Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[UNCgolf]

If an attraction is only handling 300 guests per hour due to low demand and they replace it with an attraction that can handle 1800 guests per hour in high demand (or, in the case of guardians, 2500) that's a huge win capacity wise for the park. Old stale attractions can't stay around forever - their cost ends up exceeding their value. Of the ones mentioned above, TSL replacing the shell of the backlot tour and Galaxy's Edge replacing LMA are obvious wins. As is Guardians replacing Energy. The only one I would quibble with is MMRR replacing GMR. That never should have happened as GMR was still popular. A better solution for that park would have been an updating of GMR and putting in MMRR somewhere else as a new build.

You're acting as though the 1800 per hour attraction can't exist without the 300 per hour attraction closing, which is obviously not true -- Disney has to run out of expansion space before that makes any sense from a guest perspective. Doubly so since guests aren't interested in every attraction, but every guest needs attractions that interest them.

I never said attractions should stay around forever. But with the space they have, and the limited attraction capacity in every park but the MK, replacing attractions is short-sighted at best and moronic at worst. Ellen and TSL are the two exceptions -- Ellen because the ride content was so outdated it had to be overhauled, and TSL because the backlot tour no longer made any sense and actually did need to be replaced. Unfortunately, as discussed elsewhere, Disney bungled TSL and built what is one of the most poorly designed lands Disney has ever built anywhere. They took a space that could easily have 4 or 5 attractions along with multiple shops and dining options and put almost nothing there.

As for GE replacing LMA -- it's an obvious loss. GE could have gone elsewhere and kept that show, which DHS desperately needs for capacity. It has the least to do of any Disney park even after all their construction. Even if they did want to close/replace LMA, it could have continued to run while they built GE elsewhere. Intentional or not, it shows a lack of interest in the overall guest experience.

TL;DR: Disney has the space for both, so they should have both unless something has to close for other reasons.

 

[Purduevian]

Recently went to DL for the first time and had G+ there. Thought it might be an interesting comparison to my 1 day in February at MK.

LL	Magic Kingdom (2/26/22)	DLR1 (6/25/22)	DLR2 (6/26/22)
1	Splash Mountain (Turned into ME) [9:25am] Later used on Big Thunder at night	Soarin (turned into a ME)[8:20] Later used on Grizzly River run	Hyperspace Mountain (turned into a ME) [9:15am]
2	Space Mountain [10:50am]	Guardians of the Galaxy [10:15am]	Buzz Lightyear [10:30am]
3	Pooh [11:55]	Monsters inc [10:35am]	Splash Mountain [2:45pm]
4	Mad Tea Party [12:00]	Incredicoaster [12:25am]	Big Thunder [1:25pm]
5	Haunted Mansion [3:30]	Indiana Jones [4:50pm]	Indy (turned into a ME, used on hyperspace) [3:15pm]
6	Peter Pan [4:30]	Star Tours [3:20pm]	Guardians of the Galaxy[4:50pm]
7	Mermaid [5:45]	Haunted Mansion [4:45pm]	Soarin [6:20pm]
8	Buzz [6:20]	Big Thunder [5:45pm]	We left the park after Soarin, had to drive back to LAX for an early flight thenext day
9	Jungle Cruise [8pm] (got another ME from ride going down while on it)	Small world [6:15pm]
10	Pirates [9:30pm]	Smugglers Run [7:15pm]
11		Had a hyperspace mountain for 10:30pm but it broke down and we were exhausted
Step Count	25,283	28,670	24,710

The system was for sure easier to use at DLR. I spent less time on my phone, and still got about the same amount of LLs each day. Also nothing there sells out super quick, but rides like Indy, Space, and Guardians do push out a lot faster than others.
The refresh or Fiddle Faddle also does work at DLR, but the opportunities are actually far fewer than at WDW. I spend a lot of time trying to get hyperspace the first day and Indy, Guardians, and Soarin the second day at good times.

Finally, the morning (~first 2 hours) strategy are really really different on each coast. At WDW you have to book a popular ride and take whatever time you get. At DLR I was actually trying to book rides that were currently closed hoping for a ME pass. You don't want to book your LL too early at DL because all the lines are short and you can't re-ride with a LL.

 

[Stevie Amsterdam]

At DLR I was actually trying to book rides that were currently closed hoping for a ME pass.

What is an ME pass?

 

[pdude81]

What is an ME pass?

Multiple Experiences

 

[Purduevian]

What is an ME pass?

Multiple Experiences

Exactly. Basically on my first day before the park opened I booked Goofy's sky school for right at 8am. Once I got in line at radiator springs I opened the app and saw that Goofy's did open, but Soarin did not. I quickly canceled the Goofy LL and booked an 8:20am Soarin.
At 8:20am I got a notification that Soarin was closed and it gave me a multiple experience pass which I could use at any time on any ride except TSMM, Guardians, Webslingers, Radiator Springs, Hyperspace mountain, RotR, and Indiana Jones (I think). I later used it to skip an 85 minute wait at Grizzly River Run around 1pm.

Once I got the pass I actually booked an 8:45am Soarin, hoping the ride would remain closed. Unfortunately for me, Soarin opened at 8:40am. I canceled that pass and that's when I booked the Guardian's of the galaxy pass for 10:15am.

I posted this strategy on Reddit and someone said they found a time when Small world was closed and actively had LL for 5 minutes out constantly. They said in 20 minutes every member of their party had 4 multiple experience passes.

One more thing to note, multiple experience passes are tiered at both WDW and DLR so you can't "upgrade" too much. If you have a ride breakdown from one tier, your ME does not work on a ride in a better tier. I think the tiers are something like:

Park	Magic Kingdom	Epcot	DHS	AK	DL	CA
S tier	7 Dwarf	GotG	RotR	FOP	RotR	Web, RsR
A tier	Space, Pan, Jungle	Frozen, Remy, maybe TT?	Slinky, ToT, maybe MFSR?	Navi and Everest	Indy, Space	Guardians, TSMM

 

[granfiesta]

I have to echo the ease of use of G+ at Disneyland. We went around Memorial Day weekend for 5 days, and G+ worked fantastically! My family and I have tried to use G+ at MK twice and been sorely disappointed both times. Not so for Disneyland, where it was well worth the purchase price.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You're acting as though the 1800 per hour attraction can't exist without the 300 per hour attraction closing, which is obviously not true -- Disney has to run out of expansion space before that makes any sense from a guest perspective. Doubly so since guests aren't interested in every attraction, but every guest needs attractions that interest them.

I never said attractions should stay around forever. But with the space they have, and the limited attraction capacity in every park but the MK, replacing attractions is short-sighted at best and moronic at worst. Ellen and TSL are the two exceptions -- Ellen because the ride content was so outdated it had to be overhauled, and TSL because the backlot tour no longer made any sense and actually did need to be replaced. Unfortunately, as discussed elsewhere, Disney bungled TSL and built what is one of the most poorly designed lands Disney has ever built anywhere. They took a space that could easily have 4 or 5 attractions along with multiple shops and dining options and put almost nothing there.

As for GE replacing LMA -- it's an obvious loss. GE could have gone elsewhere and kept that show, which DHS desperately needs for capacity. It has the least to do of any Disney park even after all their construction. Even if they did want to close/replace LMA, it could have continued to run while they built GE elsewhere. Intentional or not, it shows a lack of interest in the overall guest experience.

TL;DR: Disney has the space for both, so they should have both unless something has to close for other reasons.

There are some attractions that should have been and should be replaced. There are others that they have replaced that they didn't need to.

Most recently, Great Movie Ride / Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway was shown to be a poor choice. Even if they didn't do an update to GMR, the added capacity of that ride would help DHS tremendously.

I would argue that at EPCOT, replacements are needed more than additions. There is so much mediocrity in EPCOT right now that needs to be addressed. Bringing Imagination and Seas up to true D/E tickets would improve that park tremendously. That park does not currently have a capacity issue.

 

[UNCgolf]

There are some attractions that should have been and should be replaced. There are others that they have replaced that they didn't need to.

Most recently, Great Movie Ride / Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway was shown to be a poor choice. Even if they didn't do an update to GMR, the added capacity of that ride would help DHS tremendously.

I would argue that at EPCOT, replacements are needed more than additions. There is so much mediocrity in EPCOT right now that needs to be addressed. Bringing Imagination and Seas up to true D/E tickets would improve that park tremendously. That park does not currently have a capacity issue.

I agree that EPCOT doesn't have a serious capacity issue, but a major part of the reason it's in bad shape is that the previous replacements over the past 25 years were generally shorter, lower capacity, and lower quality than what they replaced.

I also agree that it needs more, though -- Imagination obviously needs to be replaced (fixed, really), and Ellen also needed a complete overhaul. I don't think Guardians was the right move there in multiple ways, but that's beside the point. It's certainly doing more than Ellen was doing in recent years.

Shutting down the backlot at DHS was understandable because it no longer made any sense, but the other replacements were all bad decisions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I will still argue MORE people used FP+ than are using Genie and yet this was NEVER an issue & when i say more i also mean more rides were Booked w FP than are being booked w Genie.... I truly wish someone on the inside could provide this info because again i cant grasp how FP altho not perfect was a superior product than genie is which is absolutely abysmal. Crazy part is this system/cash flow is generating basically enough money annually to build new rides annually with little to No impact and only generate more cash and also gives them an incentive to build quickly & there is NO way they would ever get to a point where the parks are built sufficient enough where people opt out of paying for a skip the line system thats how underbuilt the parks are right now....

Crappy supply/diminished return was an issue with fastpass+ The morning it was implemented and every day after

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I will still argue MORE people used FP+ than are using Genie and yet this was NEVER an issue & when i say more i also mean more rides were Booked w FP than are being booked w Genie.... I truly wish someone on the inside could provide this info because again i cant grasp how FP altho not perfect was a superior product than genie is which is absolutely abysmal. Crazy part is this system/cash flow is generating basically enough money annually to build new rides annually with little to No impact and only generate more cash and also gives them an incentive to build quickly & there is NO way they would ever get to a point where the parks are built sufficient enough where people opt out of paying for a skip the line system thats how underbuilt the parks are right now....

The number of people using it has nothing to do with the issue. Once you charge for something, guest behavior changes drastically.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Old stale attractions can't stay around forever -

Why not? If people are enjoying them, they should be updated and enjoyed for decades to come. Look at all the classics at Disneyland that people still love!

They took a space that could easily have 4 or 5 attractions along with multiple shops and dining options and put almost nothing there.

That’s what I say about Star Wars land, and New Fantasylans as well.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It appears the pre-sales in tickets is helping somewhat. For a Saturday at the MK, this is much better:

 

[MissingDisney]

Exactly. Basically on my first day before the park opened I booked Goofy's sky school for right at 8am. Once I got in line at radiator springs I opened the app and saw that Goofy's did open, but Soarin did not. I quickly canceled the Goofy LL and booked an 8:20am Soarin.
At 8:20am I got a notification that Soarin was closed and it gave me a multiple experience pass which I could use at any time on any ride except TSMM, Guardians, Webslingers, Radiator Springs, Hyperspace mountain, RotR, and Indiana Jones (I think). I later used it to skip an 85 minute wait at Grizzly River Run around 1pm.

Once I got the pass I actually booked an 8:45am Soarin, hoping the ride would remain closed. Unfortunately for me, Soarin opened at 8:40am. I canceled that pass and that's when I booked the Guardian's of the galaxy pass for 10:15am.

I posted this strategy on Reddit and someone said they found a time when Small world was closed and actively had LL for 5 minutes out constantly. They said in 20 minutes every member of their party had 4 multiple experience passes.

One more thing to note, multiple experience passes are tiered at both WDW and DLR so you can't "upgrade" too much. If you have a ride breakdown from one tier, your ME does not work on a ride in a better tier. I think the tiers are something like:

Park	Magic Kingdom	Epcot	DHS	AK	DL	CA
S tier	7 Dwarf	GotG	RotR	FOP	RotR	Web, RsR
A tier	Space, Pan, Jungle	Frozen, Remy, maybe TT?	Slinky, ToT, maybe MFSR?	Navi and Everest	Indy, Space	Guardians, TSMM

Does this ME twist work at WDW?

 

[Purduevian]

Does this ME twist work at WDW?

Yes, but it is much harder to pull off as return times are usually too far out to make it work. Last time I was there I booked a 9:35am Splash mountain right at 7am. Around park open my splash mountain pass turned into a ME pass.

However, while splash was down for a few hours, I didn't book another splash mountain because return times were already into the afternoon.

It works at WDW but LL's just go so fast it's not really a practical strategy.

Looking at today 7/9 @11:45am rides that are currently down and their return times:

Ride	Return time
Test Track	6:30PM
Rise of the Resistance	Sold out

Compare that to DLR at 7/9 @8:45am right now

Monsters inc

9:45am

You can take a "bet" that monsters inc won't come up for the next hour.

 

[MissingDisney]

Yes, but it is much harder to pull off as return times are usually too far out to make it work. Last time I was there I booked a 9:35am Splash mountain right at 7am. Around park open my splash mountain pass turned into a ME pass.

However, while splash was down for a few hours, I didn't book another splash mountain because return times were already into the afternoon.

It works at WDW but LL's just go so fast it's not really a practical strategy.

Looking at today 7/9 @11:45am rides that are currently down and their return times:

Ride	Return time
Test Track	6:30PM
Rise of the Resistance	Sold out

Compare that to DLR at 7/9 @8:45am right now

Monsters inc

9:45am

You can take a "bet" that monsters inc won't come up for the next hour.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[crazy4disney]

The number of people using it has nothing to do with the issue. Once you charge for something, guest behavior changes drastically.

You keep saying this & altho i dont technically disagree with you it still doesnt add up. People claim some quoting you that 50% of people used FP yet Genie is below that & with Genie getting 3 worthy skips at optimal & preferred times is impossible. So again nothing adds up to me.

 

[crazy4disney]

Crappy supply/diminished return was an issue with fastpass+ The morning it was implemented and every day after

Thats your opinion & i have mine where Fp+ was an amazing product that worked great for resort guests & if you really took a little effort worked amazing for those willing.

 

[Chi84]

Thats your opinion & i have mine where Fp+ was an amazing product that worked great for resort guests & if you really took a little effort worked amazing for those willing.

I agree. The current system of park reservations/Genie+/ILLs/limited park hopping that replaced it is inflexible garbage. And we get to pay for it or stand in ridiculously long lines all day.

 

[Jrb1979]

You keep saying this & altho i dont technically disagree with you it still doesnt add up. People claim some quoting you that 50% of people used FP yet Genie is below that & with Genie getting 3 worthy skips at optimal & preferred times is impossible. So again nothing adds up to me.

It all goes back to the amount of people using it each day. While there was more people using FP+ they all weren't booking their rides at the same time each day.

For example say 5000 people are using Genie+ each day. Those 5000 are competing for the same rides all at once. It makes it difficult to get optimal times. Under FP+ a majority of those 5000 people already had FPs booked so they all aren't competing for the same rides all at once.

 

[crazy4disney]

I agree. The current system of park reservations/Genie+/ILLs/limited park hopping that replaced it is inflexible garbage. And we get to pay for it or stand in ridiculously long lines all day.

Its like certain people are now here solely to defend Disney and try to constantly knock FP any chance the get. I truly dont see why or how. If lines magically disappearedand a better product was introduced i would 100% admit i was wrong. But it hasnt and before any suggest a Uni type system that is far from a similar system and forcing people to pay 150-200pp per day for a trip thats gonna be a week long is not a true comparison.