Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[havoc315]

If you look at what you're actually getting for that $100, the value just isn't there in a per-attraction fee.

Break everything down in a Disney trip, and it's easy to say NONE of it is worthwhile.

Are park hoppers for a family really worth hundreds of dollars, just so you can run from park to park in the same day?
Are deluxe resorts really worth 3-5x the price of higher quality off property resorts?

 

[Tha Realest]

That's dynamic pricing.
But "desperate" just is a valuation of supply and demand. Am I "desperate" enough to stand in a 2 hour line -- ie, is it worth 2 hours of my time? Am I "desperate" enough to spend a larger amount of money to skip the 2 hour line? (are 2 hours of my time plus the ride worth $xxx)
It's not desperation, it's reasoned decision making. Skipping a 2 hour line is more valuable to me than skipping a 15 minute line.


Or, I'll speak from experience -- When there is a 2 hour line, I shrug and skip the attraction. Because I'm never that "desperate" for a 5-minute theme park ride.

I so want this to fail. I want all of their projections on ROI to be off by like 90%. I want these hundreds of millions of spending in anticipated earnings to be a colossal, huge loss and albatross on the company. It's infuriating.

 

[flynnibus]

If you look at what you're actually getting for that $100, the value just isn't there in a per-attraction fee.

Again value is hard to apply uniformly because it is a perception.

you can also think of it as an opportunity loss/gain. Spending 3hrs doing one thing… verse gaining 4-5 other things if you did have the line skip….

emotionally most people will likely see it as a line skip… not paying for the ride. If they don’t think the ride is ‘worth the cost’… they are likely to skip the ride period

 

[havoc315]

I so want this to fail. I want all of their projections on ROI to be off by like 90%. I want these hundreds of millions of spending in anticipated earnings to be a colossal, huge loss and albatross on the company. It's infuriating.

I get that. But here is the irony -- If it "fails" as you suggest-- if almost nobody buys it, then it's a huge win for those willing to buy it. The low demand will keep the prices of G+/LL low, it will insure tons of G+/LL availability, so that those willing to pay even a small upcharge will get any ride they want on demand.

 

[DisneyCane]

Ehh. Which rides are 3 hour waits now? Not FoP.

None currently. Pre-COVID it was.

SDMT I honestly wouldn't wait more than 5 minutes for yet people are going to PAY to ride it.

 

[Weather_Lady]

Vote with your wallets.

There is an erroneous assumption by Disney that people's vacation budgets have increased dramatically. It won't take too long for people to realize how much value they're getting and make different choices. If I have $5K for a vacation, I'll get a cheaper hotel room, get a rental car and pay for front of the line access. Disney will be getting a small percentage of that $5K than they were previously getting. Mission accomplished.

Exactly.

As an example, even though it was pre-Genie+, Disney's failure to restore perks for onsite stays (and its failure to complete construction projects at our intended resort in a timely manner) meant that we canceled a $4,200 room-and-ticket package at the Polynesian ($4,200 paid to Disney, but refunded in full when we canceled) for last month, in favor of a stay at the Dolphin with tickets purchased from an authorized reseller (of which less than $2,000 made its way to Disney from the ticket purchase).

Bottom line: thanks to Disney giving us no incentives to stay onsite last time, we saved over $600 on our trip cost, and Disney lost over $2,200 of our money. If Genie+ becomes a "must have" for short lines, Disney will lose even more: if we opt to pay for the add-on, we'll also drop days from our trips and remain offsite. So I guess if you look at it that way, it's potentially a win for us...

 

[havoc315]

Again value is hard to apply uniformly because it is a perception.

you can also think of it as an opportunity loss/gain. Spending 3hrs doing one thing… verse gaining 4-5 other things if you did have the line skip….

emotionally most people will likely see it as a line skip… not paying for the ride. If they don’t think the ride is ‘worth the cost’… they are likely to skip the ride period

The value of a line skip itself is very subjective. In fact, it can be very individualized based on how someone values their own time.

Take someone who earns $20 per hour in their career: Paying $20 to skip a 1 hour line, working 1 hour just to skip a 1 hour line, might seem to be a poor proposition. Then compare it to someone who is used to earning over $100 per hour... Paying $20 to skip an hour long line might seem like a no-brainer, like paying the toll on the bridge on their way to work.

Probably more than most things, the value of time is very subjective. We might all come to a similar value when appraising how much a steak should cost, or even form a consensus on a reasonable price for a hotel room, but we all value time very differently.

 

[Andrew C]

None currently. Pre-COVID it was.

SDMT I honestly wouldn't wait more than 5 minutes for yet people are going to PAY to ride it.

Hopefully not too many do and that gets the prices lower. Standby will exist. That’s my plan. I may do genie+ for a day or two to gain quicker access to the tier 2 rides. But not everyday of a trip.

 

[Patcheslee]

That's the point a lot of people are making ~ there was no reason for the stickers since it won't be going live for a while, unless they are permanent.

The positive to the stickers is the public will know sooner which attractions will be included. We've only had confirmation on what the released intro video and blog has given us.

 

[flynnibus]

The value of a line skip itself is very subjective. In fact, it can be very individualized based on how someone values their own time.

Take someone who earns $20 per hour in their career: Paying $20 to skip a 1 hour line, working 1 hour just to skip a 1 hour line, might seem to be a poor proposition. Then compare it to someone who is used to earning over $100 per hour... Paying $20 to skip an hour long line might seem like a no-brainer, like paying the toll on the bridge on their way to work.

Probably more than most things, the value of time is very subjective. We might all come to a similar value when appraising how much a steak should cost, or even form a consensus on a reasonable price for a hotel room, but we all value time very differently.

like i said… perception (aka in the eye of ghe beholder)

but let’s not forget - people are on vacation— they are not deciding which job gives the best roi or value, etc. They have already decided to be in WDW. They’ve committed… so now they will focus on making the most of this trip. prime factors people are coping with while on vacation are TIME and OPPORTUNITY.

They know they are only in this park a finite amount of time. They have limited time and opportunity to do things.

It is the same reason why people are willing to pay higher prices for things they know they pay less elsewhere.

So waste… becomes more ‘expensive’ and concerning for people then ‘value’. Waste costs you both what you did and what you didn’t do instead….

 

[peter11435]

That's the point a lot of people are making ~ there was no reason for the stickers since it won't be going live for a while, unless they are permanent.

It will be going live sooner than you seem to think. Not September, but still sooner than they could permanently replace all signage. The stickers won’t be permanent

 

[DisneyCane]

like i said… perception (aka in the eye of ghe beholder)

but let’s not forget - people are on vacation— they are not deciding which job gives the best roi or value, etc. They have already decided to be in WDW. They’ve committed… so now they will focus on making the most of this trip. prime factors people are coping with while on vacation are TIME and OPPORTUNITY.

They know they are only in this park a finite amount of time. They have limited time and opportunity to do things.

It is the same reason why people are willing to pay higher prices for things they know they pay less elsewhere.

So waste… becomes more ‘expensive’ and concerning for people then ‘value’. Waste costs you both what you did and what you didn’t do instead….

Very true. You can eat for less (sometimes a lot less) a few miles off site but to do that you need to take the time to go somewhere else.

 

[Casper Gutman]

So… I think it’s safe to assume that during busy periods, the cost of bypassing a line will increase noticeably - dynamic pricing and all that. Will they be bold enough to do that for the 2021 holidays, or wait until summer 2022 or later?

Also, mention here about the parks being less crowded due to Covid got me wondering… I believe WDW sees the pandemic as an opportunity in a lot of ways, to delay cap ex, cut services, jack up prices, etc. But it’s also been a dramatic break in everyone’s routine, a moment when habits are halted and, possibly, reevaluated. Is this really the wisest moment for WDW to be rolling out all sorts of unpopular programs? Wouldn’t it be better to let people slip back into old patterns of consumption with the least introspection possible before raising prices way up?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

think of how many different types of signs there are when you think of basically every attraction on the entire property. All the different materials, all the different finishes, etc. many of those could have very different lead times.

then think about all those signs that don’t have a purpose anymore… and what redesigns will need to be done.

This kind of solution establishes a quick, uniform look… allowing you the ability to do the bigger jobs that will likely be more spit and spurt in execution delivery

All it takes is simple planning.

They could have used an inexpensive substrate to avoid looking lazy and achieved a quick, uniform look. It's more difficult applying decals outdoors than it is to apply them to a substrate in the shop and then apply the substrate in the field.

 

[dolbyman]

It's still paying $100 for a 4 minute distraction. Disney wants you to find reasons to rationalize that kind of spending.

My my my my .. what a nice park day you have here .. would be a shame to spend most of it in standby lines... let me make you an offer you don't want to refuse

 

[flynnibus]

All it takes is simple planning.

They could have used an inexpensive substrate to avoid looking lazy and achieved a quick, uniform look. It's more difficult applying decals outdoors than it is to apply them to a substrate in the shop and then apply the substrate in the field.

Still a temporary sign…. Or a sign that looks modified.

which is the complaint- that they weren’t changing the actual sign… to which i say ‘wait and see…’

 

[lazyboy97o]

think of how many different types of signs there are when you think of basically every attraction on the entire property. All the different materials, all the different finishes, etc. many of those could have very different lead times.

then think about all those signs that don’t have a purpose anymore… and what redesigns will need to be done.

This kind of solution establishes a quick, uniform look… allowing you the ability to do the bigger jobs that will likely be more spit and spurt in execution delivery

It also allows Disney to drag their feet on committing to the branding. The sign shop could have been working on these with temporary solutions reserved for those that do need a longer lead time.

Still a temporary sign…. Or a sign that looks modified.

which is the complaint- that they weren’t changing the actual sign… to which i say ‘wait and see…’

It depends on how you do it.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Still a temporary sign…. Or a sign that looks modified.

which is the complaint- that they weren’t changing the actual sign… to which i say ‘wait and see…’

A temporary sign looks miles better than a decal through which you can see the impressions of the old decals. For Jungle Cruise, for example, just cut the temporary overlay to the same shape as the Fastpass sign it's covering up. You can even use printed vinyl to match the colors of the existing sign.

Trust me...I've been in the sign business for decades and done signage for multi-building complexes that included everything from 8' tall lettering on the building all the way down to fire extinguisher labeling and egress signage...there have been many times we've needed to use temporary replacements until final signage could be finished when new owners took over or what have you. The only thing that makes things slightly more complicated for WDW is each building having it's own theme and design, but that's easy to account for during design and production.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Exactly.

As an example, even though it was pre-Genie+, Disney's failure to restore perks for onsite stays (and its failure to complete construction projects at our intended resort in a timely manner) meant that we canceled a $4,200 room-and-ticket package at the Polynesian ($4,200 paid to Disney, but refunded in full when we canceled) for last month, in favor of a stay at the Dolphin with tickets purchased from an authorized reseller (of which less than $2,000 made its way to Disney from the ticket purchase).

Bottom line: thanks to Disney giving us no incentives to stay onsite last time, we saved over $600 on our trip cost, and Disney lost over $2,200 of our money. If Genie+ becomes a "must have" for short lines, Disney will lose even more: if we opt to pay for the add-on, we'll also drop days from our trips and remain offsite. So I guess if you look at it that way, it's potentially a win for us...

I haven't stayed on property in 10 years. I've had 16 trips since then and stayed at Universal at least twice (I believe there is a 3rd trip in there but I can't find the details).

 

[flynnibus]

It also allows Disney to drag their feet on committing to the branding

I've already commented on their crappy name choices of late... should be no suprise after their choice of annual marketing slogans over the last 10 years.. but I still wouldn't let a sign shop need (which has alternatives) drive the larger business. The execution had alternatives...