Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Tha Realest]

I get that. But here is the irony -- If it "fails" as you suggest-- if almost nobody buys it, then it's a huge win for those willing to buy it. The low demand will keep the prices of G+/LL low, it will insure tons of G+/LL availability, so that those willing to pay even a small upcharge will get any ride they want on demand.

I'm fine with that. I want the bean counters and strategic planners that pushed this to lose their jobs though

 

[lightningtap347]

I'm still surprised they renamed branding that I believe had become iconic/synonymous with WDW. Not to mention, the new branding is completely inferior, and invokes Six Flags' Flash Pass, while being a worse overall service.

 

[JAB]

Exactly.

As an example, even though it was pre-Genie+, Disney's failure to restore perks for onsite stays (and its failure to complete construction projects at our intended resort in a timely manner) meant that we canceled a $4,200 room-and-ticket package at the Polynesian ($4,200 paid to Disney, but refunded in full when we canceled) for last month, in favor of a stay at the Dolphin with tickets purchased from an authorized reseller (of which less than $2,000 made its way to Disney from the ticket purchase).

Bottom line: thanks to Disney giving us no incentives to stay onsite last time, we saved over $600 on our trip cost, and Disney lost over $2,200 of our money. If Genie+ becomes a "must have" for short lines, Disney will lose even more: if we opt to pay for the add-on, we'll also drop days from our trips and remain offsite. So I guess if you look at it that way, it's potentially a win for us...

The Dolphin isn't exactly "offsite," though. Swan/Dolphin are physically located on Disney property, within walking distance of DHS and Epcot, they get pretty much all of the benefits of an on-property Deluxe resort (and they had Disney-run transportation pre-pandemic), and Disney does get a cut of their revenue.

That being said, Disney is still getting significantly less of your money, and I think you make a good point about people paying for Genie+ by cutting costs elsewhere.

Disney execs seem to be making the assumption that people are going to spend more for Genie+ on top of whatever they were already planning to spend. However, at least for us, that's not the case. Our trips have a set budget, so if we do choose to purchase Genie+ for our upcoming trip, we'll just reallocate the cost from somewhere else in the budget. Disney won't get more money from us by charging us for Genie+ because we'll just spend less on other things.

 

[MrPromey]

Because we already know no one needs more than three days in uni per trip. They could give away days 4-10 because people wouldn’t use ‘em.

I think Disney sees that too.

If people were able to get more done in a day, they might be inclined to spend a little less time on the Mouse's doorstep.

Let's look at something important inherent in your statement:

"If successful"... "if they sell briskly"

The argument about G+/LL from many people keeps making two contradictory assumptions:
1 -- It's way too expensive, $100 for a family of 4 for a 4-minute experience!
2 -- Everyone will buy it!

Even if the day of free paper FP, not everyone went through the hassle of grabbing a FP and returning later.. plenty of people just got on the 30-60 minute standby line, despite the availability of free fastpasses.

It is indeed pretty expensive for a short duration ride, especially for larger families. There will indeed be free spenders who have no hesitation to spend $100 to skip a 20 minute line.
But most people will look at the line, look at the value of the ride, look at the value of skipping the line...

What this all means: "If they sell briskly" -- It means that lots of people find it fairly priced. Frankly, if it wasn't worth the price, few people would buy it.
And if it is indeed vastly overpriced, then there will be very few takers.

In my example, I use a family of four because there is one person who has to consider paying that cost for their whole group which is where my $100 example comes from. At that $100 dollars, if it's your credit card, you're going to feel it.

If you're single and there with a friend and only paying for yourself, it's only a $25 charge, which is still ridiculous but won't feel as bad so I do think there is a segment that will use this.

That said, briskly itself is a matter of opinion. What you consider brisk and what I consider brisk are probably a little different and for Disney, I'm sure a decision on that would be entirely based on revenue rather than experience so if they are making good money off it, they'll continue to increase the price until they hit that point where they make less and stop.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Because we already know no one needs more than three days in uni per trip. They could give away days 4-10 because people wouldn’t use ‘em.

I - and some other people, I assume - actually LIKE just being at Uni, the same way I used to like just being at WDW. A lot of the posts about “there’s nothing to do at Uni after day three” assume it’s not just a place to hang out, but then turn around and assume WDW is. You could blitz WDW the same way folks seem to blitz Uni - except for MK, the parks at WDW have fewer rides then those at Uni. And with lower prices, better service, better maintenance, much more reasonable crowds, and no grim reminders of how much better things used to be, Uni is just overwhelmingly more pleasant to simply spend time at then WDW.

 

[rkleinlein]

Do you have a link to the new menu?

This is the menu for the crēpe (sic) restaurant I referred to. "Fixe" is misspelled and every single accent is wrong. Every single one. Some accents are missing all together. Then there's the change of price. Classy and professional, non?

 

[LittleBuford]

This is the menu for the crēpe (sic) restaurant I referred to. "Fixe" is misspelled and every single accent is wrong. Every single one. Some accents are missing all together. Then there's the change of price. Classy and professional, non?
View attachment 584295

The backwards Arabic at the Morocco pavilion also falls into the inexcusable category.

 

[flynnibus]

I think Disney sees that too.

If people were able to get more done in a day, they might be inclined to spend a little less time on the Mouse's doorstep.

I think that's the opposite of what Disney wants.. and I mentioned it way back earlier in the thread. Disney won't want 'commando paid mode' to result in people making shorter trips. Disney wants those bodies on site. Yes, there is a gradient between someone who has less funds remaining vs someone with freshly stocked wallets so you don't want people OVERstaying their time... but Disney also doesn't want to become a 2-3day wonder. There is a balance point between length of stay and optimizing spend. Disney wants all your dollars... not for you to spend 2-3 days and then go spend elsewhere.

The uni comparison from the other poster is also just a really bad one. UNI doesn't have the product to support a 5-10 day trip and their pricing model reflects that. It's also why they've been adding parks and not just making their existing parks 'better'. So pointing out UNI's ticket model vs Disney's is very much apples and oranges. And I love people that use one price to justify the other... the prices have been artifically linked for ages. Disney would raise prices, and UNI would slide in right behind them just because they could. It's only been recent years where UNI was bold enough to stop following Disney's price points and instead venture out in front of Disney.

 

[havoc315]

FoP with all effects working is the only ride at WDW that might be worth a 3 hour line. Maybe. Original, non bendy Soarin' and Splash are worth 2 hours. Nothing else is worth more than an hour nor worth $25.

Unless I’m getting on a real spaceship and going to the real Pandora… I wouldn’t wait 3 hours. But that’s just me.

My rule of thumb at Disney has always been:
- something novel and popular, may wait up to 1 hour 1 time, to try it out.
- a ride I love but have done before — May wait no more than 30-45 minutes (FOP, Splash, etc)
- A ride I really like, I can wait 20-30 minutes — Peter Pan, Pirates, Safari
-something to pass the time- 0-10 minutes — Little Mermaid, Small World, Dinosaur

 

[Hawg G]

Because we already know no one needs more than three days in uni per trip. They could give away days 4-10 because people wouldn’t use ‘em.

Because we already know no one needs more than three days in uni per trip. They could give away days 4-10 because people wouldn’t use ‘em.

I'm about to do my 4th visit with the Season Passes since buying last October. Many days for like $330.

What is rerideable so much at WDW? Or do people go there so many days because they wait 60 minutes for a 2 minute long, 50 year old dark ride?

 

[flynnibus]

I'm about to do my 4th visit with the Season Passes since buying last October. Many days for like $330.

What is rerideable so much at WDW? Or do people go there so many days because they wait 60 minutes for a 2 minute king, 50 year old dark ride?

You are mixing topics. You are talking about returning for multiple visits vs a LENGTH OF STAY. Your comment was about ticket prices after number of days - UNI tickets expire after first use, so multi-day tickets are for all intents, single visit tickets.

Exclude re-reriding at all and one does all they are interested in at UNI in 3 days or less.
WDW includes more experiences, more things to do, more entertainment options, that it typically takes longer to experience up to a person's capacity, let alone 'seeing all there is'.

It's not about 're-rides' - it literally is just a longer list of entertainment, activities, and the time needed to see it all. IE simply, you can't see the night-time fireworks at three parks in one day.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You are mixing topics. You are talking about returning for multiple visits vs a LENGTH OF STAY. Your comment was about ticket prices after number of days - UNI tickets expire after first use, so multi-day tickets are for all intents, single visit tickets.

Exclude re-reriding at all and one does all they are interested in at UNI in 3 days or less.
WDW includes more experiences, more things to do, more entertainment options, that it typically takes longer to experience up to a person's capacity, let alone 'seeing all there is'.

It's not about 're-rides' - it literally is just a longer list of entertainment, activities, and the time needed to see it all. IE simply, you can't see the night-time fireworks at three parks in one day.

A lot of the reason it takes longer at Disney is massive crowds and intentionally inefficient operations.

And again, people don’t go to WDW OR Uni just to blitz through the rides. That simply isn’t how a lot of folks behave.

 

[Ayla]

This is the menu for the crēpe (sic) restaurant I referred to. "Fixe" is misspelled and every single accent is wrong. Every single one. Some accents are missing all together. Then there's the change of price. Classy and professional, non?
View attachment 584295

I don't speak French, so I will take your word on it being incorrect. I noticed the whited-out price immediately. I mean, c'mon Disney, really?

 

[flynnibus]

A lot of the reason it takes longer at Disney is massive crowds and intentionally inefficient operations.

Building two parks instead of one is not 'inefficient operations' - It is product strategy. Yes, Disney is not incentivized to ensure you have the most efficient level of movement... but that is not even in the same league as inferring people need more days because of low staffing or artificially boosting crowd/contention.

These topics have overlap, but people are trying to draw false correlations/motivations from that overlap.

Bean counters aren't scheming "if we cut 10% of the labor force we'll get 2 more booked nights out of every guest!".

But conversely, no park operator wants you to finish everything to do in their park in 5hrs either... and that doesn't necessarily mean 'double your attractions' -- There is a balancing act in design in how long an attraction should take to experience for the guest. And not just within the core ride.

 

[Patcheslee]

My my my my .. what a nice park day you have here .. would be a shame to spend most of it in standby lines... let me make you an offer you don't want to refuse

I think in images, and this was the character that came to mind

 

[Casper Gutman]

Building two parks instead of one is not 'inefficient operations' - It is product strategy. Yes, Disney is not incentivized to ensure you have the most efficient level of movement... but that is not even in the same league as inferring people need more days because of low staffing or artificially boosting crowd/contention.

These topics have overlap, but people are trying to draw false correlations/motivations from that overlap.

Bean counters aren't scheming "if we cut 10% of the labor force we'll get 2 more booked nights out of every guest!".

But conversely, no park operator wants you to finish everything to do in their park in 5hrs either... and that doesn't necessarily mean 'double your attractions' -- There is a balancing act in design in how long an attraction should take to experience for the guest. And not just within the core ride.

I don’t even know what you’re arguing against here, because it isn’t anything I said. WDW reduces staffing and runs rides at lower capacity to cut costs. The negative impact on guest experience is something they don’t particularly care about and that may actually help them encourage guests to stay longer. The upshot is still a diminished, artificially prolonged experience for guests.

 

[peter11435]

I don’t even know what you’re arguing against here, because it isn’t anything I said. WDW reduces staffing and runs rides at lower capacity to cut costs. The negative impact on guest experience is something they don’t particularly care about and that may actually help them encourage guests to stay longer. The upshot is still a diminished, artificially prolonged experience for guests.

WDW does cut staffing and reduce capacity to cut costs. However they do this based on expected attendance. If they anticipate low crowds and low demand they operate with lower staffing and lower capacities. They do not do this with the intent of prolonging the guests experience or artificially inflating wait times. The impact on the guest experience is something they actually do care about and heavily analyze. If attendance/demand is higher than anticipated they will do everything they can to increase staffing/capacity to meet that demand.

 

[Hawg G]

You are mixing topics. You are talking about returning for multiple visits vs a LENGTH OF STAY. Your comment was about ticket prices after number of days - UNI tickets expire after first use, so multi-day tickets are for all intents, single visit tickets.

Exclude re-reriding at all and one does all they are interested in at UNI in 3 days or less.
WDW includes more experiences, more things to do, more entertainment options, that it typically takes longer to experience up to a person's capacity, let alone 'seeing all there is'.

It's not about 're-rides' - it literally is just a longer list of entertainment, activities, and the time needed to see it all. IE simply, you can't see the night-time fireworks at three parks in one day.

But the Uni pass is like ONE FOURTH the price of a Disney one.

And right now, Disney doesn’t offer crap extra. They have fireworks again, Uni had them months ago.

Magic Kingdoms last E ticket was SPLaSH MOUNTAIN! And Tron isn’t one, and is such a theming fail, the fact they cloned it to put right next to another roller coaster in a box speaks volumes about Imagineering outside RotR.

 

[rkleinlein]

I don't speak French, so I will take your word on it being incorrect. I noticed the whited-out price immediately. I mean, c'mon Disney, really?

I'm by no means fluent but anyone with even a cursory knowledge of French will see that all the accents are wrong and "fixe" is misspelled. And everyone can see the sloppy price change.

fixe not fix
crêpes not crēpes
entrées not entrėes
sélection not selection
salé not salė
chèvre not chėvre

 

[peter11435]

But the Uni pass is like ONE FOURTH the price of a Disney one.

And right now, Disney doesn’t offer crap extra. They have fireworks again, Uni had them months ago.

Magic Kingdoms last E ticket was SPLaSH MOUNTAIN! And Tron isn’t one, and is such a theming fail, the fact they cloned it to put right next to another roller coaster in a box speaks volumes about Imagineering outside RotR.

One fourth? I think your math is a bit off.

Your opinion is that Tron is not at E-ticket?