Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[lazyboy97o]

From what I've been reading here and on other Disney sites, everyone has been moved into the out group.

And that was always going to happen with FastPass+. How each system impacts operations is very similar.

Also, another thing is that some people just complain. It doesn't really matter which system Disney puts in place. If they aren't walking up and getting on whatever ride they want whenever they want to ride it they'll complain.

Adequate capacity would effectively allow this to happen. Disney has chosen not to provide such capacity, even on low attendance days they modify operations to make crowding more similar to a busy day.

 

[Jrb1979]

And that was always going to happen with FastPass+. How each system impacts operations is very similar.


Adequate capacity would effectively allow this to happen. Disney has chosen not to provide such capacity, even on low attendance days they modify operations to make crowding more similar to a busy day.

In Disney's defense of modifying operations they aren't the only park that does it. I'm pretty sure all parks do that in some ways. Many parks will operate 2 trains on a coaster instead of 3 on low attendance days.

It is a shell game with Genie+ as it was with FP+. While they lack capacity they also refuse to make the systems they roll out work. In theory Genie+ should be a great system. Especially with the way it was supposed to work. The problem stems from making it accessible to everyone. All that has done is make most guests unhappy. Like I said earlier people have posted that Genie+ works best when only 10% of guests have it. I don't expect them to make availability that low but there has to be away to get it closer to that number then the amount of people who have it now.

Unfortunately it feels like those in charge like the $$$ that's coming in from Genie+ then trying to make guests happy.

 

[crazy4disney]

You still keep equating criticizing FastPass+ with defending Genie+. That is not true. They’re not that different. It was always a shell game, you’ve just been moved into the out group.

Its been a shell game for years nothing new…. I would love to know the group that is now part of the “in” and able to get the same amount of quality FP as they were when it existed. And FTR. When i used it in November. Yes it $ucked but was able to obtain SDD each day at HSS… used my DAS wisely for FoP & Rise when eating breakfast in both those parks by obtaining a return time after we ate (yes this was an advantage using DAS but never needed with FP). Was able to get a VQ for Remy and i dont think there was a ride i wanted that i couldnt end up getting with Genie as the day went on. It was a matter of the times and waiting to ride & the fact you cant gradually go from ride to ride in an area which i think there is a funny meme out there …. If you feel the latter experience is better so be it we can agree to disagree but the system stinks bc you still need to plan so many other things yet the most important you cant?!? Lets not even discuss the fact you cant modify & im sure choosing to ride an intense ride after eating or opting out of choosing that precious genie is a fun choice as well.

 

[Chi84]

And that was always going to happen with FastPass+. How each system impacts operations is very similar.


Adequate capacity would effectively allow this to happen. Disney has chosen not to provide such capacity, even on low attendance days they modify operations to make crowding more similar to a busy day.

Well I guess somebody's got to like Genie+. From the guest satisfaction scores being reported, you don't have a lot of company.

 

[Jrb1979]

Well I guess somebody's got to like Genie+. From the guest satisfaction scores being reported, you don't have a lot of company.

He's not saying he likes Genie+. He's saying that FP+ and Genie+ are the same. All they did was move the shells around. Due to demand FP+ would have the same issues that Genie+ does due to lack of capacity. The difference is you can plan your day better with FP+ but with how busy the parks are right now I doubt you would get the same rides as before.

Unless they start adding a lot of capacity in short amount of time this is what you end up with. One group of guests won't be happy and right now that group is all of them. If they aren't going to prioritize resort guests or go back to pre-booking then they need to up the price. My suggestion is make it $30-$40. That should eliminate enough guests to make guest satisfaction go up.

 

[James Alucobond]

If you feel the latter experience is better so be it we can agree to disagree but the system stinks bc you still need to plan so many other things yet the most important you cant?!? Lets not even discuss the fact you cant modify & im sure choosing to ride an intense ride after eating or opting out of choosing that precious genie is a fun choice as well.

He literally never said the current experience is better, just that both represent a shuffling of limited capacity, and that both create in and out groups. FP+ was almost certainly preferable from an optimizer's perspective because you were locked in early for a good chunk of your day, but if you were in the out group, there was no recovery. Genie+ shifts around the opportunity to be in or out throughout the day, so it's a lot of effort to re-create an optimal FP+ experience for a member of the former in group.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Whats funny is those same people were the ones who complained and criticized FP+ and how it didnt work yet you were guaranteed at least one of them if not more and 3 upfront at the time of your choosing…

It didn’t work for Disney…which no one seems to want to let penetrate their cranium. And guess who gets the deciding vote?

But on top of that…the “guaranteed 3” is such a pitifully low bar. That’s what you want? Kinda sad.

It didn’t work…it’s like the backup quarterback around here. And it’s moot because it’s not returning.

 

[Chi84]

He's not saying he likes Genie+. He's saying that FP+ and Genie+ are the same. All they did was move the shells around. Due to demand FP+ would have the same issues that Genie+ does due to lack of capacity. The difference is you can plan your day better with FP+ but with how busy the parks are right now I doubt you would get the same rides as before.

Unless they start adding a lot of capacity in short amount of time this is what you end up with. One group of guests won't be happy and right now that group is all of them. If they aren't going to prioritize resort guests or go back to pre-booking then they need to up the price. My suggestion is make it $30-$40. That should eliminate enough guests to make guest satisfaction go up.

I honestly don't know what Disney is going to do to alleviate the mess they made with the park reservations/Genie+/ILL/restricted park hopper system they created. I just know that the system does not work for my group. Park reservations, in particular, have eliminated what little flexibility remained at WDW.

It's not my job to figure out how to fix Disney. That's Disney's job. Disney's job is to provide a quality experience, and my job is to pay for it.

The year before the pandemic, my group of six (now a group of nine with three very young grandkids) took a week-long vacation that was pretty much perfect in every way. We are DVC members and were annual pass holders. We stayed at Kidani, visited the water parks in the mornings on very hot days, then went to the parks afterwards. On some days, we visited other resorts in the evenings for dining and entertainment, and we loved Disney Springs for the same reason.

We did Highway in the Sky dine-around, dessert parties, the Halloween party, Cali Grill brunch, and at least one tour that trip. We were able to get reservations for all the rides we wanted as well as all the TS restaurants (did at least one per day). It was expensive, but worth it.

Our trip in April 2022 was a different story altogether. Yes, it was in large part due to the change in composition of our group. But not being able to plan around people's schedules was a disaster. We weren't able to get many of the rides we wanted, and some Genie+/ILLs popped up at very inconvenient times. Once, we got a completely different time for an ILL than what we booked.

I didn't hesitate at all in deciding what to do about this mess. Our family vacation for April 2023 will likely be a Royal Caribbean cruise (still in the planning stages). DH and I have room reservations for October, but it is very possible that we will cancel if I don't see the situation improving by then.

Maybe Disney has decided that it doesn't want to cater to my type of group and prefers to make things better for people who want to ride every ride in MK on a single day without having to plan in advance. I'm okay with that as long as I know that's their decision. What I won't do is go to WDW and pay a ridiculous amount of money for the limited number of rides they have available. Even worse, I won't go if I don't have the assurance that I'll be able to skip the lines if I do want to pay the amount they charge. It's Disney's job to decide if they want to keep me as a guest.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

He literally never said the current experience is better, just that both represent a shuffling of limited capacity, and that both create in and out groups. FP+ was almost certainly preferable from an optimizer's perspective because you were locked in early for a good chunk of your day, but if you were in the out group, there was no recovery. Genie+ shifts around the opportunity to be in or out throughout the day, so it's a lot of effort to re-create an optimal FP+ experience for a member of the former in group.

+ also created the “3 and put phenomenon” which is of zero to little use for park operations and management. You go in, do you tier 1 and your 2 throwaways and then maybe lunch and out. And then show up for fireworks. That was NEVER what was intended from the repeat crowd (and that’s the gravy train clientele) and they were getting hit in the wallet.
It was “lost potential revenue”

 

[Chi84]

But on top of that…the “guaranteed 3” is such a pitifully low bar. That’s what you want? Kinda sad.

Trust me, it's much sadder when you pay nearly $100 a day for your group and don't even get that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well I guess somebody's got to like Genie+. From the guest satisfaction scores being reported, you don't have a lot of company.

Where did I say anything positive about Genie+?

Maybe Disney has decided that it doesn't want to cater to my type of group

Catering to your group is very much what lead to this situation. The underlying impacts to operations are the same. The sudden loss of capacity due to the pandemic just accelerated something that was always going to happen. More planning requires more park-wide capacity, capacity that Disney was not adding.

 

[Chi84]

Where did I say anything positive about Genie+?

Catering to your group is very much what lead to this situation. The underlying impacts to operations are the same. The sudden loss of capacity due to the pandemic just accelerated something that was always going to happen. More planning requires more park-wide capacity, capacity that Disney was not adding.

Fine, we've already decided to help out with the capacity problem. Maybe Disney won't notice or won't care - as I said, it's their call.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Regarding FP+ vs. Genie+… it would be interesting to see someone who is statistics savvy break down the difference in how people move with these two systems. But I think it breaks down to this: Genie+ operates on a beginning-of-the-day “dump” of all attractions at the same time. So everyone is taking whatever they can get from that pool as fast as they can. FP+ operated with more forced modulation involved - people could choose three rides at specific times. So there appeared to be more availability for the specific rides that people wanted, while their overall number of choices was limited.

To my mind Genie+ ends up being the equivalent of a Black Friday sale, and I think that’s why customer satisfaction is lower with it. I think it’s a smaller niche that likes that approach. I’m not saying FP+ was perfect, but for me it sounds much better, relatively speaking.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Trust me, it's much sadder when you pay nearly $100 a day for your group and don't even get that.

That can’t…and should never have been the “standard”

Perhaps if they didn’t “tier” them…then I can give on this.

But the minute they put in those…my outloud response was “uh oh…they just killed their crowd management”. In public. That’s what happened. All the tales of how great + was seen to be some self soothing nostalgia…probably mostly because people liked sitting on their computer at home (where it always sucks and only great Disney can fix it) months in advance and clicking instead of doing more “the game” as had to be done day of on the prior fastpass? Just how it seems. I get both sides of that take.

Because they don’t have a “magic” system here. They’re not gonna drive attendance away and they won’t go on a crash building program to get things up to snuff that will SOMETIMES result in over operating/over staffing.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Trust me, it's much sadder when you pay nearly $100 a day for your group and don't even get that.

It’s more like $125-150…and you then have to fall in line and pay $60+ (for 4) a day in line surcharges.

Yes…that’s where we are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree with all of that and they have to be careful not to price people out from going at all. I'm not saying price it at $150.

Here is 2 things I know, one being that from what some have said Genie+ works at its best when it's limited to 10% of guests and that too many guests have it each day. The second being that out of all the complaints about Genie+ is that you aren't guaranteed to get any of the top attractions each day.

From reading all that there has to be a middle ground to get the number of guests using it lower each day. I'm not suggesting raising it to $150 but there has to be a sweet spot for price that eliminates some guests.

What happens at 7:03 EST on 12/26 when every since travel agent, cousin, blog, vlog and travel reporter tells you to “invest” in genie + and 150,000 are descending on magic kingdom in 1 hour?

That is where the misstep is on your theory.

And then it spreads out every other day…like a fungus

 

[crazy4disney]

It didn’t work for Disney…which no one seems to want to let penetrate their cranium. And guess who gets the deciding vote?

But on top of that…the “guaranteed 3” is such a pitifully low bar. That’s what you want? Kinda sad.

It didn’t work…it’s like the backup quarterback around here. And it’s moot because it’s not returning.

Who ever said i only wanted 3 Genie attractions?!? I 100% agree anyone who sets thats bar Disney is salivating to get more of them
In there. I was simply referring to FP+. I would easily get in the MK double digit FP hence why i keep saying and other threads DAS was NO huge advantage bc i was so successful with FP add ons…

 

[crazy4disney]

He literally never said the current experience is better, just that both represent a shuffling of limited capacity, and that both create in and out groups. FP+ was almost certainly preferable from an optimizer's perspective because you were locked in early for a good chunk of your day, but if you were in the out group, there was no recovery. Genie+ shifts around the opportunity to be in or out throughout the day, so it's a lot of effort to re-create an optimal FP+ experience for a member of the former in group.

But for so many that are locked into not being able to choose a 2nd ride until say 11am at HS when they booked say SDD after that time now what? Again. I dk how it is now but dam good luck finding another solid attraction you can now ride within another 2 hour window.

 

[Jrb1979]

What happens at 7:03 EST on 12/26 when every since travel agent, cousin, blog, vlog and travel reporter tells you to “invest” in genie + and 150,000 are descending on magic kingdom in 1 hour?

That is where the misstep is on your theory.

And then it spreads out every other day…like a fungus

Unless they add a bunch of capacity tomorrow this is what we have. Genie+ doesn't work as intended due to too many guests using it. How do you solve that? Cause pricing people out isn't an option.

 

[nickys]

But for so many that are locked into not being able to choose a 2nd ride until say 11am at HS when they booked say SDD after that time now what? Again. I dk how it is now but dam good luck finding another solid attraction you can now ride within another 2 hour window.

This is not intended as any defence of G+ but you can ride almost every ride with less than a 2 hr wait. You could even stand in line for Slinky or Rise and get on.

If you booked Slinky and got a 2pm return time, and arrive at park opening then you can choose any ride and go and wait in standby. genie+ isn’t going to change the fact that you’re going to have to wait for something during the day. And if you’re going to do Rise you either wait or pay. So choose Rise or Falcon, ToT or RnR, TSM, Runaway Train, Star Tours. And at 11am you see what’s showing.