, or for example that a 10 foot area in DCA is 15 feet in MK it's the a "super sized" version in MK

Here's what I believe to be a fact, more or less:

1. The MK's LM's show building is about 46% bigger in terms of square footage.

We could debate from here what this increases signifies, if anything, this increase of 46% could mean 'bigger' ride sets, i.e. a bigger "Under the Sea scene", a bigger Ursula scene that doesn't feel claustrophobic (like how it felt in DCA before they changed the lighting . . . nonetheless, Ursula gets right in your face, so much that she looks 'fake').

OR, the extra space could be used to add a major new scene, or even a couple smaller scenes on the scale of LM in DCA, using the same scale.

I think what WDW will get will be a mixture of the two, the show scenes will be slightly bigger, and a new scene will be used to replace the paper cut-out Ursula self-destructing in the ocean in DCA, and the last scene will be better somehow. So, overall more spacious ride, plus an added scene (Eric battles Ursula??), and a better ending scene which utilizes a couple hundred more square feet of show space.

Of course, the extra space could go to a castmember rest area . . . and the imagineers could plop down the same exact ride, but why? There is extra space, might as well use it . . .

I can't wait to see the ride videos of LM in Orlando . . . hopefully it will be what I wish DCA's LM was . . .

 

[RAXIP]

I remember hearing that the extra space behind the building was going to be a break room for cast members. As noted by RAXIP above, the ride diagrams show that the ride layout and size will be the same.

Here's another. The buildings have the same overall dimensions, with a little extra room in the back corner of the MK's building.

The rides with have the same layout, at the same size.