Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[monothingie]

Yet another year of being told that it was going to be busier than ever only for it not to be.

Raise your hand Jeff and Josh, if you think there’s a problem.

 

[larryz]

A part of it is due to lower attendance.

As for LL usage. I know nobody likes to wait in long lines. No park has enough capacity to give everyone short waits. It's why I'm firmly for eliminating Multi pass and keeping only Premier pass. Also allowing those with Premier pass to ride attractions as many times as they want.

By doing that while standby will be longer, it also will consistently move. The other benefit is those who buy Premier pass will get their moneys worth.

I think a more fair scheme would involve "Reservation ONLY" days where every person going thru the gate is guaranteed to be able to board a ride within 5 minutes of entering the queue. This means, of course, they'd have to drastically reduce the allowable guest count to accommodate that standard. They've done it at night -- they know what that number is. They'd also have to drastically increase the admission cost for those days -- but it would probably even out to somewhere slightly north of what the rubes spend on parking, admission, and Premiere Lightning Lanes, plus tips and bribes.

To make it fair for the out-of-towners and lower upper middle-class families, they could designate one day a week as "non-reserved" days, allowing anyone and their brother (with tickets, of course) to enter and wait in lines as long as they'd like/can stand, with ZERO premium access programs in effect. Those tickets could be slightly less expensive (in the range of High Season + Plebian Lightning Lane costs) since the volume would make up for the lower admission cost.

Someone with Roller Coaster Tycoon - Disney Deluxe Edition* up and running should model this and report back on the outcome...

* This is the version that allows you to segment the guest peeps into those who just pay for park admission, park admission plus limited skip-the-line access, and park admission plus unlimited skip the line access. It prioritizes the PA, PA+ and PA++ so the PA++ guests get immediate access, PA+ gets access after the PA++ guests are accommodated, and then PA guests get to ride after all the PA+ and PA++ guests are accommodated, but with PA line waits limited to a maximum of one hour. At the one hour wait point, PA can override a PA+ guest, or as soon as possible after PA++.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because without the "required" lines, the whole "skip the line" money machine doesn't work. You can't monetize a demand that doesn't exist.

So I get it when people point out that Di$ney has zero monetary incentive to reduce stand-by line wait times. The longer they are, the more "Really Ultimate, Best Possible, No Kidding, Fastest Fast Pass We've Ever Sold" upcharges they sell the rubes, at least up to their arbitrarily determined "sell out" point (which means they realize they can't push the rubes' patience too far, or they'll zip up I-4 to Universal).

Ouch baby…very ouch

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think a more fair scheme would involve "Reservation ONLY" days where every person going thru the gate is guaranteed to be able to board a ride within 5 minutes of entering the queue. This means, of course, they'd have to drastically reduce the allowable guest count to accommodate that standard. They've done it at night -- they know what that number is. They'd also have to drastically increase the admission cost for those days -- but it would probably even out to somewhere slightly north of what the rubes spend on parking, admission, and Premiere Lightning Lanes, plus tips and bribes.

To make it fair for the out-of-towners and lower upper middle-class families, they could designate one day a week as "non-reserved" days, allowing anyone and their brother (with tickets, of course) to enter and wait in lines as long as they'd like/can stand, with ZERO premium access programs in effect. Those tickets could be slightly less expensive (in the range of High Season + Plebian Lightning Lane costs) since the volume would make up for the lower admission cost.

Someone with Roller Coaster Tycoon - Disney Deluxe Edition* up and running should model this and report back on the outcome...

* This is the version that allows you to segment the guest peeps into those who just pay for park admission, park admission plus limited skip-the-line access, and park admission plus unlimited skip the line access. It prioritizes the PA, PA+ and PA++ so the PA++ guests get immediate access, PA+ gets access after the PA++ guests are accommodated, and then PA guests get to ride after all the PA+ and PA++ guests are accommodated, but with PA line waits limited to a maximum of one hour. At the one hour wait point, PA can override a PA+ guest, or as soon as possible after PA++.

They can’t do that…because that would expose how badly they’ve mismanaged capacity and break the illusion to sell tickets.

I might have mentioned this 5(000) or so times…but the seat count is roughly 2001 levels…

since that…all travel has grown about 20%…

Disney grew about 30% at one point…now is down below 20% and falling.

Just like their stock…lagging the market.

In the same Period what had universal done? Now is UOR anywhere close to wdw in quality? No…it’s hard to make that case on most levels…but what has happened there that hasn’t in LBV? The perception of “advancement” that Burbank has bungled…deliberately or otherwise

 

[larryz]

For I can't imagine buying park tickets and only riding the 3 attractions I got LLs for and leaving.

That's Annual Passholder* behavior, right there...

*the "d" and the "r" are optional...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

FOMO “Fools Often Miss Out”

…winner

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

For I can't imagine buying park tickets and only riding the 3 attractions I got LLs for and leaving.

That was the actual behavior of the much loved FP+ era

Still defended by a few holdouts here

That's Annual Passholder* behavior, right there...

*the "d" and the "r" are optional...

Indeed. I can’t say I reject it out right…I’ve been and can’t say pounding lines is exceptionally a go to…calling it a day kinda works too

…but it also is a terrible value and gives Disney more return than they are entitled to for the prices.

 

[larryz]

…but it also is a terrible value and gives Disney more return than they are entitled to for the prices.

Not if you lived close enough to do it 3 or 4 times a week...

 

[Touchdown]

Not if you lived close enough to do it 3 or 4 times a week...

If I lived close I would rope drop and leave as soon as the lines got too long or show up around 5pm and close a park. No need for LL.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If I lived close I would rope drop and leave as soon as the lines got too long or show up around 5pm and close a park. No need for LL.

This is a good strategy for anyone visiting at any time. Do rope drop, leave when the lines get too long, go back to your resort to cool off and rest then go back to in the evening and close the park.

 

[Chi84]

I guess everyone slept in this morning.
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Three hours after you posted this wait times are up dramatically. MK of course has the most capacity, but there were 4 attractions over 90 minutes at HS and FOP and Navi in AK were at 95 and 80.

I can definitely see people wanting to skip those lines.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not if you lived close enough to do it 3 or 4 times a week...

Florida “cancels out” that benefit

But I’m not denying the appeal of light days and take it or leave it…I love it…but that mentality fed the beast that leads us to the mostly hated cycle of upsells we got today

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If I lived close I would rope drop and leave as soon as the lines got too long or show up around 5pm and close a park. No need for LL.

You and Eva need to get together, meet in the middle, and iron out the deets of how 2025 hasn’t matched old plans and patterns 1:1

 

[monothingie]

They can’t do that…because that would expose how badly they’ve mismanaged capacity and break the illusion to sell tickets.

I might have mentioned this 5(000) or so times…but the seat count is roughly 2001 levels…

since that…all travel has grown about 20%…

Disney grew about 30% at one point…now is down below 20% and falling.

Just like their stock…lagging the market.

In the same Period what had universal done? Now is UOR anywhere close to wdw in quality? No…it’s hard to make that case on most levels…but what has happened there that hasn’t in LBV? The perception of “advancement” that Burbank has bungled…deliberately or otherwise

Just make sure everyone in your traveling party buys a PP at $400+ per person plus tax. Bob needs that new yacht!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just make sure everyone in your traveling party buys a PP at $400+ per person plus tax. Bob needs that new yacht!

After a while…the cheek lifts get really expensive…don’t have Anything left to work with

 

[Splash4eva]

This is a good strategy for anyone visiting at any time. Do rope drop, leave when the lines get too long, go back to your resort to cool off and rest then go back to in the evening and close the park.

When you are traveling with kids rope dropping is tough especially when you are doing some of these character breakfast as well. Not impossible depending in the park but tough. HS was the best for this. Book H&V for 830. Can get in for 8 and usually bang out TSMM & MMRR before you sit and eat or choose any 2 attractions really

 

[Chi84]

When you are traveling with kids rope dropping is tough especially when you are doing some of these character breakfast as well. Not impossible depending in the park but tough. HS was the best for this. Book H&V for 830. Can get in for 8 and usually bang out TSMM & MMRR before you sit and eat or choose any 2 attractions really

You must have missed the part where this is a "good strategy for anyone visiting at any time."

I don't know why some posters can't accept the fact that what works for some may not work for others but I guess it's difficult to think outside of one's own experience.

 

[nickys]

They have in the past. Even back 5-6 years ago. With limited availability in terms of return times and Premier pass selling out, there is lots who wait in those lines.

For I can't imagine buying park tickets and only riding the 3 attractions I got LLs for and leaving.

Just because some people did in the past doesn’t mean everyone wants to now…..

But I’m not quite sure how many people only do 3 rides with LL and then leave either. There are plenty of things to do in every park that aren’t rides or don’t have LLs or are a walk-on. (Less now in MK without TSI or the Riverboat of course).

There is a happy medium for many people.

 

[nickys]

Bolded is the big difference now. 45-75 minute waits are not long at all. Especially when compared to 2019 attendance levels.

I don’t compare my waits with previous waits when I’m in the park.
Anything over 30 minutes is long in my book. Doesn’t mean I won’t wait in a line but it would have to be a favourite or new (to me).

 

[Disstevefan1]

When you are traveling with kids rope dropping is tough especially when you are doing some of these character breakfast as well. Not impossible depending in the park but tough. HS was the best for this. Book H&V for 830. Can get in for 8 and usually bang out TSMM & MMRR before you sit and eat or choose any 2 attractions really

Totally agree with the challenge of rope drop. To be honest, our family mostly fails to make rope drop, spirit is willing but flesh is weak.

Another thing that comes to mind is the challenge of these family trips; like 10 or more, I can’t get more than a party of one to agree on anything, what a nightmare it must be at WDW with large parties.