Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Sirwalterraleigh]

After trying to get tickets to see Springsteen a couple weeks ago, I no longer think of Disney as being overpriced.

You know that’s the comparison fallacy…but I’ll let you slide

I’m mad at the boss too

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree with what you’re saying but one could argue the experience with FP+ was WAY better than this…but resort guests had the advantage there. This new system has everyone playing the gambling craps table at 7am each day hoping a ride and a time they can do will show up. It’s just a ridiculous way to do it…BUT it has a lot of people buying it. Job well done internally and someone got a big bonus for implementing it somewhere.

Yes more attractions or less people using it would help the system, but the old system was much better in so many ways.

They basically took a broken system, made it worse, changed the name, and charge for it now

Guest experience is intrinsically tied to capacity. Remove a bunch of capacity from outside the FastPass+ system and it would be the exact same issues. You keep refusing to look beyond the system, focusing only on personal experiences under different operating conditions. Virtual queue systems don't operate in their own discrete vacuum, they are impacted by larger park-wide operations and reductions in capacity have a compounded impact.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It would have to be the same 3 month rejection of prices by everybody. How do you propose that happens in the absence of some type of consumer "unity"? Or maybe you could stop going for several 3-month spans and see if that works.

I didn’t say it was realistic…but it is what needs to happen. However if wishes and but’s were candy and nuts..

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So we’re back to where we started: “genie is so bad because fastpass+ was so good…”
Without any actual considerations of current details?

I’m Dizzy. Fastpass+ apparently caused Stockholm syndrome

 

[Chi84]

I didn’t say it was realistic…but it is what needs to happen. However if wishes and but’s were candy and nuts..

So we’re talking about magic then. Seems an odd basis for a plan or a criticism of others’ behavior, but at least we’re in the right place.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't care because I recognise that we all put value in different things. I enjoy having dinner at Cinderella's Royal Table because I love interacting with the princesses, but others view it as a huge waste of money. Some spend top dollar to stay at a Disney hotel, whereas I'm never in the room long enough to feel that it's worth it to me. And so on and so forth.

These are personal, discretionary decisions, and the real silliness lies in thinking that you are the arbiter of some supposedly objective standard that we should all subscribe to.

You are not an individual at wdw…believe what you will.

That’s why your room at port orleans is $245 and your character meal is $79.99 for a 10 year old. But it was millions of “individual decisions” that lead to that.

 

[crazy4disney]

So we’re back to where we started: “genie is so bad because fastpass+ was so good…”
Without any actual considerations of current details?

I’m Dizzy. Fastpass+ apparently caused Stockholm syndrome

Honestly i think no matter what side you are on we are ALL in agreement that this is a monster Disney created and the fact the parks lack capacity is the ultimate issue here…. And for Disney as ive said before its a catch 22. Do we build more to alleviate of this pressure and risk people not paying which imo is a stupid logic bc if we have learned one thing people will pay for Disney but once the stop going bc of complete and total disgust and dissatisfaction good luck bringing them
back…

 

[crazy4disney]

You are not an individual at wdw…believe what you will.

That’s why your room at port orleans is $245 and your character meal is $79.99 for a 10 year old. But it was millions of “individual decisions” that lead to that.

View attachment 658731

I know the point you are making but character meals are truly not that much more expensive than if you sat down to eat elsewhere on property and grabbed an app dinner and dessert along w a regular drink.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Guest experience is intrinsically tied to capacity. Remove a bunch of capacity from outside the FastPass+ system and it would be the exact same issues. You keep refusing to look beyond the system, focusing only on personal experiences under different operating conditions. Virtual queue systems don't operate in their own discrete vacuum, they are impacted by larger park-wide operations and reductions in capacity have a compounded impact.

Yes I’m using personal experience for my opinions and I know Disney needs a TON more attractions for capacity

but what operating conditions are making things different/worse now vs when we had fp+? More ride breakdowns?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So we’re talking about magic then. Seems an odd basis for a plan or a criticism of others’ behavior, but at least we’re in the right place.

It’s not the “basis of criticism”…it the unfortunate reality of things.

You don’t seem to want to pay or get up at 6:45 to scramble for ride reservations…which I understand…

But you think after hours at charge was “great “ as attendance swelled and they didn’t respond by adding things or extending hours …and you had to “experience boo bash”…

There’s an easy mental bridge to cross on all of these things over time. But we don’t have to agree all the time.

Genie annoys me…but doesn’t offend me as it seems to many. I can trace back how we got there and accept that it was happening even if I think it sucks.

“I wish you good fortune in the wars to come”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know the point you are making but character meals are truly not that much more expensive than if you sat down to eat elsewhere on property and grabbed an app dinner and dessert along w a regular drink.

I’m not “angry” at that…though I see how people think my examples are some sort of axe to grind. I’m just using them as anecdotes to remind that everyone and all things that we do and consume their are part of a construct. In an ideal world - that wouldn’t be the case.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly i think no matter what side you are on we are ALL in agreement that this is a monster Disney created and the fact the parks lack capacity is the ultimate issue here…. And for Disney as ive said before its a catch 22. Do we build more to alleviate of this pressure and risk people not paying which imo is a stupid logic bc if we have learned one thing people will pay for Disney but once the stop going bc of complete and total disgust and dissatisfaction good luck bringing them
back…

Here here…

And I think that’s what Lazy is trying to say in the end…

Every suggestion of “simple…just do ____” is a declaration that won’t work because it’s not understanding the fundamental math problem that they can get by with ops tricks/direction. That is what these queuing systems are: misdirection to try and balance the load.

What’s disappointing is Disney was EXCELLENT at that…they practically invented it. They’re so bad at it now. Just lost the edge because they decided theme park realities don’t have to be adhered too any longer as money priorities changed.

In 2000 all the hotel rooms were filled and they estimated 44,000,000 gate clicks
In 2019 all rooms were not filled and they estimated around $55,000,000

Disney has attempted to tell themselves that a “missing component” isn’t the issue…because it will cost them more money to make money. Blue sky.

 

[Touchdown]

Ok…this thread is sideways…but I did not follow KI for a long time. It used To be a pretty legit park…and I hoped it still was. Wow…didn’t realize cedar fair bought it (it was a paramount park)…but they aren’t kidding Around. Major B&M presence now…and the woodies. Great looking park.

Now I want to do a dolly/KI combo trip.

You would enjoy it. KI is starting to really outshine its more famous sister park in the state.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes I’m using personal experience for my opinions

What operating conditions are making things different/worse now vs when we had fp+? More ride breakdowns?

You’re ignoring the context of your experience. You’re visits aren’t in controlled parameters.

Everything in a park impacts virtual queue systems, and the more people you want using a virtual queue system the more capacity you actually need outside of the system. All of the things that are still not open or operating at fully capacity have an influence. Every closed gift shop or unmanned register at a quick service venue is an impact. Missing streetmosphere performances is an impact. Rides going down are an impact. Construction is an impact. Everything is interrelated. Parks are designed for people to be in queues. If you decide to take people out of queues you need someplace to put them. If you suddenly don’t have places to put those people, taking them out of the queues is going to be a problem.

 

[Chi84]

It’s not the “basis of criticism”…it the unfortunate reality of things.

You don’t seem to want to pay or get up at 6:45 to scramble for ride reservations…which I understand…

But you think after hours at charge was “great “ as attendance swelled and they didn’t respond by adding things or extending hours …and you had to “experience boo bash”…

There’s an easy mental bridge to cross on all of these things over time. But we don’t have to agree all the time.

Genie annoys me…but doesn’t offend me as it seems to many. I can trace back how we got there and accept that it was happening even if I think it sucks.

“I wish you good fortune in the wars to come”

If the point you’re trying to make is that businesses base prices on available supply and consumer demand, I hate to tell you but it’s not really all that insightful. Of course millions of individual decisions led to Disney’s current level of pricing.

I’m fine with the pricing as long as I don’t have to get up at 6:45 in a mad scramble for rides I may or may not get. I’d be willing to pay for a system that let me schedule rides. You’re willing to accept Genie+ but don’t like people making decisions that lead to higher prices. People are different.

 

[GhostHost1000]

You’re ignoring the context of your experience. You’re visits aren’t in controlled parameters.

Everything in a park impacts virtual queue systems, and the more people you want using a virtual queue system the more capacity you actually need outside of the system. All of the things that are still not open or operating at fully capacity have an influence. Every closed gift shop or unmanned register at a quick service venue is an impact. Missing streetmosphere performances is an impact. Rides going down are an impact. Construction is an impact. Everything is interrelated. Parks are designed for people to be in queues. If you decide to take people out of queues you need someplace to put them. If you suddenly don’t have places to put those people, taking them out of the queues is going to be a problem.

Completely agree with that….but do we have any numbers on the crowds now vs the crowds then or what is closed or consuming less people now vs what was then?

It makes sense but there have also been things added since Fp+ along with park reservations limiting people plus international travel isn’t back where it used to be yet so I just wonder how close or off it may be to know if we are comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges

Either way it’s a poison apple Disney has placed on a platter for everyone and we are taking the bait

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You would enjoy it. KI is starting to really outshine its more famous sister park in the state.

And I don’t have a problem with the other one…but this is good to hear.

Still Iong for younger days and Geauga Lake, However…sometimes…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If the point you’re trying to make is that businesses base prices on available supply and consumer demand, I hate to tell you but it’s not really all that insightful. Of course millions of individual decisions led to Disney’s current level of pricing.

I’m fine with the pricing as long as I don’t have to get up at 6:45 in a mad scramble for rides I may or may not get. I’d be willing to pay for a system that let me schedule rides. You’re willing to accept Genie+ but don’t like people making decisions that lead to higher prices. People are different.

I’m saying they manipulated their consumers and “got what they want”…except they didn’t consider what they would do when they “succeeded”

Boondoggle from hubris.

I totally can see you frustration with the 7 am daily hassle. How couldn’t I? I don’t like it either and it’s a drag. In June…I had to quarterback the app so everyone else had fun. It worked but it’s not ideal.

But consider this: I think the 60 day lazy prebooks were a bigger disaster…it exposed just how weak their management under Iger had become and leads directly to the situation we have. The answer was construction to stay ahead…not shell games with less supply and more demands. Prices won’t work either because of there limitations “in the market”

You are not wrong…but I’m not either. It’s really bad management in parks in a company that does a lot of things well. This really isn’t one of them anymore.

Now let’s not fight…the kids always get worried when mom and dad fight.

 

[LittleBuford]

But it was millions of “individual decisions” that lead to that.

Yours included. You are as guilty as the rest of us (if we’re really going to frame it in those terms, which I’d prefer not to). The only people with a right—a questionable one at that—to call others’ Disney spending selfish are those who have, out of principle, truly stopped funding the machine until things get better. You are not in that category, and so your criticisms carry no weight.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yours included. You are as guilty as the rest of us (if we’re really going to frame it in those terms, which I’d prefer not to). The only people with a right—a questionable one at that—to call others’ Disney spending selfish are those who have, out of principle, truly stopped funding the machine until things get better. You are not in that category, and so your criticisms carry no weight.

I invite you to find an instance where I deflect or deny my actions - repeat business - as part of the problem.

You won’t…I never put it on anyone until AFTER it’s on me first. I don’t believe in glass houses.