Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

msha88

Member
You sometimes have that with Genie+ as well. No system is perfect. The reason I love Universal's system is the simplicity of it. Personally it's my family's biggest gripe with Disney. A theme park vacation shouldn't require this much work to enjoy. We can deal with reservations for dinner as most places you vacation it's needed. As far as the parks themselves there is no reason it's need to be this complex to visit.

To add to that, the quote @disneyglimpses posted yesterday on why they do all these things blows my mind and shows how out to lunch they are in regards to park operations.

Their view of a perfect world is the same number of people at the parks all day every day with the same ratio of vacationers to locals. This is their attempt to achieve that.

IMO they have the perfect solution at DLP. Premier Access Ultimate in conjunction with Premier Access One. Ultimate being the ideal, but for those who can't afford it or choose not to spend the extra cash, Access One provides a good alternative.
I was at Disneyland Paris on a one park one day ticket yesterday, haven’t been for three years and first time using Premier Access. The park was busy as expected for a hot Sunday in summer vacation but it wasn't overly crowded. So it felt like there were a lot of people in the park, especially after 11 am, but waits weren’t too long. There also weren‘t that many people entering at 9.30 but resort guests already had access to the parks through early entry.

Once inside the park at just after 9.30 (it had been open to resort guests for an hour) we booked Big Thunder Mountain on Premier Access, slots were still available for 9.30 - 10.30 am. We paid €18 each. We actually rope dropped it (the ride was late opening and we were on the second train, then went to do Indiana Jones and Pinocchio and then came back to use our pass at 10.30.) When we entered the Premier Access entrance we didn’t see anyone returning with a reservation, we only saw a handful of people using the system throughout the day, and where we joined the line was just before the slope down to loading so only waited a couple of minutes. When we booked our reservation, I’m pretty sure all the other rides using Premier Access in the park (there are only a handful) also had an immediate return time available.

Most waits in the park were between 15 and 45 minutes throughout the day although Thunder Mountain did get up to about 70 iirc. I was with my 16 year old who loves WDW but she commented how nice it was to just chill out and choose what to ride next as the lines weren’t prohibitive and we weren’t having to follow booked reservations. In some ways it felt like when we go to Universal with Express Pass (although we generally wait less time at Uni than we did at DLP.) It was relaxing compared to our most recent experience at WDW in December. We didn’t wait longer than 15 minutes for anything yesterday so I think wait times were slightly overstated, but we did do most of our rides before about 2.30 pm.

At about 2 pm we checked Premier Access return times again, and again most rides had a return time beginning about 30 minutes later. We were able to book BTM (again!) for 3.05 - 4.05 pm. You’re able to buy three rides on each attraction. The furthest out retun time was 4.05 - 5.05 pm for Crush’s Coaster which I was surprised about because it‘s a low capacity attraction and one that has a big rush at rope drop because of how high waits get really quickly. So maybe in Paris people still don’t want to pay to avoid that wait. I must admit we didn’t check the wait time as we didn’t have access to Studios park but I’d assume it was at least 45+.

It felt to me that because very few people were using Premier Access, standby waits were reasonable in Disneyland Parc and it also feels like a park with decent capacity. In fact the longest waits were to meet Mickey Mouse (around 70 minutes during the peak of the day) and the princesses (around 70 - 120 minutes throughout the day) although I wonder if their character casting is an issue and they weren’t running at usual capacity. It’s also a beautiful park with lots to explore (Adventure Isle caves and rope bridge, Alice’s maze etc) and the walkways are wide with multiple paths between lands so it doesn’t get too bottlenecked.

It was lovely to experience a day like this in a castle park, we did ten rides (including the two Premier Access bookings at BTM) in seven hours with several breaks for food and snacks, and we weren’t rushing around or checking our phones, we were just wandering around taking in a really beautiful and well maintained park. My daughter also met Minnie with a five or ten minute wait.

Ten years ago this park felt in pretty bad shape and in need of quite a bit of visual maintenance but it felt to me like it‘s had a complete 180. I know it received a lot of love in terms of refurbishment for the 25th five years ago and that seems to have continued. I don’t know whether to feel hopeful that things could change at WDW (although a different beast and obviously under new management) or depressed that my beloved WDW may never be as relaxing and beautiful and fun again.

We‘re visiting WDW next month (second time since introduction of Genie+) and it may be we stick with DLP (closer, we’re in the UK) and try DLR, with our Florida trips sticking to just Uni for a while if we come away feeling dissatisfied like we did in December because of the stress of Genie+, constant planning, park hopping rules and the poor upkeep of the parks and rides etc.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Outside of G+, DL absolutely blows MK out of the water. If we are just looking at G+ capacity... I'm pretty sure MK actually has more G+ ride capacity than Disneyland

Both parks have: Thunder, Splash, Space, buzz, HM, small world, speedway

On top of that MK also has G+ on: Jungle cruise, Pan, FoF, Pirates, Pooh, Mermaid, Dumbo, Barnstormer, Princess meeting, Meet Mickey, Mad Tea party, Aladdin, and Monsters Inc.

compared to DL: Indiana Jones, Matterhorn, MFSR, Roger Rabbit, and Star tours.

Also please explain to me how capacity differences would make G+ only on entering a park an issue?
Usage of Genie+ is far more guest friendly in Disneyland than in Disney World. This is likely due to the number of locals that visit the parks and don't use it.
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
It's because of the crazy advantage resort guests used to have. 1/3 of guests are resort guests. Believe it or not, a significant portion of those guests did not make very many advance FP+ selections. Which means, if you wanted to, as a resort guest you could book 3 per day for your entire trip with little friction. By the time the day of visit arrived, inventory was not great. Not as bad as Genie+ but that's where the "getting my money's worth" stuff comes into play.

There's only so much inventory.

Another factor here: there isn't as much to do right now as there was during the FP+ era. A lot of stuff has reopened but there are still a lot of time eating activities closed which puts more stress on Genie+.

All of that being said, Genie+ availability right now vs 3 months ago is day and night, in my experience. I expect August/September will be much closer to the expected experience. The negative sentiment around Genie+ is also forcing sales down a bit which is helping too.

My biggest issue with Genie+ is it's a one and done. Once you've used the Genie+ on say BTMRR, you cannot get another pass for BTMRR. If I was able to get multiple passes like you could with FP+, I wouldn't care as much, but the one pass per ride thing is really what burns me about the new system.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
My biggest issue with Genie+ is it's a one and done. Once you've used the Genie+ on say BTMRR, you cannot get another pass for BTMRR. If I was able to get multiple passes like you could with FP+, I wouldn't care as much, but the one pass per ride thing is really what burns me about the new system.

It's especially bad for people (like me) who aren't interested in a number of attractions. I'd much rather ride certain attractions multiple times than ride everything once, and it makes Genie+ a hard sell. If I can get line skips for 4 rides, but they're all rides I don't care about... what's the point?

I understand why they don't allow re-rides, though. They simply don't have the capacity for it without significantly limiting Genie+ purchases.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
It's especially bad for people (like me) who aren't interested in a number of attractions. I'd much rather ride certain attractions multiple times than ride everything once, and it makes Genie+ a hard sell. If I can get line skips for 4 rides, but they're all rides I don't care about... what's the point?

I understand why they don't allow re-rides, though. They simply don't have the capacity for it without significantly limiting Genie+ purchases.
Kinda crazy how bad availability can get without re-rides.
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Yeah, I think even if they allowed re-rides very few people would actually get one, and almost certainly not more than one.

Unless it was for something with very low demand, but in that case you could just wait in the short standby line.

Was FP+ that underutilized? I mean, we often got two or three FP+ passes for marquee attractions in MK when we would go after we used our three pre-reserved FP’s.
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I’m still confused how it’s worse now than when we had FP+ that was free and likely used by more

For us, it’s the lack of the ability to use G+ on multiple rides multiple times. We could regularly pick up multiple FP+ passes for headliners after burning our initial three. With G+ being only able to use it once per ride is a major downgrade.

I don’t understand how there isn’t enough capacity to allow G+ to be used multiple times on the same ride. Surely less people use G+ than used FP+?
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Was FP+ that underutilized? I mean, we often got two or three FP+ passes for marquee attractions in MK when we would go after we used our three pre-reserved FP’s.

I’m still confused how it’s worse now than when we had FP+ that was free and likely used by more

I'm assuming the number of Genie+ passes available is less than it was for FP+. They likely expected less usage and so fewer slots were needed.

There are also fewer options for Genie+ than there were for FP+, although that's starting to change with the addition of meet and greets etc.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
I'm assuming the number of Genie+ passes available is less than it was for FP+. They likely expected less usage and so fewer slots were needed.

There are also fewer options for Genie+ than there were for FP+, although that's starting to change with the addition of meet and greets etc.
We've discussed the macro reasons at length but in reality I think the major difference is that you had 60 days worth of time to spread out reservations and I think many of those people who selected 3 didn't attempt to make any more (guessing, I don't actually know any numbers here).

With Genie+ it's just a complete on demand all day circus with everyone smashing the servers all at once fighting over availability.
 

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
We've discussed the macro reasons at length but in reality I think the major difference is that you had 60 days worth of time to spread out reservations and I think many of those people who selected 3 didn't attempt to make any more (guessing, I don't actually know any numbers here).

With Genie+ it's just a complete on demand all day circus with everyone smashing the servers all at once fighting over availability.
A circus might be the best explanation of this I have seen haha
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
We've discussed the macro reasons at length but in reality I think the major difference is that you had 60 days worth of time to spread out reservations and I think many of those people who selected 3 didn't attempt to make any more (guessing, I don't actually know any numbers here).

With Genie+ it's just a complete on demand all day circus with everyone smashing the servers all at once fighting over availability.
Yeah, I think the big thing is people are paying for this and want to get their money worth so are much more active is maximizing their usage of it than for the free service which many people just took what they could get and moved on (obviously some power users of FP+, but percentage of the total that are power users will be much higher with a paid system)
 

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
I also feel like they are advertising G+ a lot more than FP+ was advertised at the end of it's life. I don't know the numbers, but the first time I went to WDW with my now wife's family, I blew their mind when we went through the FP+ lane. Her dad immediately came to me after with a worried look on his face and asked how much extra he paid to skip the line. FYI his park experience before WDW was a local cedar fair park where the fastlane is twice the price of the ticket.

Open the MDE app right now. The top of the page says hello, below it takes about Genie, below that Genie+. I know fastpass wasn't a secret, but was it the 3rd thing listed on the app before?
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
I also feel like they are advertising G+ a lot more than FP+ was advertised at the end of it's life. I don't know the numbers, but the first time I went to WDW with my now wife's family, I blew their mind when we went through the FP+ lane. Her dad immediately came to me after with a worried look on his face and asked how much extra he paid to skip the line. FYI his park experience before WDW was a local cedar fair park where the fastlane is twice the price of the ticket.

Open the MDE app right now. The top of the page says hello, below it takes about Genie, below that Genie+. I know fastpass wasn't a secret, but was it the 3rd thing listed on the app before?
What I remember was very little being said about Fp+. I still can think of many people in the parks asking how people are going in this orher lane and getting on quicker. My wife is a Disney travel agent up north and I would venture to guess that 60-70% of her clients, first time visitors, had no idea what it was when she was booking their trips. I would say that its reversed now with most clients knowing about g+ because of all the ads.. where its placed on the app.. and conplaints on FB about it from what they have read.
IMO, the paid service,G+ will get pushed hard by Disney where in the free service,FP barely was talked about. All my opinion of course from what i hear and have read.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Saw a post today from someone at the parks and there has been changes. One being that return times didn't show up til 7:30 and when you select a return time you no longer see what else is available.
 
Also (at least in my memory) FP+ was advertised as 3 passes. G+ is advertised much more as just skip lines all day long...even though they've had to add the "expect only 2 or 3" message after the mass frustration. Add that to the above points about getting what you paid for. PLUS (I still feel people miss this point) FP+ had tiers. I also don't know the numbers but I'd wager at least 50% (I suspect much higher) of the guests that used FP+ only booked their three, only one was a tier 1, and never booked another pass for the day. Now everyone picks whatever they want at 7am and of course everyone is picking the most popular rides. Everyone is on the same schedule all trying to make selections at the same time.

Before:
60 days to pick your 3 rides, only 1 top tier. Sure, the experts know the tricks and get their top choice at their preferred time. But most can get one of the top tier rides. People get their 3 free fast passes and plan around them.

After:
Everyone who purchased genie+ races (on their phone) to get the same top rides at 7am. Everyone races to get the 2nd top ride at 11am. Repeat at 1pm. Now people are mad because they got Slinky Dog and Tower of Terror, but can't get Millennium Falcon and Rock'n'Rollercoaster. But the majority weren't getting more than one of them with FP+. The experts on this board were, but precisely because most people weren't.
 
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Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
Aside from the UI/design complaints, I've spent a good amount of time thinking about this and I think I landed on what I'd like to see:

- Price increase to $25 with strict inventory limits
- Resort guests can purchase at 9PM the night before and select one attraction at any time slot
- When the park opens, all guests (including resort guests who pre-selected an attraction the night before) can select one attraction at a time, every two hours or after using a LL selection (current procedure)

This would keep the company's profit margins healthy, ensure good inventory for guests and give resort guests a guaranteed extra LL selection.

Nothing will ever be as good for resort guests as free FP+. So this isn't really what I want, this is what I want that's realistic under the circumstances.
 

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