Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[MrPromey]

Agreed and agreed. I think it’s a combination of that and the public’s baked-in perception that waiting in long lines is a negative.

But going back to FP+, and FP before that, and 100% standby before that, someone (and really, a lot of people) was/were always waiting in a prohibitively long line.

The discussion is somewhat cyclical as (and I agree) it does come back to capacity, which they’ve reduced through limiting operating hours, cutting the number of diversions/minor attractions/parades and shows, and arguably overbuilding the number of available resort rooms. Building new super-headliners at less-than-optimal per-hour throughput rates doesn’t help either.

If they could correct those errors that would certainly help tremendously. But (academically at least), if building capacity is off the table and we can’t go back to FP, FP+ or standby only, how can the existing system be improved? Or can it be without scrapping it altogether?

I think the waiting in lines thing is of course, a societal/generational attention span issue but also that you have to consider the wait vs. the experience.

There's a huge difference between waiting up to an hour to do a 15-25 minute ride vs a 3-4 minute ride.

I mean, Splash Mountain is a thrill ride but due to the multiple show scenes and pacing, it feels like a much larger and more complete experience than say, Slinky Dog which for whatever reason, is the lame kiddie ride hot ticket that everyone seems to be stressing over getting.

I waited 90 minutes for Slinky and will never do it again unless it's a walk-on (which means probably never again) but I've waited 90 minutes for Splash too and, when things are all working, I would not consider it a waste to wait an hour or more for that. I'd say the same for Big Thunder Mountain even though it's not a particularly long ride.

I think SDMT fails here, too because while it's a great set piece for Fantasyland, the actual roller coaster experience is mediocre and the show scenes are too few and too quck to register making a 60+ minute wait for that a bad value proposition. (IMHO)

Part of the problem is that Disney's building shorter and less complete feeling attractions because they claim that's what guests want but the result is that when you go from hour line to hour line with only under 5 minute rides without a lot built in for these lines, it feels like you spend nearly the whole day waiting to do stuff rather than doing stuff because that's exactly what's happening.

Also, last time we were there we waited 45 minutes for the People Mover which, for many, many years was a literal walk-on. Today, it's usually not a matter of waiting in longish lines for the biggest/newest attractions and then filling in the rest of the day with the other stuff.

Instead, it's waiting in longish lines for everything that isn't COP - even 40 year old attractions that for most of their life had little to no wait.

As for improving the existing system, the question is really for who?

Are we talking the majority of guests? Resort guests? Deluxe only resort guests?.. Or Disney?

Because for Disney, the current arrangement is probably already optimal.

 

[MrPromey]

Having an edict from high up in the company that any line-skipping system has to be monetized (to increase revenue short-term and create a new revenue stream long-term) doesn’t exactly help matters either. Now it’s a question of adjusting pricing to balance guest satisfaction (via perceived value based on price paid and availability of line-skipping selections) and profit. ETA: Or at least making the system more user-friendly. Or simply scrapping the whole thing and starting over.

Unless they believe they’ve already upon hit a price point that maximizes profits regardless of the guest experience. I guess time will tell.

And this monetization has created a whole new mess because now that people are explicitly paying for something, it's entirely reasonable for those people to have expectations that go along with having paid for something extra.

A system that is less reliable and providing less than what it replaced which is also now being provided at a cost is going to be met with unhappy customers as long as those customers have had exposure to the previous system.

If Disney goes all-in with their apparent new-business only strategy, this could work but then we have a whole new generation/wave of people ready to be angry and expressing how much better things used to be as they as customers get kicked to the curb, just like past generations seem to have been with current management.

I'll get the coffee and ready for 'em.

 

[Chi84]

I don’t speak for all FP+ lovers but if there were things we were unhappy with, they pale in comparison to the things we’re unhappy with now.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t speak for all FP+ lovers but if there were things we were unhappy with, they pale in comparison to the things we’re unhappy with now.

Amen to that. Back when the abolishment of FP+ was announced and many here expressed their pleasure, I had a horrible feeling that none of us would like what Disney had in store as the replacement. I wanted so much to be wrong, but here we are, with the fans of FP+ deprived of something they enjoyed and the haters of FP+ seemingly even less satisfied than they had been before. It’s a lose-lose situation.

 

[Thepuma]

I agree with others that a FP+ add on to your vacation package (with varying rates and availability based on which resort category is being purchased) would perhaps have made more sense. I also think over-reliance on cellphone tech is bogging the process down from a user perspective and adding to the frustration level. Instead of leisurely (comparatively speaking) planning out the passes from the comfort of your living room, you’re under the gun all day, every day of your vacation, planning on the fly but having to battle a cellphone app to do so. Instead of just enjoying your day at the parks.

The current system seems bloated with tedium and complications, is extremely time-sensitive, and costs money to boot when the previous systems were simpler and free.

All of that affects perceived value in an emotional situation that for many is already stressful to navigate.

Yep...its our last night tonight before we fly back to the UK and after watching the EPCOT fireworks my gf said to me "I've really enjoyed the holiday, it's just a shame you've had to have your head buried in your phone a lot of the time to get us on the rides we want"

She can see how the new Genie system has changed our experience compared to our previous trips...and how much harder I've had to work to get anywhere near our previous experience.

I don’t speak for all FP+ lovers but if there were things we were unhappy with, they pale in comparison to the things we’re unhappy with now.

This 100%

It's a double Whammy...its a worse system and it's more expensive.

Ultimate kick in the teeth.

 

[Jrb1979]

The one thing that doesn't make any sense is the lack of availability. In theory there should be more availability with everyone limited to 1 at a time. With FP+ people would have 3 at once tied up a day.

 

[LittleBuford]

The one thing that doesn't make any sense is the lack of availability. In theory there should be more availability with everyone limited to 1 at a time. With FP+ people would have 3 at once tied up a day.

You’re assuming that there are the same absolute number of passes available now. Based on what people are reporting, however, there seem to be fewer.

 

[MrPromey]

The one thing that doesn't make any sense is the lack of availability. In theory there should be more availability with everyone limited to 1 at a time. With FP+ people would have 3 at once tied up a day.

The thing is, once you get your first one, you're tied up either until you use it or until a time limit has expired which means everyone else not tied up is free to get those times for other popular attractions you might have otherwise snagged along with your first choice.

In every park that's not the Magic Kingdom, it's a feeding frenzy for the few prime options people are actually after.

For experienced resort guests used to going with the 60+ day advantage for grabbing their slots who were really on it and ready to grab the slots for their entire length of stay at the moment the clock turned, this new arrangement is likely to come as a shock but my guess is that the more desirable first-choice slots are just getting sucked up by more people now rather than a few getting all or most of their first picks.

As a Florida resident AP holder who never books a stay more than two months out because Disney World just isn't a vacation destination to me, since they opened, I never saw FP+ availability when I checked for 7DMT, FOP, NRJ, or SDD so this really doesn't come as much of a shock to me.

I take that back, while in the park, FOP opened once for me but was gone before I could confirm the change to my selections.

This system, I believe, exposes the inadequacy of their capacity for popular attractions to a wider range of guests, now than it did before.

 

[LittleBuford]

The thing is, once you get your first one, you're tied up either until you use it or until a time limit has expired which means everyone else not tied up is free to get those times for other popular attractions you might have otherwise snagged along with your first choice.

In every park that's not the Magic Kingdom, it's a feeding frenzy for the few prime options people are actually after.

For experienced resort guests used to going with the 60+ day advantage for grabbing their slots who were really on it and ready to grab the slots for their entire length of stay at the moment the clock turned, this new arrangement is likely to come as a shock but my guess is that the more desirable first-choice slots are just getting sucked up by more people now rather than a few getting all or most of their first picks.

As a Florida resident AP holder who never books a stay more than two months out because Disney World just isn't a vacation destination to me, since they opened, I never saw FP+ availability when I checked for 7DMT, FOP, NRJ, or SDD so this really doesn't come as much of a shock to me.

I take that back, while in the park, FOP opened once for me but was gone before I could confirm the change to my selections.

This system, I believe, exposes the inadequacy of their capacity for popular attractions to a wider range of guests, now than it did before.

I don’t think your explanation can really account for the lack of availability that people are reporting here. I was able to secure solid same-day FP+ selections well into the evening, even during busy times.

 

[MrPromey]

I don’t think your explanation can really account for the lack of availability that people are reporting here. I was able to secure solid same-day FP+ selections well into the evening, even during busy times.

What are you considering solid selections?

It would be interesting if they actually are holding back for some reason since one of the advantages of the daily pay-to-play operation of this is that they could at least in theory, in real time, scale the amount of queue available on busy days to better meet demand when usage of G+ goes higher.

For instance, if people start filling in and booking it around 10am in a given park, they should be able to start holding back more attraction capacity within that park starting from that time forward for the remainder of the day, one would think.

 

[Jrb1979]

The thing is, once you get your first one, you're tied up either until you use it or until a time limit has expired which means everyone else not tied up is free to get those times for other popular attractions you might have otherwise snagged along with your first choice.

In every park that's not the Magic Kingdom, it's a feeding frenzy for the few prime options people are actually after.

For experienced resort guests used to going with the 60+ day advantage for grabbing their slots who were really on it and ready to grab the slots for their entire length of stay at the moment the clock turned, this new arrangement is likely to come as a shock but my guess is that the more desirable first-choice slots are just getting sucked up by more people now rather than a few getting all or most of their first picks.

As a Florida resident AP holder who never books a stay more than two months out because Disney World just isn't a vacation destination to me, since they opened, I never saw FP+ availability when I checked for 7DMT, FOP, NRJ, or SDD so this really doesn't come as much of a shock to me.

I take that back, while in the park, FOP opened once for me but was gone before I could confirm the change to my selections.

This system, I believe, exposes the inadequacy of their capacity for popular attractions to a wider range of guests, now than it did before.

I agree they have capacity issues. It's also a big reason I am a firm believer in making it available to everyone makes it even worse. IMO they should have went the Universal route but don't give to anyone for free.

There is a reason every other park limits skip the line availability. It doesn't work if everyone has it. I know the reasons Disney does it this way, it just doesn't work.

I don’t think your explanation can really account for the lack of availability that people are reporting here. I was able to secure solid same-day FP+ selections well into the evening, even during busy times.

From what you said my guess for the lower availability is to make sure those who get LL have a short wait. Personally I think they are trying way to hard to balance standby and LL. It shouldn't be that way. In my mind if I'm paying I better get my moneys worth. If that means adding availability and upping the ratio more towards LL so be it. The ratio should be 9:1 LL to standby.

 

[Virtual Toad]

I don’t think your explanation can really account for the lack of availability that people are reporting here. I was able to secure solid same-day FP+ selections well into the evening, even during busy times.

To what extent are they short-changing availability to create artificial scarcity? Making meh attractions such as SDD seem much better than they really are because scoring a LL is so incredibly difficult?

No way would I pay $$ to ride Space Mountain in its current dilapidated condition when back in the day I could ride it 3 times a night for free not ever waiting more than 15-20 minutes to do so. But newer guests have no idea what they missed and what they are missing.

 

[LittleBuford]

What are you considering solid selections?

Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Soarin’, Big Thunder Mountain, Toy Story Midway Mania—really most rides except for the ones that really did become unavailable 60 days before (e.g., Peter Pan’s Flight and Mine Train).

 

[MrPromey]

Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Soarin’, Big Thunder Mountain, Toy Story Midway Mania—really most rides except for the ones that really did become unavailable 60 days before (e.g., Peter Pan’s Flight and Mine Train).

Don't know what I've been doing wrong these past few years but going 7-10 times a year, this has not been my experience the vast majority of the time.

Securing Fast Passes for all that you've mentioned a day or more in advance usually wasn't difficult but after burning through the first three it was almost always lesser stuff unless I was glued to my phone playing the hunting/swapping game all day or securing one for many hours later in the day.

One thing I can think of that might be dramatically different is that most of my trips were/are weekends, sometimes long weekends since again, I don't vacation to WDW.

I could see that making a big difference between our experiences.

 

[LittleBuford]

Don't know what I've been doing wrong these past few years but going 7-10 times a year, this has not been my experience the vast majority of the time.

Securing Fast Passes for all that you've mentioned a day or more in advance usually wasn't difficult but after burning through the first three it was almost always lesser stuff unless I was glued to my phone playing the hunting/swapping game all day or securing one for many hours later in the day.

One thing I can think of that might be dramatically different is that most of my trips were/are weekends, sometimes long weekends since again, I don't vacation to WDW.

I could see that making a big difference between our experiences.

My trips during the FP+ era were almost all at busy times (spring break and Thanksgiving week), though generally not at weekends. I refreshed the app often while standing in (short) lines, for what that’s worth.

 

[Thepuma]

The one thing that doesn't make any sense is the lack of availability. In theory there should be more availability with everyone limited to 1 at a time. With FP+ people would have 3 at once tied up a day.

On top of that LESS people using it as you have to pay for it now, so the LL should be high availability.

 

[Thepuma]

You’re assuming that there are the same absolute number of passes available now. Based on what people are reporting, however, there seem to be fewer.

If not then the stand by queues should be running quicker, which they arent

 

[Thepuma]

Don't know what I've been doing wrong these past few years but going 7-10 times a year, this has not been my experience the vast majority of the time.

Securing Fast Passes for all that you've mentioned a day or more in advance usually wasn't difficult but after burning through the first three it was almost always lesser stuff unless I was glued to my phone playing the hunting/swapping game all day or securing one for many hours later in the day.

One thing I can think of that might be dramatically different is that most of my trips were/are weekends, sometimes long weekends since again, I don't vacation to WDW.

I could see that making a big difference between our experiences.

We've been about 18 times in the past from the UK with FP+ and the ONLY ones I could never get 30 days in advance were FOP, SDD and some times SDMT. Everything else I was able to snag

 

[Thepuma]

To what extent are they short-changing availability to create artificial scarcity? Making meh attractions such as SDD seem much better than they really are because scoring a LL is so incredibly difficult?

No way would I pay $$ to ride Space Mountain in its current dilapidated condition when back in the day I could ride it 3 times a night for free not ever waiting more than 15-20 minutes to do so. But newer guests have no idea what they missed and what they are missing.

In fact...I was absolutely stunned when I heard SM was one of the top 2 LL+ rides being the paid ones. It's one of the worst rides in the park. SDMT yeah obviously, but surely they should have made it HM or JC?

 

[MrPromey]

We've been about 18 times in the past from the UK with FP+ and the ONLY ones I could never get 30 days in advance were FOP, SDD and some times SDMT. Everything else I was able to snag

So the exact same as what I listed in my previous post minus the River Journey... Basically just about everything less than a decade old.