Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
If there were enough to do then you wouldn’t want to skip lines, as they’d average out to be about 20 - 30 minutes, giving everyone that optimal 1.5 - 2 attractions per hour.
As I said, adding attractions hasn’t reduced crowds in the past; it simply encourages more people to come. I have never struggled to find things to do during my trips; on the contrary, I usually run out of time before I get through my list, and that’s with line-skipping.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
As I said, adding attractions hasn’t reduced crowds in the past; it simply encourages more people to come. I have never struggled to find things to do during my trips; on the contrary, I usually run out of time before I get through my list, and that’s with line-skipping.
The line skipping wasn’t really line skipping. You were losing that time in other ways.

Crowding is relative and Disney hasn’t meaningfully increased capacity. They’re also unable to build the sort of attractions that don’t induce demand.

Getting in 1.5 - 2 attractions per hour isn’t something most could casually accomplish at the parks.
 

mightynine

Well-Known Member
I notice the ILL guide on the site that must not be named has screenshots that include a virtual standby queue option for Mine Train and the regular standby queue listed as “Not Available”. Is that the first time we’ve confirmed the virtual standby line for WDW on a ride that doesn’t normally have it, or have I missed it?

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Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
Like I’ve said so many times before, Magic Kingdom today has less dining capacity than 30 years ago. I’ve been there on busy days (with late hours) where Village Haus was half open, but Disney is “crowded” so people accepted the 45 minute waits for lousy pizza.
If lines for food are that long I would consider doing doordash now for something besides pizza.
I haven't been since the mobile order with scheduled times came around. But if having to set order pickup times far in advance to avoid missing a time slot, it just doesn't seem worth it for a QS.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
If there were enough to do then you wouldn’t want to skip lines, as they’d average out to be about 20 - 30 minutes, giving everyone that optimal 1.5 - 2 attractions per hour.
Ideally though....if Genie is what it hopes to be- there should be enough for everyone to do.

Technically, the problem isn't the quantity of things to do, but the differential demand of the offerings. It is not so much a problem of quantity, but distribution. If Genie improves distribution, then flow should improve.

We can EASILY go on 'attractions' all day and NEVER wait more than 20minutes for any of them, we just have to choose wisely, and avoid the ones with long lines.

I have happily spent many full days in Epcot, where my group didn't do any of the FP attractions at all. AK also has many things to do that aren't FP attractions. One can happily fill a good chunk of a park day: looking at animals, listening to performers, eating, watching parades, checking out all the details of Pandora/gardens of Epcot, etc.

Another option that only partly includes going on rides is hunting for hidden Mickeys. Sampling foods/beverages is another option. During the Epcot art festival, there are quite a few non-ride things to do/see, if one is interested in seeing the festival offerings. Truly, the Epcot festivals are one of the best ideas Disney has had.

But that too isn't all. Distribution is a huge problem in the parks. People often mindlessly head to the most crowded part of the park based on emotion. Fastpass helped a little, but there is much room to improve.
 
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dreday3

Well-Known Member
I notice the ILL guide on the site that must not be named has screenshots that include a virtual standby queue option for Mine Train and the regular standby queue listed as “Not Available”. Is that the first time we’ve confirmed the virtual standby line for WDW on a ride that doesn’t normally have it, or have I missed it?

View attachment 593897

I saw that too! I'm wondering if its something they plan to include down the road, see how well the paid attractions do first.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If lines for food are that long I would consider doing doordash now for something besides pizza.
I haven't been since the mobile order with scheduled times came around. But if having to set order pickup times far in advance to avoid missing a time slot, it just doesn't seem worth it for a QS.
This was pre-pandemic.

I think I have a better sense than you do of how I spent my time. Good-faith discussion between us is simply impossible if you won’t do me the basic courtesy of treating me like a rational human being rather than a simpleton in Disney’s thrall.
I made no value judgement on how you spent your time. Neither FastPass nor FastPass+ were skip the line systems. There’s only so much capacity and it did not keep up with demand. There is no way either system pushed through more people, so that time that would have been spent in a queue was reallocated elsewhere. Some with extensive knowledge of how the systems worked we’re able to eventually use them to their benefit, but that is still a fringe case and not how most people use the system. Were you getting 2 attractions per hour and only with a casual knowledge of the system?

Ideally though....if Genie is what it hopes to be- there should be enough for everyone to do.

Technically, the problem isn't the quantity of things to do, but the differential demand of the offerings.

We can EASILY go on 'attractions' all day and NEVER wait more than 20minutes for any of them, we just have to choose wisely, and avoid the ones with long lines.

I have happily spent many full days in Epcot, where my group didn't do any of the FP attractions at all. AK also has many things to do that aren't FP attractions. One can happily fill a good chunk of a park day: looking at animals, listening to performers, eating, watching parades, checking out all the details of Pandora/gardens of Epcot, etc.

Another option that only partly includes going on rides is hunting for hidden Mickeys. Sampling foods/beverages is another option. During the Epcot art festival, there are quite a few non-ride things to do/see, if one is interested in seeing the festival offerings. Truly, the Epcot festivals are one of the best ideas Disney has had.
The problem very much is quantity. Yes, someone could spend three hours walking a walkthrough at Disney’s Animal Kingdom but it’s not how most people visit the park. Everything also doesn’t appeal to everyone. By design, Disney-MGM Studios and the post-Disneyland Paris parks have just enough to make for a technically “satisfying” day but people don’t want to do everything for a variety of reasons ranging from not liking an experience to being physically unable to do the experience. That’s why these parks have all been called half day parks.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I find it perverse that people who no longer enjoy WDW yet continue to spend their time and money there have taken it upon themselves to berate those of us who are actually happy with the product we’re buying. Perhaps they should face their own ambivalence and inconsistency before trying to convince us that our lived experiences and personal preferences are illusory.
 

SteveAZee

Premium Member
I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t consider the parks to be under-capacity. I think there are plenty of things to do and see, and the addition of new attractions has (as far as I know) done nothing before now to bring crowd levels down.
I think there are a lot of people who look at the non-MK parks as half-day parks, but I'm guessing it's because there's only a half-day's worth of stuff they're interested in. Some people are looking for fast rollercoaster type rides, some are looking for the slow and kid-friendly things to do, other are looking for parades, shows, and the like. Personally, I think it's good that there's enough variety in each park to have some interest to everyone, but not everything is interesting to everyone. That said, it would be good to have 'more of everything' at the parks that aren't the MK so the crowd burden is shared. It's kinda/sorta what they're doing, just rather ham-handedly.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I think there are a lot of people who look at the non-MK parks as half-day parks, but I'm guessing it's because there's only a half-day's worth of stuff they're interested in. Some people are looking for fast rollercoaster type rides, some are looking for the slow and kid-friendly things to do, other are looking for parades, shows, and the like. Personally, I think it's good that there's enough variety in each park to have some interest to everyone, but not everything is interesting to everyone. That said, it would be good to have 'more of everything' at the parks that aren't the MK so the crowd burden is shared. It's kinda/sorta what they're doing, just rather ham-handedly.
I largely agree with this. To clarify my earlier point, I don’t consider new attractions to be superfluous and I welcome their addition; I just don’t see an urgent need for them, nor am I convinced that they do much, if anything, to reduce crowds.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
The line skipping wasn’t really line skipping. You were losing that time in other ways.
I wasn't. I was most likely at Blizzard Beach or possibly the resort pool. Then we would do our three FastPasses and head out to dinner.
that time that would have been spent in a queue was reallocated elsewhere.
It was. Most likely spent doing things other than rides; we like the boat rides from Disney Springs to Port Orleans Riverside. We have a lot more time to do that if we're not waiting an hour for FOP.
 
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SteveAZee

Premium Member
I largely agree with this. To clarify my earlier point, I don’t consider new attractions to be superfluous and welcome their addition; I just don’t see an urgent need for them.
If new attractions show up in non-MK parks and even out the load of guests without enticing more visitors to the resort, I think it's great. LOL, I don't think KiteTails is doing it, though. 😏
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think there are a lot of people who look at the non-MK parks as half-day parks, but I'm guessing it's because there's only a half-day's worth of stuff they're interested in. Some people are looking for fast rollercoaster type rides, some are looking for the slow and kid-friendly things to do, other are looking for parades, shows, and the like. Personally, I think it's good that there's enough variety in each park to have some interest to everyone, but not everything is interesting to everyone. That said, it would be good to have 'more of everything' at the parks that aren't the MK so the crowd burden is shared. It's kinda/sorta what they're doing, just rather ham-handedly.
That’s how most people look at parks. Not everything appeals to everyone. Some people just don’t like shows. Some don’t like parades. Some can’t physically handle certain rides. That’s why variety is important and it’s how you get a strong capacity that is able to serve more people over a wider variety of attendance scenarios
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
I find it perverse that people who no longer enjoy WDW yet continue to spend their time and money there have taken it upon themselves to berate those of us who are actually happy with the product we’re buying. Perhaps they should face their own ambivalence and inconsistency before trying to convince us that our lived experiences and personal preferences are illusory.
Let me make this clear: you do not get to dictate that I don’t enjoy the parks, or that the way that I experience them is somehow wrong or “perverse,” or that there is something wrong with me (or other posters) because we are able to engage with Disney critically while also enjoying many elements of it. Disney, Marvel, Star Wars, and WDW mean a great deal to me and my fondness for and fascination with them has shaped my life more then I feel it necessary to explain here. I am not going to give up on that because I feel the parks are being mismanaged currently - I’m not going to let foolish executives take possession of something I love. So please feel free to exchange opinions and debate the reality of the park, but stop trying to shut down debate by positing your perception as the limit of discussion and please don’t try to define opposing views of the park a product of personal maladjustment.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
The problem very much is quantity. Yes, someone could spend three hours walking a walkthrough at Disney’s Animal Kingdom but it’s not how most people visit the park. Everything also doesn’t appeal to everyone. By design, Disney-MGM Studios and the post-Disneyland Paris parks have just enough to make for a technically “satisfying” day but people don’t want to do everything for a variety of reasons ranging from not liking an experience to being physically unable to do the experience. That’s why these parks have all been called half day parks.
I'll grant, HS doesn't have enough attractions. In that park it is a problem. AK would also benefit from more.

In MK though, uneven distribution of crowds is a very big factor. That's basically the whole premise of touring plans - to zig when the crowd zags.

I strongly agree more dining capacity is needed, but I also have a long history of zigging when the crowd zags. A very simple step is to avoid eating lunch exactly at noon.

Another similar zig is to avoid breakfast rush hour at the hotel food courts. When 3 of the 4 parks all opened at 9am, the food court breakfast rush hour was crazy. About 8:15am all the food courts would all be nearly empty. At 8:25am, they were a madhouse! It was amazing the difference 10 minutes made. Yet MANY people don't stop to think about it at all. They see a busy food court without ever really considering that a shift of just 5minutes would save them10+minutes of waiting.

Attractions aren't quite that simple, but there are ample opportunities for optimization of distribution, though it won't help me personally at all.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
That’s how most people look at parks. Not everything appeals to everyone. Some people just don’t like shows. Some don’t like parades. Some can’t physically handle certain rides. That’s why variety is important and it’s how you get a strong capacity that is able to serve more people over a wider variety of attendance scenarios

If people don't want to do Magic Carpets of Aladdin AND Rock 'N Roller Coaster than they're not real Disney fans and should never have gone to Walt Disney Studios Park. ;)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I wasn't. I was most likely at Blizzard Beach or possibly the resort pool. Then we would do our three FastPasses and head out to dinner.

It was. Most likely spent doing things other than rides; we like the boat rides from Disney Springs to Port Orleans Riverside. We have a lot more time to do that if we're not waiting an our for FOP.
Again, these a very specific personal uses of the system built on your personal knowledge and preferences. The design day for a major theme park is going to be something like 10 hours, not an evening.

What you describe though is the classic two places at once. FastPass+ enabled you to utilize capacity at the park and elsewhere. Being able to be at the pool, or Blizzard Beach or Disney Springs increased the crowding at those places. FastPass was first implemented specifically to give people more time to shop and eat, but more people shopping and eating without more places to do that just means more crowds and long waits at those places.

There is a reason Universal abandoned their grand plans for virtual queues, because they blew up spectacularly at Volcano Bay.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Let me make this clear: you do not get to dictate that I don’t enjoy the parks, or that the way that I experience them is somehow wrong or “perverse,” or that there is something wrong with me (or other posters) because we are able to engage with Disney critically while also enjoying many elements of it.
Please reread my post, which you have clearly misunderstood. It’s not your views or experiences of the parks that I consider perverse—on the contrary, I’ve stated multiple times that we are all entitled to our own preferences—but rather the practice of dogmatically insisting that others must be mistaken to feel as they do. Respectful or productive discussion is simply impossible when such zealotry is at play.
 
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pdude81

Well-Known Member
Yikes. I’m going to be there and Nov. first through the fifth. Wonder what it will be like then… I planned our trip not realizing that the marathon was going to start at the end of our visit. Rearranged some park days and I’m planning extra travel time in the morning. Will definitely use genie+ on the day of the marathon because I’m expecting big crowds based on what everyone says about these events.
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