Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[pdude81]

Individual LL purchases (excempt from Genie + unless noted by *)

• Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
• Space Mountain*
• Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind
• Frozen Ever After*
• Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway*
• Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance
• Avatar Flight of Passage
• Expedition Everest – Legend of the Forbidden Mountain*

*not considered individual LL between Feb 25-Aug 7 2022


Do you guys expect them to extend the inclusion of SM, Frozen, MM Railway, and EE in with regular Genie+ to the fall/rest of 2022? Hoping this continues for my early Nov visit.

I think MMRR gets refunded less due to it being an indoor attraction, and since Slinky sometimes takes a while to get going (at least that's my reasoning why that is ILL instead of Slinky, not that you asked). And Space Mountain is just a placeholder for Tron, whenever the hell that thing actually opens. It's just a guess, but if they start limiting the purchase of G+ they can slide the second ILL back out to cash only. Based on information from prior posters, it seems this is all an experiment at this point. I think in August they'll be back to 2 per park as ILL.

 

[mmascari]

Better late than never. The three week delay isn't desired; it's how long it takes for their software engineering team to remove it from all ticketing platforms. No, something like this shouldn't take three weeks. This is a quick insight into how disorganized and poorly constructed their software is.

While I would never say their code is shinny and sparkles, it may be more a function of QA and being risk adverse than anything else.

It could be a simple change, and use a simple targeted QA to be done quick. (Or, it could be a total disaster, but pretend it's not.)

There's probably somebody in the release pipeline who is significantly risk adverse. Probably someone who get's to deal with the operations upper management if it all goes poorly and operations needs to deal with the issues. This person has likely been thoroughly dragged or watched their predecessor suffer that fate. To them, if the system is currently "working" and they're not hearing outrage from operations, never changing anything is what they want. It seems like the first rule of all change managers and release teams is that changes and releases should be as few and infrequent as possible.

Which means, they likely have some complex QA regression, performance, and capacity testing they require before any change can be done. A requirement that probably takes an entire week to actually run. Combined with a hard freeze and strict compliance to the rule, everything takes longer no matter how simple a change might be. Since, see above for the controlling goal.

It'll be a culture thing. Organizations that have a culture of A/B testing, limited initial roll outs, break fast and fix, or rapid deploy and deploy and deploy to deal with issues will operate differently.

The same thing is true about security teams. They're never happy unless nobody can use an application. Cannot be hacked if it's impossible for anyone to access at all.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

While I would never say their code is shinny and sparkles, it may be more a function of QA and being risk adverse than anything else.

I can tell you first hand that it is unfortunately somewhat of a disaster; but it really depends on the team. The main issue is that there are so many systems that offer tickets/reservations that need to be updated and released. Their QA efforts leave a lot to be desired (obvious in many cases).

 

[mmascari]

Materially changing the actual product now would mean they have to notify all who have pre-purchased it and offer a refund; this is not something they plan to do. From what I understand, they are adding the ability to cancel your pre-purchased Genie+ add-on though. And for Guests who complain after the fact, refunds are being issued. No one is being held out to dry here. It takes some work, but Disney is making it right each time.

There are lots of the usability enhancements they could make that wouldn't be material changes.

Not changing time between selecting and purchase or confirmation would be a huge improvement with no material change to the product.

Ability to pick a new LL and then swap for an existing one as a single atomic transaction would be another. (They can't even do this for a park pass, which is even more ridiculous.)

I can see how changing what's included, future scheduling, or other things that impact what the offer is would have more material impacts.

That they're looking at how to "refund a pre-purchase" instead tells me they're worried about the operations cost of processing those refunds with cast members instead of eliminating the need for refunds or the guest experience.

I suppose the ROI on reducing the cost to process 3 refunds by a cast member is higher than the ROI on reducing from 3 to 2 people asking for a refund.

 

[mmascari]

I can tell you first hand that it is unfortunately somewhat of a disaster; but it really depends on the team. The main issue is that there are so many systems that offer tickets/reservations that need to be updated and released. Their QA efforts leave a lot to be desired (obvious in many cases).

That does tend to be how that first person became so risk adverse. They've been burned before.

I'm starting to dread the upcoming trip some. This is supposed to be magical isn't it?

 

[pdude81]

There are lots of the usability enhancements they could make that wouldn't be material changes.

Not changing time between selecting and purchase or confirmation would be a huge improvement with no material change to the product.

Ability to pick a new LL and then swap for an existing one as a single atomic transaction would be another. (They can't even do this for a park pass, which is even more ridiculous.)

I can see how changing what's included, future scheduling, or other things that impact what the offer is would have more material impacts.

That they're looking at how to "refund a pre-purchase" instead tells me they're worried about the operations cost of processing those refunds with cast members instead of eliminating the need for refunds or the guest experience.

I suppose the ROI on reducing the cost to process 3 refunds by a cast member is higher than the ROI on reducing from 3 to 2 people asking for a refund.

The caching of currently available times I think is impossible to get around. Until you actually click and it shows you a proposed time, they don't know what times will be remaining. Otherwise they'd have put a placeholder for you on every attraction because they don't know which one you're picking. The only thing they could do is to take away the earliest time available from that screen altogether so people don't get excited about the options, but that isn't an improvement.

 

[mikejs78]

The caching of currently available times I think is impossible to get around. Until you actually click and it shows you a proposed time, they don't know what times will be remaining. Otherwise they'd have put a placeholder for you on every attraction because they don't know which one you're picking. The only thing they could do is to take away the earliest time available from that screen altogether so people don't get excited about the options, but that isn't an improvement.

I think that's fine. It's when you click and see the proposed time, then click again and get it booked for an entirely different time, that they need to fix. ASAP.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

There are lots of the usability enhancements they could make that wouldn't be material changes.

Not changing time between selecting and purchase or confirmation would be a huge improvement with no material change to the product.

Ability to pick a new LL and then swap for an existing one as a single atomic transaction would be another. (They can't even do this for a park pass, which is even more ridiculous.)

I can see how changing what's included, future scheduling, or other things that impact what the offer is would have more material impacts.

That they're looking at how to "refund a pre-purchase" instead tells me they're worried about the operations cost of processing those refunds with cast members instead of eliminating the need for refunds or the guest experience.

I suppose the ROI on reducing the cost to process 3 refunds by a cast member is higher than the ROI on reducing from 3 to 2 people asking for a refund.

A lot of what you said is being worked on. One day, time discrepancies may just be fixed, for example. How much they invest in fixing this really depends on what they decide for phase 2 of Genie+, but bugs/small enhancements are actively being worked on.

 

[FromMaldonia]

I don't think this is something you have to worry about. It's unclear to me right now if they plan to limit aggressively or only in worst case scenarios; either way, you shouldn't have an issue purchasing it when the window opens. I'd imagine that it would be mid to late morning that may have issues.

The issue really lies with people walking into MK at 2PM, purchasing Genie+ after learning about what this Lightning Lane thing is and then finding no availability.

If that's the case then I don't see the limit helping any of the issues being discussed here. I get it would save those late arrivers from needing refunds, but is that significant? The issues are plenty just with the 7am race to book first LLs of the day and then getting enough rides the rest of the day at acceptable times to make it valuable. If it's already tough to get a desired LL at 11am and 1pm, those additional sales at 2pm aren't contributing to the problem.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

If that's the case then I don't see the limit helping any of the issues being discussed here. I get it would save those late arrivers from needing refunds, but is that significant? The issues are plenty just with the 7am race to book first LLs of the day and then getting enough rides the rest of the day at acceptable times to make it valuable. If it's already tough to get a desired LL at 11am and 1pm, those additional sales at 2pm aren't contributing to the problem.

I agree. I don't believe it will be limited aggressively enough. If they want this to work, ILL needs to go away because Genie+ desperately needs the inventory. Firework viewing areas should also be added. Fantasmic! needs to return.

This is a solvable problem but they can't get out of their own way. They are doing the bare minimum, one at a time, crossing their fingers that it fixes everything.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

They should cap total genie plus to a meaningful number per park per day AND get rid of the individual LL which confuses people and limits usable and desirable inventory. Doubt they will but I think would help.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree. I don't believe it will be limited aggressively enough. If they want this to work, ILL needs to go away because Genie+ desperately needs the inventory. Firework viewing areas should also be added. Fantasmic! needs to return.

This is a solvable problem but they can't get out of their own way. They are doing the bare minimum, one at a time, crossing their fingers that it fixes everything.

It really blows my mind how little they understand park operations. The disconnect between the upper management and the people is unbelievable. Something happened during Covid that has really made them lose touch with the parks.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It really blows my mind how little they understand park operations. The disconnect between the upper management and the people is unbelievable. Something happened during Covid that has really made them lose touch with the parks.

They understand it, they just have to find a way to solve this without meaningfully impacting the revenue that Genie+ generates. You can blame Chapek on that one.

 

[Jrb1979]

They understand it, they just have to find a way to solve this without meaningfully impacting the revenue that Genie+ generates. You can blame Chapek on that one.

It is very easy to solve. Cap sales so guests who buy it feel like it's worth it and at the same raise the price to $20 to make up for the loss in revenue.

 

[crazy4disney]

They understand it, they just have to find a way to solve this without meaningfully impacting the revenue that Genie+ generates. You can blame Chapek on that one.

You obviously have your sources and extremely knowledgable as well….

Question. We all knew FP+ was eventually going to be a paid version at some point been talked about by other insiders as well.
Did FP+ not work hence why they felt the need to change it or was the decision to move to Genie+ strictly a PR one to avoid hearing the noise of now paying for something that was free. Did the Park Pass reservation system truly take away the FP system and they have no other option? (Which no offense they heard anyway). Im just trying to understand the rationale behind taking a system that for resort guests seemed to work fine and was available to everyone to this debacle they are now currently in. Dont get me wrong. I have no
Issue them trying to tap into yet another revenue (well maybe some but this one i can understand it done properly and reasonably).

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It is very easy to solve. Cap sales so guests who buy it feel like it's worth it and at the same raise the price to $20 to make up for the loss in revenue.

The problem is $5 won't solve the issue, that's how bad it is. That's why temporary measures are being put in place until the end of the year. It also isn't great PR to raise the price for a product that already has horrible ratings.

You obviously have your sources and extremely knowledgable as well….

Question. We all knew FP+ was eventually going to be a paid version at some point been talked about by other insiders as well.
Did FP+ not work hence why they felt the need to change it or was the decision to move to Genie+ strictly a PR one to avoid hearing the noise of now paying for something that was free. Did the Park Pass reservation system truly take away the FP system and they have no other option? (Which no offense they heard anyway). Im just trying to understand the rationale behind taking a system that for resort guests seemed to work fine and was available to everyone to this debacle they are now currently in. Dont get me wrong. I have no
Issue them trying to tap into yet another revenue (well maybe some but this one i can understand it done properly and reasonably).

Guests' top complaint about WDW (and specifically FP+) was how much research and planning was required on the front end of trips. There was also an apparent industry standard that allowed for a skip the line feature to become a paid offering and not a free one.

Transitioning away from FP+ had nothing to do with Park Pass. They mangled FP+ to get Park Pass operating but that's not why it didn't return. This was being planned prior to COVID-19 closures; if anything, the already made decision to sunset FP+ simply made it easier to implement Park Pass but they certainly didn't sacrifice the FP+ codebase for it.

Needless to say, mistakes were made and they are well aware of that fact.

 

[Jrb1979]

The problem is $5 won't solve the issue, that's how bad it is. That's why temporary measures are being put in place until the end of the year. It also isn't great PR to raise the price for a product that already has horrible ratings.

Guests' top complaint about WDW (and specifically FP+) was how much research and planning was required on the front end of trips. There was also an apparent industry standard that allowed for a skip the line feature to become a paid offering and not a free one.

Transitioning away from FP+ had nothing to do with Park Pass. They mangled FP+ to get Park Pass operating but that's not why it didn't return. This was being planned prior to COVID-19 closures; if anything, the already made decision to sunset FP+ simply made it easier to implement Park Pass but they certainly didn't sacrifice the FP+ codebase for it.

Needless to say, mistakes were made and they are well aware of that fact.

Bolded is they forgot the other part of it in how they work. At every other park out there it works cause of limited availability.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Bolded is they forgot the other part of it in how they work. At every other park out there it works cause of limited availability.

I believe they simply expected it to work as well as MaxPass without realizing that different parks, different guests and changing key components would have drastic impacts on that system.

 

[crazy4disney]

The problem is $5 won't solve the issue, that's how bad it is. That's why temporary measures are being put in place until the end of the year. It also isn't great PR to raise the price for a product that already has horrible ratings.

Guests' top complaint about WDW (and specifically FP+) was how much research and planning was required on the front end of trips. There was also an apparent industry standard that allowed for a skip the line feature to become a paid offering and not a free one.

Transitioning away from FP+ had nothing to do with Park Pass. They mangled FP+ to get Park Pass operating but that's not why it didn't return. This was being planned prior to COVID-19 closures; if anything, the already made decision to sunset FP+ simply made it easier to implement Park Pass but they certainly didn't sacrifice the FP+ codebase for it.

Needless to say, mistakes were made and they are well aware of that fact.

Thank you once again for your reply and explanations. Yes agreed a Disney trip definitely required some planning but its not like other trips do not but i get that. In my experience tho it was easier to get a Fop or 7D FP than it was to get a ressie for CRT 180 days out along with other character meals lol.

 

[Jrb1979]

I believe they simply expected it to work as well as MaxPass without realizing that different parks, different guests and changing key components would have drastic impacts on that system.

IMO what's backfired on them is having a skip the line system available to everyone since day 1. Now they are trying to get it out of people's heads thats not how they work.