Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[DisneyCane]

Have to subscribe to Disney mobile

You mean Disney Mobile+. Gotta get the branding right!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But they can't get you to pay the $24 if they don't get you in the park. That's what I don't get about the lack of any Florida or DVC discount on the Incredipass. Unless, of course, they just assume everybody will eat the increases and they can run promos later if they don't sell well.

Again, this is just my thinking and no data behind it, but for me and I assume many others the lower cost on re-entry has me adding trips, park days, TS dining, special events, etc. If I also have to throw another 5 hundo a person on top for Christmas week I may as well fly to Jamaica and have Santa zoom in on water skis to give kids presents.

The Bobs consider annual passes “lost revenue”

they probably have a point and yet are completely stupid.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, technically that would be the case anyways for those two rides, right? If you don't get a boarding pass, you are out of luck.

I'm just stressed because this will all be starting right before our trip and I have so many questions!!!

…you’ll figure it out the next time in 3 months

 

[rkleinlein]

Oh look: another professional looking Lightning Lane sign.

What a HALF-A$$ED job. What an embarrassment.

I sure hope I'm wrong, but given the sloppy design (architecture, interior decor, theming, signage, etc.) that now characterizes WDW, I will not be surprised if the sloppily camouflaged Fast Pass lettering just stays visible for the long term. Why bother at this point?

This is an overreaction of the highest order. These things are a work in progress with a temporary quick fix in place. They’re the signage equivalent of the rolling topiaries used to hide construction. Also, as has already been pointed out, Under the Sea’s sign uses the same font as before.

I understand how you think this could be an overreaction about signage. Some people could care less about or barely notice art, architecture, and design aesthetics. But some of us care a lot and notice very much.

Still, the broader point of my post is that sloppy, cheap, and tacky work (e.g. on signs or menus) is part of a larger trend of poor design and aesthetics that is now being spewed out, again and again, at Walt Disney World.

The company that once gave us visionary designs like the Contemporary, Space Mountain, and Spaceship Earth now gives us catastrophes like the Riviera, Guardians, the France expansion, and Harmonious, to name but a few of many examples.

The company that once had their signs praised in Architectural Record now just slaps overlays on outdated signs and seems not to care if old lettering remains visible. The signs at Wal-Mart and Dollar General look better than this.

Even if temporary, it would not have been difficult to simply cut a board into a trapezoid shape and screw it onto the existing sign so the old Fastpass lettering could not be seen. Signs are different from construction which can be hidden or screened by foliage. You shouldn't just camouflage old signs; you should completely cover or replace them--even if temporary--especially if you do such a laughably poor job of camouflaging. And especially if it's an in-your-face reminder that what used to be free is now an additional charge.

And I hope you're right that this is temporary. But given that most of the other Lightning Lane signs seem to be permanent, I wouldn't be surprised if this was permanent as well.

 

[dreday3]

…you’ll figure it out the next time in 3 months

You've confused me with yourself I think.

We haven't been in 4 years and likely not to go again for another few. Try again later maybe?

 

[havoc315]

I believe everyone is speculating but basing this on some of the prices from Disney Paris. What is problematic for me is the fact that if you don't get a boarding pass for the two rides requiring a pass, you won't be able to ride unless you pay. Early or late EMH or Rope Drop will not get you onto those rides.

Maybe. We really don't know yet. While ROTR, pre-pandemic, was not open during EMH, it was when the ride was brand new and breaking down every 10 seconds. Especially with Ratatouille, I could easily see it opening up a standby line during extended evening hours, when crowds are very low.
I also suspect boarding groups at the Rat will be far more temporary than ROTR -- It's a way of managing the ride when demand greatly surpasses capacity, but the Rat isn't ROTR. I suspect demand will fall off after the first couple of months and especially after the GOTG coaster opens. At the latest, I'd expect GOTG to open with boarding groups and the Rat to switch to normal standby, by then.

Of course -- What you identify as "problematic" is actually an improvement over the current system.
Under the current system, if you don't get a boarding group, you can't ride -- AT ALL. No option to pay to get a spot. No alternatives whatsoever. Thus, this is still overall an improvement -- anyone willing to pay can get a ride, even if they can't get a boarding group. (the price will be adjusted to a point where everyone who is willing to pay the price, can be guaranteed a ride. As to what percentage goes to "free" boarding groups, that remains to be seen and I suspect it will depend on the demand for the pay lanes. They won't waste significant capacity. If only 1,000 guests per day are willing to pay $20 per person, then 15,000 spots (or whatever) will go to free BGs, while if 10,000 people rush to click the pay option, it's possible only 6,000 BGs get distributed for "free." (I'm estimating capacity of 16,000 per day, a rough estimate).

 

[havoc315]

Not really. Disney's hotel occupancy rate is genuinely well above hotel occupancy rates at other Orlando area hotels. If you compare what Disney reports as "available room nights" with maximum room nights, these 2 numbers are off by a very small number.

For example, for fiscal 2019, Disney reported a hotel occupancy rate of 90% based on 10,030,000 available room-nights. That's 27,479 room-nights per day. Adding up the rooms available at all Disney hotels and timeshares, the number is 27,675. Having only 0.7% of rooms out of service each night is a very good number.

An argument could be made that DVC rooms should not be counted. After all, these are timeshares whose occupancy is almost guaranteed. (DVC members have to use their points or lose them.) But since there are only 5339 DVC rooms, and since Disney hotel occupancy is so high, this affects the overall occupancy by only a percent or so.

Disney's biggest problem is filling rooms on Mondays and Tuesdays. Guest tend to come either for week-long stays or arrive on Wednesday/Thursday for a long weekend. This means that a disproportionate number of rooms are empty on those nights.

But there is another issue with DVC --- When occupancy has fallen at some properties, they convert the rooms to DVC, to drive up the occupancy numbers.
As they are now doing with 200 rooms at Grand Floridian, which will have the effect of driving up the occupancy figures there.

 

[monothingie]

Not really. Disney's hotel occupancy rate is genuinely well above hotel occupancy rates at other Orlando area hotels. If you compare what Disney reports as "available room nights" with maximum room nights, these 2 numbers are off by a very small number.

For example, for fiscal 2019, Disney reported a hotel occupancy rate of 90% based on 10,030,000 available room-nights. That's 27,479 room-nights per day. Adding up the rooms available at all Disney hotels and timeshares, the number is 27,675. Having only 0.7% of rooms out of service each night is a very good number.

The key number is the available room nights. Not taking into account the changes caused by the pandemic, but prior to that, Disney would routinely manipulate the actual number of rooms available. This could boil down to everything from construction to saving on operational costs. It was fairly common to see the poorer performing resorts (GF, AKL, etc) routinely lockout and shutdown sections of the resorts due to them being empty.

 

[ToTBellHop]

But there is another issue with DVC --- When occupancy has fallen at some properties, they convert the rooms to DVC, to drive up the occupancy numbers.
As they are now doing with 200 rooms at Grand Floridian, which will have the effect of driving up the occupancy figures there.

Occupancy and room rates rise; need for discounts falls. We see this at Wilderness Lodge. I suppose it is clever.

 

[lebeau]

But they can’t install new ride systems without Disney approval…or a restaurant…or really anything.

good luck with that

I don't want to sidetrack the whole conversation but Marvel is very limited in terms of what they can reject. Universal can do anything that doesn't present their characters in a way contrary to the way they are portrayed in the comics. For example, they couldn't make Captain America an agent of Hydra..... mmmm.... oh wait. Well, they definitely can't show the Punisher as an avenging supernatural being.... hmmm.... actually there is very little they can't do.

If Marvel rejects any proposal, the dispute goes to arbitration where an impartial panel will decide whether or not the terms of the contract have been violated. If Marvel tries to shut down perfectly reasonable proposals just to prevent Universal from updating their land (in complete violation of the terms of the contract), well, as you say, good luck with that.

Whenever Marvel has “reasonable” rights for rejection of approval hereunder, the basic criteria to be used by Marvel may include inconsistency with (i) basic story line, (ii) the powers, (iii) basic personality traits, (iv) physical appearance (including clothing or costume), and/or (v) living habitat or environment relating to such character as portrayed in Marvel’s exploitation of such character in comic books or other products for the particular time period being depicted by MCA.

In the event any dispute, claim or difference arises out of this Agreement as to the rights and liabilities of the parties hereunder, the breach or invalidity of any covenants hereunder or in connection with the construction of this Agreement (each such event, a “Dispute”), the parties shall settle the Dispute by binding arbitration. Except as otherwise specifically provided in this Section J, the arbitration shall be conducted in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association in effect as of the date of commencement of the arbitration. The arbitration shall be held in New York, New York, unless the parties mutually agree to have the arbitration held elsewhere.​

 

[ThistleMae]

Well, technically that would be the case anyways for those two rides, right? If you don't get a boarding pass, you are out of luck.

I'm just stressed because this will all be starting right before our trip and I have so many questions!!!

I'm sure everyone in here is anxious to get exact information before their trips as well. It is stressful!

 

[GimpYancIent]

Yes but there is a difference between shutting down sections to reduce costs and shutting down sections to manipulate hotel occupancy rate.

Lots of hotels close (for example) floors during slow seasons to reduce costs.

Per industry standards, a room is considered unavailable if it's out-of-service for 6 or more months. Disney is not claiming the sections that it shuts down are unavailable. Disney is not closing sections to manipulate the occupancy rate. Instead, Disney is doing this to reduce costs.

How about, all of the above? The commonality to it all is $$$$$.

 

[ParentsOf4]

How about, all of the above? The commonality to it all is $$$$$.

This thread is about Genie+. (Sorry for the thread drift.)

Genie+ is not about improving Guest satisfaction. It’s about getting Guests to pay more $$$$$ for improved satisfaction.

 

[GimpYancIent]

This thread is about Genie+. (Sorry for the thread drift.)

Genie+ is not about improving Guest satisfaction. It’s about getting Guests to pay more $$$$$ for improved satisfaction.

There you go! Correct! not about Guest Satisfaction! Yes! getting guests to pay more $$$$$$$. Definitely not about improved satisfaction.

 

[matt9112]

Occupancy and room rates rise; need for discounts falls. We see this at Wilderness Lodge. I suppose it is clever.

How on earth do people still sign up for DVC...like even if your wealthy...dont wealthy people see value differently? IE often very calculated.

 

[ToTBellHop]

How on earth do people still sign up for DVC...like even if your wealthy...dont wealthy people see value differently? IE often very calculated.

We bought our first resale back when you could book anywhere and still got a blue card. $80/point. I don’t know why anyone would buy a new contract direct from Disney.

 

[ChrisM]

This thread is about Genie+. (Sorry for the thread drift.)

Genie+ is not about improving Guest satisfaction. It’s about getting Guests to pay more $$$$$ for improved satisfaction.

Although possibly tongue in cheek, that's actually very true.

The "problem" previously was there was effectively no way to buy your way convenience except for VIP Tours - which for certain guests was either too much of a spend or too much hand holding. This at least offers some sort of middle ground.

 

[LovePop]

The Bobs consider annual passes “lost revenue”

If that's the case, why don't they charge more until it isn't lost revenue? Like right now, the AP for Florida residents is $400 per person. That's about half what I pay for a 10 day pass! It makes me want to move to Orlando, get the pass, and take the family to Disney every day! (The pass is blocked when the parks are full, but that's great for me. It's not like I want to be in a packed park when I can go everyday anyway.)

I'm all for Disney charging everything they can get. I just hope that they can get it.

 

[GimpYancIent]

If that's the case, why don't they charge more until it isn't lost revenue? Like right now, the AP for Florida residents is $400 per person. That's about half what I pay for a 10 day pass! It makes me want to move to Orlando, get the pass, and take the family to Disney every day! (The pass is blocked when the parks are full, but that's great for me. It's not like I want to be in a packed park when I can go everyday anyway.)

I'm all for Disney charging everything they can get. I just hope that they can get it.

Fair! Get what can be gotten while the getting is good. Then brace for the lean times, they are coming.

 

[ToTBellHop]

If that's the case, why don't they charge more until it isn't lost revenue? Like right now, the AP for Florida residents is $400 per person. That's about half what I pay for a 10 day pass! It makes me want to move to Orlando, get the pass, and take the family to Disney every day! (The pass is blocked when the parks are full, but that's great for me. It's not like I want to be in a packed park when I can go everyday anyway.)

I'm all for Disney charging everything they can get. I just hope that they can get it.

They have significantly risen AP prices over the years, but you can only take things so far. They can’t charge $3000 for an Incredi-Pass for at least…two years.