Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Chip Chipperson]

I read that, but by their reported costs, seems they stayed in a deluxe and during a high priced ticket time. Questionable if they're the average family or not.

Great point. $945/night isn't a value or moderate resort rate - and the author made no effort to explain that there are tiered levels to their hotels. And the line about how they "got rid of parking lot trams" doesn't mention the announced plans to bring them back or what role the pandemic played in shutting them down in the first place (both in terms of social distancing and staffing issues). Then there's the "$3,500 for multi-day tickets" for a family of 6. That's $583.33/person and no mention of how many days the tickets were valid or if it included Park Hoppers. The entire article reads as either lazy journalism or intentional misrepresentation of facts, which hurts their argument if they really are concerned about people being priced out because anyone who understands the details that were omitted would likely view this as a hit piece and dismiss it rather than suddenly being outraged about the prices at WDW. But I don't think that's the target audience for the article, anyway. Call it a hunch.

 

[Jeff4272]

Great point. $945/night isn't a value or moderate resort rate - and the author made no effort to explain that there are tiered levels to their hotels. And the line about how they "got rid of parking lot trams" doesn't mention the announced plans to bring them back or what role the pandemic played in shutting them down in the first place (both in terms of social distancing and staffing issues). Then there's the "$3,500 for multi-day tickets" for a family of 6. That's $583.33/person and no mention of how many days the tickets were valid or if it included Park Hoppers. The entire article reads as either lazy journalism or intentional misrepresentation of facts, which hurts their argument if they really are concerned about people being priced out because anyone who understands the details that were omitted would likely view this as a hit piece and dismiss it rather than suddenly being outraged about the prices at WDW. But I don't think that's the target audience for the article, anyway. Call it a hunch.

Or its all completely true and WDW is now a rip off?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Or its all completely true and WDW is now a rip off?

It may be a rip-off to some people. You seem to think it is, so that immediately brings the % of customers, potential customers, or former customers who think that way to more than 0%. That's true of any large company to some extent. That doesn't mean that I agree with all of Disney's changes (I'm on record as saying here that I don't like losing DME or FP+ being removed for G+), but "rip-off" is purely subjective in this case (even if I dislike G+, there's a difference between "not worth the money" and "rip-off"). However, it's a gigantic misrepresentation to pain WDW as a place where you need to shell out $10k or more for a family of 4-5 people. The $945/night room is a deluxe room (and likely one of the nicest rooms on property you can get paying cash). You can sleep 4-5 people in a Value or Moderate resort for a fraction of that cost. The complaint about the cost of park tickets lacks any relevant information (# of days? Park Hopper? What does a comparable ticket cost at a competitor like Universal?). It all reeks of an article written with the sole intention of convincing readers not to visit WDW rather than an objective article pointing out both complaints and the alternatives with relevant details to let people make an informed decision. And its a pattern of behavior of recent articles attacking the company for things that have nothing to do with the financial performance of the company, which is what Fox Business is supposed to be about. Fox has a Travel section of their Fox News site that would be a more appropriate home for that article (although that still wouldn't change the severe bias of the article itself).

 

[Jeff4272]

It may be a rip-off to some people. You seem to think it is, so that immediately brings the % of customers, potential customers, or former customers who think that way to more than 0%. That's true of any large company to some extent. That doesn't mean that I agree with all of Disney's changes (I'm on record as saying here that I don't like losing DME or FP+ being removed for G+), but "rip-off" is purely subjective in this case (even if I dislike G+, there's a difference between "not worth the money" and "rip-off"). However, it's a gigantic misrepresentation to pain WDW as a place where you need to shell out $10k or more for a family of 4-5 people. The $945/night room is a deluxe room (and likely one of the nicest rooms on property you can get paying cash). You can sleep 4-5 people in a Value or Moderate resort for a fraction of that cost. The complaint about the cost of park tickets lacks any relevant information (# of days? Park Hopper? What does a comparable ticket cost at a competitor like Universal?). It all reeks of an article written with the sole intention of convincing readers not to visit WDW rather than an objective article pointing out both complaints and the alternatives with relevant details to let people make an informed decision. And its a pattern of behavior of recent articles attacking the company for things that have nothing to do with the financial performance of the company, which is what Fox Business is supposed to be about. Fox has a Travel section of their Fox News site that would be a more appropriate home for that article (although that still wouldn't change the severe bias of the article itself).

OK I guess.......But you honestly sound more like an apologist............

Fact of the matter is, WDW has taken away a lot of free perks and now charge for them (ME, MBands, resort parking, FP+, etc.) while guest satisfaction numbers have plummeted

 

[Patcheslee]

It may be a rip-off to some people. You seem to think it is, so that immediately brings the % of customers, potential customers, or former customers who think that way to more than 0%. That's true of any large company to some extent. That doesn't mean that I agree with all of Disney's changes (I'm on record as saying here that I don't like losing DME or FP+ being removed for G+), but "rip-off" is purely subjective in this case (even if I dislike G+, there's a difference between "not worth the money" and "rip-off"). However, it's a gigantic misrepresentation to pain WDW as a place where you need to shell out $10k or more for a family of 4-5 people. The $945/night room is a deluxe room (and likely one of the nicest rooms on property you can get paying cash). You can sleep 4-5 people in a Value or Moderate resort for a fraction of that cost. The complaint about the cost of park tickets lacks any relevant information (# of days? Park Hopper? What does a comparable ticket cost at a competitor like Universal?). It all reeks of an article written with the sole intention of convincing readers not to visit WDW rather than an objective article pointing out both complaints and the alternatives with relevant details to let people make an informed decision. And its a pattern of behavior of recent articles attacking the company for things that have nothing to do with the financial performance of the company, which is what Fox Business is supposed to be about. Fox has a Travel section of their Fox News site that would be a more appropriate home for that article (although that still wouldn't change the severe bias of the article itself).

From the reading it was hopper tickets for 5 days, which made me assume they also went close to spring break i.e. higher priced tickets.

 

[matt9112]

Talking about price rises, I also expect to see some discounting of Genie+ for some categories. I know APers have an issue with Genie+ even at $15, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some limited quantity made available to some levels of AP at a lower price point.

Do we have some data lately about the genie
+ take rate?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

OK I guess.......But you honestly sound more like an apologist............

Fact of the matter is, WDW has taken away a lot of free perks and now charge for them (ME, MBands, resort parking, FP+, etc.) while guest satisfaction numbers have plummeted

Let's be honest. You think anyone who doesn't slam Disney 100% of the time is an apologist or an employee infiltrating this forum. It may seem odd to some people, but it is possible to enjoy going to WDW without enjoying 100% of the changes the company has made. Some people think even the Value resorts are overpriced. Others think the benefits of being on-site outweigh the cost savings of staying off-site. Neither group is wrong, because it's their money to spend how they see fit and different people place a higher value on different things. However, if a journalist ("article writer" is probably more accurate in this case) wants to write about the cost of a WDW vacation, focusing solely on the most expensive rooms on property while witholding details about the other items discussed (like the park tickets that were framed as being ridiculously priced without any details about what the tickets actually were) is a disingenuous way to do so.

 

[matt9112]

DVC members are watching. Including me who has several contracts

Than you can afford it....is likely there sentiment. I did buy a 50th anniversary phone case....so they did sneak some cash out of me. I miss the place but I also have a reality to attend to.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Do we have some data lately about the genie
+ take rate?

I'd like to know what % of users are repeat purchases (excluding those who pre-purchased the length-of-stay option before their trip) and what % have received refunds. Chapek telling investors what % of daily guests (with the vague "up to" preface) is mildly informative, but only a small section of the bigger picture. While it seems that they are selling more G+ per day than they anticipated, I have a feeling that the rate of repeat purchases is less than they'd expected, too - and they obviously weren't expecting to have to refund so many purchases.

 

[Jeff4272]

Let's be honest. You think anyone who doesn't slam Disney 100% of the time is an apologist or an employee infiltrating this forum. It may seem odd to some people, but it is possible to enjoy going to WDW without enjoying 100% of the changes the company has made. Some people think even the Value resorts are overpriced. Others think the benefits of being on-site outweigh the cost savings of staying off-site. Neither group is wrong, because it's their money to spend how they see fit and different people place a higher value on different things. However, if a journalist ("article writer" is probably more accurate in this case) wants to write about the cost of a WDW vacation, focusing solely on the most expensive rooms on property while witholding details about the other items discussed (like the park tickets that were framed as being ridiculously priced without any details about what the tickets actually were) is a disingenuous way to do so.

I'm just telling the truth, not making excuses for WDW removing free perks and driving guest satisfaction numbers to the lowest they have seen

Those are the facts

 

[matt9112]

Gotta be faster

Really when you view it the reservation should be real time pulled from the pool. Than if you say nah it goes right back into the pool (back this up with a timer) that way when your looking at a slot it's yours.

 

[matt9112]

I still am perplexed how inventory for a paid FP service is worse than when it was free - even as an AP arriving on a random day. I just don't get it.

Value .....its a thing....free fundamentally changes the value of an item vs cost.

 

[matt9112]

Not really, no. For veterans like us sure - we knew how to refresh and stack single rider reservations to get what we wanted. We knew how it worked. We knew the grace periods. We knew the rules with rider swap, etc.

I know many people who arrived for the first time in a long time during the FP+ era and felt like they were completely out of luck on FP. They looked, saw basically nothing, and gave up. It's really no different here. And you definitely weren't riding Space, 7DMT, FOP, etc...

Why wouldn't you plan ahead before dropping a few k on something? The new system means even the most educated and well versed individuals are still playing the lottery...and just like the lottery it costs money.

Being out of luck due to a free perk being gone is 180 degrees different from the same relative scenario but disney took more money from you.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Why wouldn't you plan ahead before dropping a few k on something? The new system means even the most educated and well versed individuals are still playing the lottery...and just like the lottery it costs money.

Being out of luck due to a free perk being gone is 180 degrees different from the same relative scenario but disney took more money from you.

I hear you but there is a significant psychological difference. If you charge $200 for an event with free parking vs. $180 for the event and then $20 for parking, there is a significant difference in how people react in each scenario. Day and night.

Most people aren't viewing this as deeply as us (re: the cost of FP+ being built into the cost of a ticket). It was free, plain and simple.

And re: your question about planning ahead - some people just don't know this is something that you need to do. A lot in fact. And it's one of the biggest reasons for doing away with advanced FP booking.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I'm just telling the truth, not making excuses for WDW removing free perks and driving guest satisfaction numbers to the lowest they have seen

Those are the facts

Has someone here been pretending that G+ isn't a customer service disaster or making excuses for getting rid of the Magical Express? Some people may like G+, but that doesn't make them apologists (though it make mean they are in the minority based on guest feedback). It means G+ works for them, possibly better than FP+ did, depending on how they spend their park days and whether they stay off-site or on-site. I'm not one of them. I loved FP+ and I think WDW needs to focus on incentivizing staying on-site, but I don't begrudge anyone staying off-site who feels like they got their money's worth out of G+. Quite frankly, if someone is concerned about the cost of a WDW vacation, then G+ is a bit of a godsend because it allows them to save more money by staying off-site than they'll spend on G+ (and they might even get a complimentary breakfast at their off-site hotel, too). Contrary to the arguments made by the author of the article (and "Disney is expensive" isn't exactly breaking news), WDW isn't only for the rich. SOME of WDW is only for the rich, sure (or, perhaps more accurately, the rich and/or irresponsible). The average family can't afford to stay at the Grand Floridian for a week. But they can probably afford Port Orleans or one of the value resorts. "Is it worth it?" isn't for me to decide for them.

And there's a difference between saying guest satisfaction is down and saying "Disney is only for the rich." The 2 things are not necessarily joined at the hip. "Disney is only for the rich," means that it is unaffordable for anyone who isn't rich. That's patently false. There are affordable ways to stay at WDW even for a family of 5 with an average income. By the same token, a rich person is just as capable as anyone else of being put off by G+ or the removal of DME ("just because I can afford it doesn't mean I'm willing to accept it"). But the experience that apparently caused the one family in the article to contact the media ($900+ per night for a hotel room) isn't the experience of most WDW guests. Pointing to the poor customer satisfaction scores associated with G+ doesn't change the fact that the writer of that article had an obvious agenda.

 

[Jeff4272]

Has someone here been pretending that G+ isn't a customer service disaster or making excuses for getting rid of the Magical Express? Some people may like G+, but that doesn't make them apologists (though it make mean they are in the minority based on guest feedback). It means G+ works for them, possibly better than FP+ did, depending on how they spend their park days and whether they stay off-site or on-site. I'm not one of them. I loved FP+ and I think WDW needs to focus on incentivizing staying on-site, but I don't begrudge anyone staying off-site who feels like they got their money's worth out of G+. Quite frankly, if someone is concerned about the cost of a WDW vacation, then G+ is a bit of a godsend because it allows them to save more money by staying off-site than they'll spend on G+ (and they might even get a complimentary breakfast at their off-site hotel, too). Contrary to the arguments made by the author of the article (and "Disney is expensive" isn't exactly breaking news), WDW isn't only for the rich. SOME of WDW is only for the rich, sure (or, perhaps more accurately, the rich and/or irresponsible). The average family can't afford to stay at the Grand Floridian for a week. But they can probably afford Port Orleans or one of the value resorts. "Is it worth it?" isn't for me to decide for them.

And there's a difference between saying guest satisfaction is down and saying "Disney is only for the rich." The 2 things are not necessarily joined at the hip. "Disney is only for the rich," means that it is unaffordable for anyone who isn't rich. That's patently false. There are affordable ways to stay at WDW even for a family of 5 with an average income. By the same token, a rich person is just as capable as anyone else of being put off by G+ or the removal of DME ("just because I can afford it doesn't mean I'm willing to accept it"). But the experience that apparently caused the one family in the article to contact the media ($900+ per night for a hotel room) isn't the experience of most WDW guests. Pointing to the poor customer satisfaction scores associated with G+ doesn't change the fact that the writer of that article had an obvious agenda.

So you're saying its politically motived because of the FLA Parents Rights In Education bill?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

So you're saying its politically motived because of the FLA Parents Rights In Education bill?

If it's not then it's an oddly coincidental pattern that has emerged since then. They didn't have an article about Pride collection t-shirts in kids' sizes last year and now they do (and even referenced the FL controversy in the article). Now they find it newsworthy that a family was outraged by the cost of their Disney vacation (but not so outraged as to not book the trip despite knowing the price of the room and tickets when they booked). By the way, that family is from NJ. I'm from NJ. NOBODY from NJ should have sticker shock from the food prices at WDW. That's something for people from states with lower cost of living to "enjoy."

 

[G00fyDad]

@Chip Chipperson , what's it like talking to a vacuum? I wouldn't bother with that member.

 

[HoustonHorn]

WDWMagic Forum Posters: Disney isn't the same! They've taken away Magical Express! They've replaced free FastPass with a paid system! They raise prices! They scale back entertainment! They're pricing out the middle class! They charge for parking! They are only catering to guests who can spend the most money!

FoxBusiness: Disney isn't the same! They've taken away Magical Express! They've replaced free FastPass with a paid system! They raise prices! They scale back entertainment! They're pricing out the middle class! They charge for parking! They are only catering to guests who can spend the most money!

WDWMagic Forum Posters: Fox has it out for Disney because DeSantis told them that Disney is evil, and those criticisms can't be taken seriously because of the source.

HoustonHorn:

 

[Chip Chipperson]

WDWMagic Forum Posters: Disney isn't the same! They've taken away Magical Express! They've replaced free FastPass with a paid system! They raise prices! They scale back entertainment! They're pricing out the middle class! They charge for parking! They are only catering to guests who can spend the most money!

FoxBusiness: Disney isn't the same! They've taken away Magical Express! They've replaced free FastPass with a paid system! They raise prices! They scale back entertainment! They're pricing out the middle class! They charge for parking! They are only catering to guests who can spend the most money!

WDWMagic Forum Posters: Fox has it out for Disney because DeSantis told them that Disney is evil, and those criticisms can't be taken seriously because of the source.

HoustonHorn:

If you can find a post of mine stating that WDW is pricing out the middle class or only catering to guests with money then I'm happy to be reminded of it. Or you could read the article in question and see why it is flawed and biased. One can criticize changes at Disney AND call out shoddy "reporting" without contradicting oneself. Also, I never said that Fox Business can't be taken seriously because it's Fox, so your attempt at putting words in my mouth is a fail. I actually visit Fox Business multiple times per week checking on the prices of my stocks and following the market, but that doesn't mean they don't have plenty of articles that are written to appease a percentage of their viewers. Most of the major news sites do it and they are rarely good at hiding it from anyone but their core demographic. The ability and willingness to differentiate between the good and bad articles from any source is a good thing - and in this case, making it seem like you need to drop $900+ per night on a hotel at WDW is one of several flaws that makes this particular article a bad one.