Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[nickys]

I don’t think Disney has it out for international travelers but I do think they have a better understanding of the international commerce and consumer protection laws that influence these sales than we do.

We can immediately dismiss any claim that Disney is choosing to turn down money from these guests.

They don’t seem to mind us paying for dining.
And we were able to pay for Genie+ when it could be bought ahead of time.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Thanks for the correction Captain.

Sorry international guests! It is what it is

BTW, it is, what it is, for everyone, its sometimes some folks get screwed less than other folks

Yeah no just to be clear, this blocking out of international guests from pre-booking is *awful*.

Maybe one solution would be for them to offer a length-of-stay multipass that's bundled in a vacation package so it's not an individual transaction?

 

[Dranth]

Sure. But other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Yes and that feature is why it was terrible for a lot of people. Every re-ride you got was one less spot for someone's first ride. It lead to a massive difference in experiences.

Disney didn't bring that part back because it resulted in a worse experience for most users. They don't have the capacity to allow re-rides. They never did. With FP+ some people just got to take advantage of those that didn't know better.

 

[ToTBellHop]

They don’t seem to mind us paying for dining.
And we were able to pay for Genie+ when it could be bought ahead of time.

Right. So we can presume there is a reason(s) why they can't do so here.

 

[Saskdw]

The weird thing is, we, as international guests were able to make advance FP+ reservations, which means that between 2013-2021, the international Disney World websites were able to make the reservations.

So, unless the website designers have forgotten how to do this, then you would think that it is to do with paying in advance.

However, I've just checked, and I can pay for a Cinderella's Royal Table reservation in full now, which means that I am able to pay in advance from my international country.

So I have previously been able to book in advance, and I have the ability to pay in advance, so why not allow us to book LLMP/LLSP in advance?

Even if we were unable to do it on the app until we arrived, allow us to do it on the website!

It is absolutely baffling.

 

[nickys]

Regarding the geo-locking of Lightning Lane purchases, my guess is this is meant to avoid abuse of the system and to protect Disney from consumer protection laws outside the US related to purchases and complaints about not getting what was expected.

There are enterprising people who have already hacked the Genie+ APIs to go so far as to automatically book attractions based on a preference list, the next available time slot, your location, and your calendar without any interaction on the day of visit. They work by adding the app to your friends and family list which allows the app's servers to interact with your account on your behalf. The servers for these apps are located outside the United States and their actions violate Disney's Terms of Service but their location makes it far harder to shut them down just like scam call centers.

Thus, limiting access to make purchases and interact with the (now) Lightning Lane APIs to only those within the US allows Disney to restrict access to users who are or will be subject to US law.

I agree it's not great, but if it reduces some of the abuse of the system and (hopefully) wait times across the board, I think it will be beneficial.

Beneficial to you perhaps.

So it’s OK that they sell international guests an inferior product. Just as long as it benefits everyone else?

 

[Dranth]

Yeah no just to be clear, this blocking out of international guests from pre-booking is *awful*.

It is but there is a certain irony to it as many of the international guests were the ones wanting a FP+ system back because they can take advantage of the length of stay booking with their longer vacations.

 

[Saskdw]

Regarding the geo-locking of Lightning Lane purchases, my guess is this is meant to avoid abuse of the system and to protect Disney from consumer protection laws outside the US related to purchases and complaints about not getting what was expected.

There are enterprising people who have already hacked the Genie+ APIs to go so far as to automatically book attractions based on a preference list, the next available time slot, your location, and your calendar without any interaction on the day of visit. They work by adding the app to your friends and family list which allows the app's servers to interact with your account on your behalf. The servers for these apps are located outside the United States and their actions violate Disney's Terms of Service but their location makes it far harder to shut them down just like scam call centers.

Thus, limiting access to make purchases and interact with the (now) Lightning Lane APIs to only those within the US allows Disney to restrict access to users who are or will be subject to US law.

I agree it's not great, but if it reduces some of the abuse of the system and (hopefully) wait times across the board, I think it will be beneficial.

Beneficial to have no one outside the US book a WDW vacation ever again??

 

[JD80]

I doubt they leave a loop hole like that in place. If they do, why wouldn't everyone book 1 T1 and 2 small rides as early as possible and then immediately drop the two low wait rides for other T1s on park open?

Everyone can. When FP+ was around, why didn't everyone three early fastpasses so they could rebook and refresh more often? Many people don't game the system due to not knowing they can, not caring or just nor bothering.

 

[nickys]

Right. So we can presume there is a reason(s) why they can't do so here.

Like what?

There’s no reason that makes sense. Except that it might cost them a little more for a developer to turn off geo-fencing.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yeah no just to be clear, this blocking out of international guests from pre-booking is *awful*.

Maybe one solution would be for them to offer a length-of-stay multipass that's bundled in a vacation package so it's not an individual transaction?

We all know LL is better at some parks than others. A positive feature of the new system is the ability to only buy it on certain days once all plans have solidified. I don't think I'd buy it on an Epcot or DAK day (no need at the former, and for the latter, I'd rather book a LL single for FoP and then ride everything else in Standby).

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Framing this as some intentional and strategic decision by Disney and not some legal or IT related thing seems incorrect. I’ll be very surprised if there isn’t an official Disney solution to this with time.

 

[Dranth]

Everyone can. When FP+ was around, why didn't everyone three early fastpasses so they could rebook and refresh more often? Many people don't game the system due to not knowing they can, not caring or just nor bothering.

Because inventory was already gone before stepping foot in the park. There were no spots to grab until later in the day and drops started. Assuming you knew when those were you could do it then.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Like what?

There’s no reason that makes sense. Except that it might cost them a little more for a developer to turn off geo-fencing.

As I said, I think they know more about this than any of us do. I'm not pretending to know the reasoning, but we can presume there is one. I also presume they'll figure out a workaround at some point. Maybe it has to wait for brand new packages to release to international guests (so, 2026 at this point I guess?).

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yes.

With Tron on VQ, closing Adventureland means Jungle Cruise gobbles up an inordinate amount of LL demand and EVERYONE goes to Mine Train for rope drop. And Mine Train sucks butt at opening on time.

or Space Mountain

 

[Sslripley24]

Pretty sure it’s been confirmed that those with visits from the 24th will be able to buy and pre-book 7 or 3 days ahead, depending on where you stay.

So you should be able to book on the 21st for the 24th., 25th & 26th if you have a date based ticket.
If you don’t then you’ll have to do it day by day.

Good to hear, thank you. The start date on our tickets is actually a week before we get to the parks, so if I’m correct, we should be able to book a lightning lane pass for those days even earlier than if we were staying at a resort - if not at the same time, 7 days ahead.

I had been told for my trip that starts on the 24th can only book beginning the 24th for length of our trip (Disney hotel)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Because inventory was already gone before stepping foot in the park. There were no spots to grab until later in the day and drops started. Assuming you knew when those were you could do it then.

Which, oh by the way, was ALSO true with the legendary paper FastPass that everyone loved so much.

I'm old enough to remember getting to Toy Story Midway Mania at 9:07 AM and FastPasses being *completely* distributed for the day.

 

[nickys]

It is but there is a certain irony to it as many of the international guests were the ones wanting a FP+ system back because they can take advantage of the length of stay booking with their longer vacations.

I think many of us wanted it back so we could at least know that we could ride the most popular rides in what is a hugely expensive vacation.

The changes had me punching the air in delight. Right up until this bombshell.

 

[Saskdw]

Everyone can. When FP+ was around, why didn't everyone three early fastpasses so they could rebook and refresh more often? Many people don't game the system due to not knowing they can, not caring or just nor bothering.

In the days of FP+ I didn't even bring my phone to the parks. It was locked in the safe. We never got a 4th FP ever. All FP's were booked from home 60 days before the trip.

Of course now you need your phone to do almost anything. We might try a 4th or 5th LL later in the day, but that would be it for us.

 

[Dranth]

I think many of us wanted it back so we could at least know that we could ride the most popular rides in what is a hugely expensive vacation.

The changes had me punching the air in delight. Right up until this bombshell.

Understandably, and I can't imagine they don't get it worked out at some point but those changes do likely come at the expense of other visitors.