Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[jpinkc]

Wow just talked to a friend whose wife posted about Genie in a very Negative statement and you should see all the Disney Shills slamming her facebook and twitter. Just disgusting! She wasnt swearing or anything but damn some of the comments!

 

[jmp85]

I guess after this goes into full effect, those not purchasing the Genie app will have a $100 day of Swiss Family Treehouse, Enchanted Tiki Birds, Tom Sawyer's Island and the Peoplemover....

Your park tickets now allow you to sit and enjoy watching the other guests have fun.

 

[TXRob]

It's actually a great comparison bud. Where is there a birthright to go on a WDW vacation and go on every top ride?

That is a dumb comparison unless you were able to afford a Lambo last year.

 

[Raineman]

I feel like slamming my head against the wall with the number of times I've tried to explain today on social media why people may not like this system, and I thought it was simple. Before: Park admission=normal queue access to all attractions + FP queue access to limited attractions. Now: park admission=normal queue access to most attractions. Less value contained in the same park admission cost, extra cost required to get the same thing that the park admission alone got you before. Some people can't/do not want to shell out for that extra cost, which is why they don't like this. Seems pretty simple to understand. Not criticizing people who are willing to pay extra, just explaining why some people don't-and getting jumped all over for it.

 

[TimeTrip]

I have not heard you say the new system is better or if you even like it. I must you say you seem to have an AP bias. I am an out of state AP user and am no different than someone buying a 10 day ticket, I just went 4 times a year. If going more made me savvy I can't help that, but I was a newb too and never found anything you said to enter my enter my mind regarding Fp or AP's being able to game the system, exactly how? We all had the same darn rules, that makes zero sense.

I am done saying it, but I will say it one more time. This new scheme, no scheme, can ever make the line waits any shorter, nothing can other than more space and more rides/attractions increasing the People Per Hour(PPH)!

There is no way to change throughput as you say, the rides pump out their designed PPH(People Per Hour) that is all they can do on the best of days. Fp or genie can not optimize the PPH in any way. Once the park hits the Guest saturation nothing can change it. The lines were long this summer with no Genie or FP , you seem to be saying those same days with genie the standby would be shorter? Nope, they will be the same long lines, but now the genie people will have some paid relief. We used to all get 3 ride relief, Free. No savvy user required. We all had 3 FP it was clearly stated how to use it and to say it was anymore difficult to understand or could be gamed any more than this new system is, well crazy.

Fp and Genie is not to shorten lines, Disney never said that and no civil engineer would say that either(unless the park had less guests than saturation on that day). It is nothing more than some people getting shorter lines on some rides. Say whatever you want about the new system, like or hate it, it is not going to make the standby lines any shorter. In year from now we aren't going to be saying wow the lines are so much shorter thank heavens for genie it made the lines shorter. It simply is not what Genie is for. If Disney thought Genie would shorten lines they would be advertising that fact and they don't because their engineers and imagineers know better.

Lines will always be dependent on total PPH for each park across all attractions and how many guest are in the park on any given day. This is why going in off season is always the best option for people concerned about line times. Genie in the off season very well may work as you state, that's the best we can hope for. We are stuck Genie and I am sure I will go and test it, but unless that 7AM thing changes it can never be better than the old system for me. And unless I can reserve my attractions ahead of time and not having the option to just walk to any express line I want to(like at Universal) I almost certainly won't ever book a Disney hotel again. I just cannot drop 600 a night in hopes I get up at 7am and snag what I want.

One more thing, I believe this Genie will sell out every day. Why some think less people will go for it because it's paid is mind boggling to me. People will pay in droves, the lines will be long we will pay more and without the benefit of planning. I can't wait until they state Dinner reservation can only be made day of at 7am.

While alot of what you say is absolutely valid, I think part of this effort is to essentially "increase capacity for the Disney newbies that didn't know what they were doing". If the folks that were so used to riding everything they wanted with being on the bleeding edge of fp manipulation now just wind up riding *fewer* rides per visit, that effectively means others who didn't do that will get to ride more. My suspicion is there is some of that at play wrt guest satisfaction.

 

[TXRob]

I'll never understand people that are obviously envious of people that have the means to fly first class...buy nice cars...stay at nice hotels...and get angry that they can't have the same exact experience for a fraction of the price. People it's not difficult to understand.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

Onsite guests have this perk:

For their daily allotment of paying for two LL$s, they get to do so at 7 AM. Off-site guests have to wait until park opening.

I think I was getting confused with the terminology.

All the most popular rides will have a Lightening Lane option (i.e. old FP line). The difference is you won't NEED Genie+ for the BG-only rides (Rise, Rat). Those can be standalone Lightening Lane rides for purchase at $X.

So I can book a LL (old FP) through Genie+ (old MDE) for Peter Pan, but do I get to choose my return time? And I don't get to make another selection until I use that Peter Pan return time (old old FP)?

 

[drew81]

So how about shows and meet & greets? We know it's coming right.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

This is a $15 per day price increase. That's it.

This is pretty much it.

At $15 I suspect most people will suck it up and pay. At that point, everyone else is facing long standby lines and will feel obligated to pay as well.

We'll be right back where we started in terms of Fastpass vs Standby lines, and all paying more.

Maybe this will benefit the tourist, now that passholders have to pay per visit. That might be harder to swallow for people who visit every weekend. They can probably live with skipping some attractions.

 

[TXRob]

I see you are staying at Poly soon...Are you angry you can't go to the club lounge? Wait--you bought a room at the hotel? It should include all the amenities...right? OHHH you just pick and choose the parks...got it.

I feel like slamming my head against the wall with the number of times I've tried to explain today on social media why people may not like this system, and I thought it was simple. Before: Park admission=normal queue access to all attractions + FP queue access to limited attractions. Now: park admission=normal queue access to most attractions. Less value contained in the same park admission cost, extra cost required to get the same thing that the park admission alone got you before. Some people can't/do not want to shell out for that extra cost, which is why they don't like this. Seems pretty simple to understand. Not criticizing people who are willing to pay extra, just explaining why some people don't-and getting jumped all over for it.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

This is pretty much it.

At $15 I suspect most people will suck it up and pay. At that point, everyone else is facing long standby lines and will feel obligated to pay as well.

We'll be right back where we started in terms of Fastpass vs Standby lines, and all paying more.

Maybe this will benefit the tourist, now that passholders have to pay per visit. That might be harder to swallow for people who visit every weekend. They can probably live with skipping some attractions.

If most people pay, won't that make the standby shorter, since everyone will be in the Lightning Lane (stupidest name ever)?

 

[mightynine]

I'll never understand people that are obviously envious of people that have the means to fly first class...buy nice cars...stay at nice hotels...and get angry that they can't have the same exact experience for a fraction of the price. People it's not difficult to understand.

Oh, I’ve never been envious of people who think because they spend more they’re worth more.

 

[SpectroPhoenix]

Out of curiosity, what did MaxPass do to the standby lines at Disneyland?

There's always been the ongoing debate whether or not FastPass helped or hurt the standby lines. COVID removed FastPass giving us a better idea of how that would look, albeit with less than full capacity at the parks. With Lightning Lanes/Genie+, it's somewhat of a hybrid where, theoretically, significantly less people will be filling in the old FastPass lines to save $$$ every day.

Assuming Disney's algorithms are smart and they factor in variables to ensure distributed ride reservations are balanced, should the standby lines not be shorter? Is there not a chance that we will all finally get a "virtually" FastPass-less Disney experience? Obviously that all depends on how many people are willing to spend on this, but who knows, maybe?

 

[JusticeDisney]

I hope all of the people who are swearing that they are done with WDW stick to what they are saying. That will just make it that much easier for the rest of us to utilize this new service and get on the major attractions without much waiting.

 

[Waters Back Side]

If most people pay, won't that make the standby shorter, since everyone will be in the Lightning Lane (stupidest name ever)?

It depends on how they spread out the return times and availability. They might have room for a lot of people to get a LP for a ride at a certain time but limit it on the back end (in which we will not know but eventually figure out). I could try to get a Lightning Pass for Pirates at 11 AM and the earliest time is for 1 PM. But at 11 AM they have the room for me but are trying to spread out the availability. Distribute the ride reservations to balance them out. We do not know. That's how they can keep the Lightning Lines short and the Standby lines somewhat shorter.

 

[arich35]

This is pretty much it.

At $15 I suspect most people will suck it up and pay. At that point, everyone else is facing long standby lines and will feel obligated to pay as well.

We'll be right back where we started in terms of Fastpass vs Standby lines, and all paying more.

Maybe this will benefit the tourist, now that passholders have to pay per visit. That might be harder to swallow for people who visit every weekend. They can probably live with skipping some attractions.

They have to cap it somewhere. What is going to suck is if the cap is high and so many people buy it and people are stuck with a pass to Tea Cups and Dumbo and can't get anything else or can't get it until 7 PM

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Out of curiosity, what did MaxPass do to the standby lines at Disneyland?

There's always been the ongoing debate whether or not FastPass helped or hurt the standby lines. COVID removed FastPass giving us a better idea of how that would look, albeit with less than full capacity at the parks. With Lightning Lanes/Genie+, it's somewhat of a hybrid where, theoretically, significantly less people will be filling in the old FastPass lines to save $$$ every day.

Assuming Disney's algorithms are smart and they factor in variables to ensure distributed ride reservations are balanced, should the standby lines not be shorter? Is there not a chance that we will all finally get a "virtually" FastPass-less Disney experience? Obviously that all depends on how many people are willing to spend on this, but who knows, maybe?

The aggregate benefit of FastPass was that it pushed people towards attractions that might otherwise run partially empty. If Genie is effective in that regard, it should help overall wait times. This should be true of Genie's "smart itinerary" feature, regardless of G+/LL.

 

[tomast]

Now if the list of high demand attractions is longer than the $15 list then it's a problem.

No word on standby cap which I hope doesn't happen.

and if its lower than 15 then its the normal que. There is no benefit from this dessision its only a hidden mark up of the ticket entrance.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It depends on how they spread out the return times and availability. They might have room for a lot of people to get a LP for a ride at a certain time but limit it on the back end (in which we will not know but eventually figure out). I could try to get a Lightning Pass for Pirates at 11 AM and the earliest time is for 1 PM. But at 11 AM they have the room for me but are trying to spread out the availability. Distribute the ride reservations to balance them out. We do not know. That's how they can keep the Lightning Lines short and the Standby lines somewhat shorter.

They will have to severely limit the number that people can get one to justify a "lightning lane" designation. I don't see anyway they can give out as many of these as they used to with FP+.

 

[DisneyDodo]

That is incorrect - How and when guests book is just as important as how much there is at any time.



Sorry - this is simply wrong on so many levels. For all the same reasons guests didn't use FP equally all the time.

What I am most interested in is seeing how they manage the Lightning Lane returns. Expectations and tolerances there will play a huge role in how much availability they can open up.

I said "on a macro level." Certain decisions may help some people here and hurt others there, but overall, if the same capacity is divided amongst the same number of guests, you're not going to be able to drastically improve the overall experience by telling guests when the capacity can be booked.

If you temporarily withhold some reservations, they will be available later than they would have, but you also cause someone who would've booked one of those late ones to book an earlier one for a different attraction instead, which could have gone to someone else. Essentially, instead of having people choose between riding more less-popular rides or fewer more-popular ones, everyone will ride an average number of rides of average popularity. That outcome is neither inherently better nor worse, just different.