Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

homerdance

Well-Known Member
I completely agree. My DW and I went last August and tried to rope drop some of the more popular rides (like Avatar). We were completely miserable and discovered we are just too old (and out-of-shape) for that sort of running. With Fastpass, we could pre-reserve some times for rides. It was nice going to WDW with some idea of what we were going to be able to do. If we lucked into more, then that was gravy.

For our next trip, I've purchased Genie+ (just to try it out), but we're going not knowing if it will really help or just be a waste of money. Plus, I'm not really looking forward to how chained to my phone I'm going to have to be this trip.
From our experience, this is a downgrade from FP+. Take the $15 per person out of the equation, it still is an inferior product. First problem is they have taken the “top” rides out of the normal FP pool. Second, they do these weird drops throughout the day. So you have to figure out the drop times of each ride. Third, just because you see and select something doesn’t mean you will get it. Super frustrating to select a LL at 9am and see that slide all the way to 9 pm by the time you get done booking it. Fourth, changing a LL is a risky proposition. Fifth, good luck getting a decent touring plan. We walked more zig zagging the park using g+ the we did with legacy FP. And now, somehow, the standby lines seem longer.

One thing better is the actual wait times of the LL ARE far less than what it was with FP+.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I'm still not convinced building new attractions results in any sustained attendance spike. Attendance appears to be growing pretty consistently from year to year even when nothing is added.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I'm still not convinced building new attractions results in any sustained attendance spike. Attendance appears to be growing pretty consistently from year to year even when nothing is added.
There's no such thing as a sustained spike. Also:

New Fantasyland
Rat
Frozen (I know)
Galaxy's Edge
Toy Story Land
Pandora

As much as everyone laments the demise of new stuff, that's not nothing over a ten year stretch.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
There's no such thing as a sustained spike. Also:

New Fantasyland
Rat
Frozen (I know)
Galaxy's Edge
Toy Story Land
Pandora

As much as everyone laments the demise of new stuff, that's not nothing over a ten year stretch.

I meant that new attractions almost certainly lead to a short-term spike when they first open, but I don't think there's any concrete evidence that they've actually led to a sustained increase beyond what's already happening. It's even possible that they only lead to a spike in whichever park they open and don't have a significant effect on overall attendance, especially after the first year or two.

Did attendance really increase significantly more in the years those opened vs. years nothing opened? It may have (and I don't think we have any official numbers) but my recollection is that the unofficial yearly attendance has increased pretty steadily regardless of any new openings. I think the new openings did see a slightly bigger bump, but I don't think it was ever enough to outweigh the increased capacity.

I guess it's hard to really know because there was the recession and then COVID, which throws everything off.
 
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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
To an extent but you could add decent omnimover dark rides that can eat people but not really be so spectacular that trips are planned because of them. I'm thinking things like Nemo which is just an OK ride but not a complete waste of time to ride. Problem is that Nemo was a retheme so it didn't add capacity to Epcot.

People keep saying things like this: Disney needs more C and D tickets that are going to add to capacity without generating more demand.

But when they get built, every person with a Disney chip on their shoulder excoriates the parks, Disney, the CEO, the imagineers, and the pencil pushers for the new ride not being a spectacular new E Ticket.

Remember the howling that Poppins was only going to be a carousel or Tales with Mary? There's your C Ticket. And the whining commenced.
"But Swirling Saucers and SDD weren't themed enough!!"

If they were that well themed, they'd be an E Ticket, and didn't we all agree we need more C's and D's?
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
People keep saying things like this: Disney needs more C and D tickets that are going to add to capacity without generating more demand.

But when they get built, every person with a Disney chip on their shoulder excoriates the parks, Disney, the CEO, the imagineers, and the pencil pushers for the new ride not being a spectacular new E Ticket.

Remember the howling that Poppins was only going to be a carousel or Tales with Mary? There's your C Ticket. And the whining commenced.
"But Swirling Saucers and SDD weren't themed enough!!"

If they were that well themed, they'd be an E Ticket, and didn't we all agree we need more C's and D's?
I'm not sure that's the issue. Disney tends to make out like these additions are the most magical thing ever and then they deliver a C ticket. They can control the expectations of the offering. I think they are a media company or something like that?
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
If they were that well themed, they'd be an E Ticket, and didn't we all agree we need more C's and D's?

Well that's not true. Most of Disney's C and D tickets are very well themed -- the only real exceptions, at least off the top of my head, are the flat rides (are those even C tickets?). Oh, and the Tomorrowland Speedway. I'm probably forgetting something, but those are the only ones that jump out at me. Regardless of anyone's personal opinion on the overall quality of rides like NRJ and Little Mermaid, they're certainly themed.

SDD is near the bottom in terms of theming among WDW attractions, made worse by the fact it has a bunch of vacant space around it. It's not like they didn't have the option to add more theming along the track instead of looking at empty land and backstage buildings.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Well that's not true. Most of Disney's C and D tickets are very well themed -- the only real exceptions, at least off the top of my head, are the flat rides (are those even C tickets?). Oh, and the Tomorrowland Speedway. I'm probably forgetting something, but

SDD is definitely near the bottom in terms of theming among WDW attractions, made worse by the fact it has a bunch of vacant space around it. It's not like they didn't have the option to add more theming along the track.
A.Swirling Saucers *is* a flat ride.

Spinners are Cs. Well, according to the paper tickets before they want away.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
A.Swirling Saucers *is* a flat ride.

Spinners are Cs. Well, according to the paper tickets before they want away.

Yeah, that's why I only mentioned SDD and not Swirling Saucers. It's basically in the same category as Dumbo to me.

My only real issue with Swirling Saucers is that there's only one. If they weren't going to add additional theming around the Slinky track, they should have put in extra flat rides there for additional capacity. But that's an issue with the overall design of TSL; not an issue with Swirling Saucers itself.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
From our experience, this is a downgrade from FP+. Take the $15 per person out of the equation, it still is an inferior product. First problem is they have taken the “top” rides out of the normal FP pool. Second, they do these weird drops throughout the day. So you have to figure out the drop times of each ride. Third, just because you see and select something doesn’t mean you will get it. Super frustrating to select a LL at 9am and see that slide all the way to 9 pm by the time you get done booking it. Fourth, changing a LL is a risky proposition. Fifth, good luck getting a decent touring plan. We walked more zig zagging the park using g+ the we did with legacy FP. And now, somehow, the standby lines seem longer.

One thing better is the actual wait times of the LL ARE far less than what it was with FP+.
Could less people utilizing Genie+ be contributing to the longer stand-by lines? Or worse people who use to not be full park day people have changed their style to utilize Genie+ so they are in the park longer and contribute to stand-by vs being at a pool, napping, etc.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I'm not sure that's the issue. Disney tends to make out like these additions are the most magical thing ever and then they deliver a C ticket. They can control the expectations of the offering. I think they are a media company or something like that?
Is your position that the Marketing department should be running ads along the lines of "this new attraction isn't that good, but it'll help ease the congestion somewhat at the rides you ACTUALLY want to experience"?
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Is your position that the Marketing department should be running ads along the lines of "this new attraction isn't that good, but it'll help ease the congestion somewhat at the rides you ACTUALLY want to experience"?
No, it should be marketed for what it is and the expectations controlled so that the backlash isn't generated. If you want to generate buzz and interest you run an ad campaign if you want to increase capacity to catch up with the business you already generated you just open things. No need to hype mediocrity if the goal is not to increase traffic but to relieve pressure.
The company is in control of all aspects of this and should not be surprised at the results.
 

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