Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[crazy4disney]

Not only does it almost always cost more…

They buried the cost in lodging and tickets when it was “free”. And the rate of increase was far above market rate at the time to profit above the curve.

again im sure they played with other prices or did they? bc honestly i always booked early before any price increases for rooms or tickets and simply called and had it added to my existing ressie... granted my case may be rare with how we dined but the plan always saved me money whether it was "free" & we upgraded or outright purchased...

 

[ChrisM]

It was a bait and switch. One born out over time if you analyze the details.

It was actually a brilliant Iger move - his best in Orlando - he got people to pay more for food across the board and they still beg to do it again.

The two simplest ways to identify the suckers:

1) Fan of the dining plan?

2) DVC member?

Only kidding!
(Not really.)

 

[crazy4disney]

American businesses have taught us that once general public perception decides your product is a “ripoff”…you’re done. Few if any actual comebacks from that.

That’s always been a delicate balance they are aware of because of the legacy mindset. When you have cutthroats who would be ok with $200 mil and getting fired in 5 years…where’s the firewall to guard against that?

yes once you lose trust in someone they will find other ways to spend their disposable money & if the other comment is in regards to a CEO i agree the structure for plenty of these companies are setup where there truly is no drawback etc.. are these CEO's worth the money? maybe maybe not but is what the rate is fopr them so they are able to get paid for them... personally everyone loved Iger im still trying to find the love affair with him... stock basically was flat i think when ran numbers up like 8-10% during the biggest bull runs ever yet he was idolized by so many & you can basically blame him now for the mess they are in

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The two simplest ways to identify the suckers:

1) Fan of the dining plan?

2) DVC member?

Only kidding!
(Not really.)

I can’t say I disagree with that in principle. And I have DVC.

I’d never pay the price…since around 2010. Math is fun and simple.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes once you lose trust in someone they will find other ways to spend their disposable money & if the other comment is in regards to a CEO i agree the structure for plenty of these companies are setup where there truly is no drawback etc.. are these CEO's worth the money? maybe maybe not but is what the rate is fopr them so they are able to get paid for them... personally everyone loved Iger im still trying to find the love affair with him... stock basically was flat i think when ran numbers up like 8-10% during the biggest bull runs ever yet he was idolized by so many & you can basically blame him now for the mess they are in

Stock was “up” because the entire market multiplied by 3.

The us government went hands off for going on 40 years now and the foxes guard their financial henhouse.

Iger was “stable”…and that has a lot of value. But the direction he took has lead to robber baron tactics and that will get worse…particularly in the parks unit.

Sorry “parks and all the crap at Walmart” unit
If that isn’t a warning bell…I don’t know what is?

 

[crazy4disney]

The two simplest ways to identify the suckers:

1) Fan of the dining plan?

2) DVC member?

Only kidding!
(Not really.)

Explain to me how am i a sucker for being a fan of the dining plan? again it comes down to simple math of my meals cost more than what the plan would cost i purchase the plan if it doesnt i choose to pass on it.... its literally that simple and all it took was a simple phone call to get those prices to ensure accuracy vs what the website would show... in regards to DVC you can argue both ways depending on when you bought... i looked into getting in about 6 years ago but decided against it meanwhile the price per point has increased probably 40% & im sure people who bought earlier have made even more on their purchase...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Explain to me how am i a sucker for being a fan of the dining plan? again it comes down to simple math oif my meals cost more than what the plan would cost i purchase the plan if it doesnt i choose to pass on it.... its literally that simple and all it took was a simple phone call to get those prices to ensure accuracy vs what the website would show... in regards to DVC you can argue both ways depending on when you bought... i looked into getting in about 6 years ago but decided against it meanwhile the price per point has increased probably 40% & im sure people who bought earlier have made even more on their purchase...

The pricing before they killed it was where you had to eat right to left to stay at the rate level. No one should ever have to do that.

But they also played this little game where they increased the menu prices, then the dining plan, then the menu prices, then the dining plan. Seesaw from hell.

I’ve been eating at wdw for a LONG time…the prices have risen far above “inflation”.
We all pay Much more for food than we didn lb for lb than pre dining plan.

Also…dining plan is a shield for streamline menus/costs/quality. That has been pointed out since it’s inception too.

 

[ChrisM]

Explain to me how am i a sucker for being a fan of the dining plan? again it comes down to simple math oif my meals cost more than what the plan would cost i purchase the plan if it doesnt i choose to pass on it.... its literally that simple and all it took was a simple phone call to get those prices to ensure accuracy vs what the website would show... in regards to DVC you can argue both ways depending on when you bought... i looked into getting in about 6 years ago but decided against it meanwhile the price per point has increased probably 40% & im sure people who bought earlier have made even more on their purchase...

Mostly tongue-in-cheek, but most folks who purchase the dining plan do so more because they like the idea of pre-paying for their meals, relieving themselves of the burden of having to budget for food during vacation.

There's nothing wrong with that in theory, but it's really more just a benefit for Disney and not the consumer, and said consumer usually ends up paying more than they otherwise would. Sure, there's value in peace of mind - but then there are follow-on effects of eating way more than you otherwise would "because you paid for it", the number of guests paying for it "up front" on credit anyway, and the homogenization and general cheapening of menus to cater to the influx of dining plan purchasers who would otherwise not be eating at table service restaurants.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

this is something i would love to be educated on bc to me it was simple math especially if you had your meals booked 6 months out... if the meals cost more than the plan buy the plan if not opt out.. make sure any snack you get to use the credit on was the pricier ones and call it a day... its something that always baffled me when people who go back and forth over it... not to mention the refillable mug we would get lol

Are those prebooked meals character buffets that went from $15 in 2000 to $60 in 2021? Are they “two credits” for some shoe leather at lecellier.

The “value” is based on prices raised to get you to buy a dining plan that many don’t use fully. And if I’m not on the dining plan and eat the sit downs - which I do almost always - then where has my bill gone in “support” of the dining plan?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Mostly tongue-in-cheek, but most folks who purchase the dining plan do so more because they like the idea of pre-paying for their meals, relieving themselves of the burden of having to budget for food during vacation.

There's nothing wrong with that in theory, but it's really more just a benefit for Disney and not the consumer, and said consumer usually ends up paying more than they otherwise would. Sure, there's value in peace of mind - but then there are follow-on effects of eating way more than you otherwise would "because you paid for it", the number of guests paying for it "up front" on credit anyway, and the homogenization and general cheapening of menus to cater to the influx of dining plan purchasers who would otherwise not be eating at table service restaurants.

Exactly.

The original dining plan was cheap, included 3 courses and gratuity. Then they skinned it and charged alot more.

The frequent defense - prior to the plague - was “it’s worth it to me for the convenience and not worrying about it”
Ok…but you are getting ripped. Im not telling you not to do it…but it doesn’t change the reality.

It’s like valet parking. You don’t need it, there’s a better way…but people do it for the brain juju they get off doing it.

I’m told a shockingly large number of people using DDP don’t tip also. That is reprehensible if true. That’s literally feeding the corporate “pigs” and starving the messenger

 

[crazy4disney]

The pricing before they killed it was where you had to eat right to left to stay at the rate level. No one should ever have to do that.

But they also played this little game where they increased the menu prices, then the dining plan, then the menu prices, then the dining plan. Seesaw from hell.

I’ve been eating at wdw for a LONG time…the prices have risen far above “inflation”.
We all pay Much more for food than we didn lb for lb than pre dining plan.

Also…dining plan is a shield for streamline menus/costs/quality. That has been pointed out since it’s inception too.

yes i understand that it definitely increased prices but im talking simply numbers once they decided to go this route... i dont think anyone well i take that back plenty of people are naive to that fact im just saying once they started this and laid down these new "rules" the game was very simple imo do some math and if it works great if not just as great... not to mention at what price does meeting characters and saving that time in the parks play into your 'value" of said meal? I know for me it was a huge plus as well bc it saved me time from having to see them in the parks and take time away from my park day... Streamlining meals i would somewhat agree but to me there are still plenty of different options for the character places where its not all the same items at each place....

 

[bhg469]

Exactly.

The original dining plan was cheap, included 3 courses and gratuity. Then they skinned it and charged alot more.

The frequent defense - prior to the plague - was “it’s worth it to me for the convenience and not worrying about it”
Ok…but you are getting ripped. Im not telling you not to do it…but it doesn’t change the reality.

It’s like valet parking. You don’t need it, there’s a better way…but people do it for the brain juju they get off doing it.

I’m told a shockingly large number of people using DDP don’t tip also. That is reprehensible if true. That’s literally feeding the corporate “pigs” and starving the messenger

The removal of appetizers was a big miss for us.. The price immediately became not worth it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes i understand that it definitely increased prices but im talking simply numbers once they decided to go this route... i dont think anyone well i take that back plenty of people are naive to that fact im just saying once they started this and laid down these new "rules" the game was very simple imo do some math and if it works great if not just as great... not to mention at what price does meeting characters and saving that time in the parks play into your 'value" of said meal? I know for me it was a huge plus as well bc it saved me time from having to see them in the parks and take time away from my park day... Streamlining meals i would somewhat agree but to me there are still plenty of different options for the character places where its not all the same items at each place....

So character buffets then? Got it.

Have you noticed that they haven’t brought it back and the restaurants are fairly open and not super busy? They definitely were for me…
And the ONLY thing not back are all the character buffets?

So is that a correlation? Ask yourself.

 

[crazy4disney]

Mostly tongue-in-cheek, but most folks who purchase the dining plan do so more because they like the idea of pre-paying for their meals, relieving themselves of the burden of having to budget for food during vacation.

There's nothing wrong with that in theory, but it's really more just a benefit for Disney and not the consumer, and said consumer usually ends up paying more than they otherwise would. Sure, there's value in peace of mind - but then there are follow-on effects of eating way more than you otherwise would "because you paid for it", the number of guests paying for it "up front" on credit anyway, and the homogenization and general cheapening of menus to cater to the influx of dining plan purchasers who would otherwise not be eating at table service restaurants.

I would agree anyone who chose to pay upfront so they didnt have to while there w/o knowing if they were paying more were idiots and Disney salivated at that those guests... for me i didnt dine differently especially with a child so again i get what you are trying to say but in my case it saved me a good amount of money and last year and now this year i am definitely feeling the effect of not having the "free" version or even full priced version of it.

 

[crazy4disney]

Are those prebooked meals character buffets that went from $15 in 2000 to $60 in 2021? Are they “two credits” for some shoe leather at lecellier.

The “value” is based on prices raised to get you to buy a dining plan that many don’t use fully. And if I’m not on the dining plan and eat the sit downs - which I do almost always - then where has my bill gone in “support” of the dining plan?

as i said it worked for me and only because i always booked character meals and upgraded or paid for deluxe as it was me and my daughter in 1 room and my mom in another and when i was still married 3 in 1 room and they allowed me to use the extra 2 meals for my mom... i have no clue what the prices were before and after etc & never wasted any credits on a 2 credit dining experience,,,

 

[crazy4disney]

So character buffets then? Got it.

Have you noticed that they haven’t brought it back and the restaurants are fairly open and not super busy? They definitely were for me…
And the ONLY thing not back are all the character buffets?

So is that a correlation? Ask yourself.

yes i only used it for characters & my snack credits were always used for the most expensive snacks.... that was gonna be my question to you honestly ... if the Dining plan was such a plus for Disney why have they Not brought it back? & i think come September 9/12 will have returned.... as far as being busy im not there but ill say this i had issues booking some places and i couldnt get ONE garden grille reservation for my entire trip... im there 11 days i actually called and asked if there was an issue they told me no its fully booked (partly bc of the eat to the beat & even those were all booked)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes i only used it for characters & my snack credits were always used for the most expensive snacks.... that was gonna be my question to you honestly ... if the Dining plan was such a plus for Disney why have they Not brought it back? & i think come September 9/12 will have returned.... as far as being busy im not there but ill say this i had issues booking some places and i couldnt get ONE garden grille reservation for my entire trip... im there 11 days i actually called and asked if there was an issue they told me no its fully booked (partly bc of the eat to the beat & even those were all booked)

Because the “value” to them is running you through the relatively cheap character buffets by the thousands.
It’s not serving you at brown derby or the Epcot menus…where the food is custom/better.

What I and others are also saying is if you went for a week and paid as you go…you end up coming ahead most if not Nearly all the time. We’ve studied this for along time now. Especially considering people eat less as the trip goes along.

So the advantages are pre-paying and probably overeating?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Because the “value” to them is running you through the relatively cheap character buffets by the thousands.
It’s not serving you at brown derby or the Epcot menus…where the food is custom/better.

Last time i got the dining plan was when apps, main course and dessert and gratuity were included. It was a steal. Of course you couldnt walk around any day you were at Disney because it was just to much food. I think they took the appetizers away first along with the tip. Didnt add up for us at that point. We have been saving a fortune since not doing it now like others have said. The best part of it all? We now can have snacks around the park and try a million different things that we couldn’t before because we needed someone with a wheel barrow to take us out of the restaurant 2-3 tomes a day.

 

[UNCgolf]

You almost never need a line-skip program at Universal. The lines move fast and they have adequate capacity to handle their crowds - and they increase capacity very aggressively, trying to add at least one attraction a year (and, of course, an entire new theme park and resort area in the future). Additionally, unlimited line skipping is free if you stay at one of their top hotels, and those hotels are EXTREMELY reasonably priced compared to WDW - their top line resort, with great theming and service, is comparable in price to Port Orleans (which is such a glaring indictment of Disney's absurd pricing). Overall, Universal absolutely doesn't do the "second-class tourist" thing nearly as much as Disney - in fact they really don't do it at all. Staying at Universal actually highlights just how unusual and insulting Disney's "first/ second/ third class tourist" thing is.

Basically, there are reasons not to visit Universal, but the line-skipping situation absolutely isn't one.

Yeah, there just aren't many attractions at Universal I actually like (I think the 90s attraction lineup at Universal Studios was significantly better than the line-up they have now; Revenge of the Mummy is the only "new" ride I actually really enjoy), which puts it off for me. Even with the Express Pass we only used it for a handful of attractions -- it was still really valuable, because we rode JP River Adventure multiple times. The two HP areas are phenomenal (really Diagon Alley much more than Hogsmeade), though, and it's worth visiting just to see them.

With that said, the value of staying at one of their "deluxe" hotels is off the charts compared to Disney. The Royal Pacific was a very nice hotel (rooms were nicer/in better condition than anywhere I've stayed at Disney, and the bed was much better), and as you mentioned, the costs were not much more than Port Orleans and much less than staying somewhere like the Polynesian.

Having the Express Pass included is a major bonus. To me, the Royal Pacific was a better value than Disney resorts even if Express Pass wasn't included, but it obviously makes things that much better.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, there just aren't many attractions at Universal I actually like (I think the 90s attraction lineup at Universal Studios was significantly better than the line-up they have now; Revenge of the Mummy is the only "new" ride I actually really enjoy), which puts it off for me. Even with the Express Pass we only used it for a handful of attractions -- it was still really valuable, because we rode JP River Adventure multiple times. The two HP areas are phenomenal (really Diagon Alley much more than Hogsmeade), though, and it's worth visiting just to see them.

With that said, the value of staying at one of their "deluxe" hotels is off the charts compared to Disney. The Royal Pacific was a very nice hotel (rooms were nicer/in better condition than anywhere I've stayed at Disney, and the bed was much better), and as you mentioned, the costs were not much more than Port Orleans and much less than staying somewhere like the Polynesian.

Having the Express Pass included is a major bonus. To me, the Royal Pacific was a better value than Disney resorts even if Express Pass wasn't included, but it obviously makes things that much better.

The ambience is better at Disney…cause the smart people built them…at there “deluxes”

But the value at universal’s 3 (soon to be 4 or more) is better by any tangible measure.