Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[flynnibus]

I do not feel sorry for any Disney employee involved with the conception, development and implementation of Genie, Genie + / LL's. It is poorly conceived, badly developed and ill timed for release. Despite all the colorful rhetoric and wishful comments of some posters for Genie the vast majority of comments from the vast majority of people are all negative. Yes the folks involved had one thing in mind come up with a scheme to skim a few more dollars off the guests and make it look like the guests were getting something in return. Such a mind set needs to be rewarded by allowing those involved to find employment else where.

Yes... you are the 99%... keep beating that drum.

Down with evil!

Off with their heads!

*rolleyes*

 

[jpinkc]

I got that same impression when they didn’t limit the Genie+ somehow. I know they limited the individual passes, buts who’s to say an absurd amount of people wont purchase genie+ on a busy day. At the of they day it’s just math for the three lines G+ll+s= Line throughput and they have to make the call on which one goes first.

Yeah I think thats what will happen too. Everyone and there dog will buy it, and then these G+ line skips will have lines as long as regular standby. Or they will all be gone by Noon everyday

 

[britain]

I have. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.

@moles.family.disney Full disclosure: I did cancel our plans for next year, intending to replace them with a Tokyo trip instead.

However, due to the amazingly low wait times and the Covid spike in Florida, AND because I want my kids to enjoy WDW without any sort of Genie upsells, we put together a quick trip for this coming Mon and Tue.

I gotta take advantage of this small window of Standby Sanity before the whole place goes to LL!

 

[jpinkc]

@moles.family.disney Full disclosure: I did cancel our plans for next year, intending to replace them with a Tokyo trip instead.

However, due to the amazingly low wait times and the Covid spike in Florida, AND because I want my kids to enjoy WDW without any sort of Genie upsells, we put together a quick trip for this coming Mon and Tue.

I gotta take advantage of this small window of Standby Sanity before the whole place goes LL.

Good Luck and be safe!

 

[Bea123]

@moles.family.disney Full disclosure: I did cancel our plans for next year, intending to replace them with a Tokyo trip instead.

However, due to the amazingly low wait times and the Covid spike in Florida, AND because I want my kids to enjoy WDW without any sort of Genie upsells, we put together a quick trip for this coming Mon and Tue.

I gotta take advantage of this small window of Standby Sanity before the whole place goes to LL!

DisneySea looks awesome. It's a bit tricky to do but you can actually book a ticket on the official Japanese website that bundles a stay in Disney with their version of FP. When I last looked you could get 8 passes to use on whatever rides you wanted across the two parks.

 

[Bea123]

Yeah I think thats what will happen too. Everyone and there dog will buy it, and then these G+ line skips will have lines as long as regular standby. Or they will all be gone by Noon everyday

I expect all passes to be gone by noon. However, Disney has said that you can purchase the Genie+ ahead of your trip with your entry tickets. To take advantage of this though you have to book Genie+ for EVERY DAY that your tickets are valid. So for example, if you are on a 14 day holiday with a 14-day hopper you will have to purchase Genie+ for all 14 days in order to get it in advance (even though you can't book the rides until 7 am on the day you visit the park). Instead of just purchasing Genie+ for your specific days in the parks.

I would suggest that lots of people will get Genie+ and the volume of sales will be capped, which means that not only will you have to book into the parks ahead of time you will also be made to pay for Genie+ on days when you are not even going to use it. This is because if you wait until the day there may be none left to purchase. This is quite an insidious way to get you to spend more. On top of this, you will have to start using it at rope drop to get value out of it as most of the good rides will be gone by the afternoon. Leaving people with not much else to do but eat and shop in the parks....Hmmm maybe it should have been called Genius, not Genie (well Genius for Disney anyway).

I do wonder if companies that offer 'bundles' will start building Genie+ into the ticket purchase price (as most people will want it).

Maybe you can 'book' the 2 individually paid-for rides in the afternoon and aim to use Genie+ in the morning. I don't know if ALL rides have to be used one at a time or if the 2 additionally paid-for rides can be booked separately to the paid-for Genie+

 

[pdude81]

I expect all passes to be gone by noon. However, Disney has said that you can purchase the Genie+ ahead of your trip with your entry tickets. To take advantage of this though you have to book Genie+ for EVERY DAY that your tickets are valid. So for example, if you are on a 14 day holiday with a 14-day hopper you will have to purchase Genie+ for all 14 days in order to get it in advance (even though you can't book the rides until 7 am on the day you visit the park). Instead of just purchasing Genie+ for your specific days in the parks.

I would suggest that lots of people will get Genie+ and the volume of sales will be capped, which means that not only will you have to book into the parks ahead of time you will also be made to pay for Genie+ on days when you are not even going to use it. This is because if you wait until the day there may be none left to purchase. This is quite an insidious way to get you to spend more. On top of this, you will have to start using it at rope drop to get value out of it as most of the good rides will be gone by the afternoon. Leaving people with not much else to do but eat and shop in the parks....Hmmm maybe it should have been called Genius, not Genie (well Genius for Disney anyway).

I do wonder if companies that offer 'bundles' will start building Genie+ into the ticket purchase price (as most people will want it).

Maybe you can 'book' the 2 individually paid-for rides in the afternoon and aim to use Genie+ in the morning. I don't know if ALL rides have to be used one at a time or if the 2 additionally paid-for rides can be booked separately to the paid-for Genie+

There is no way that buying IAS passes for lightning lane would stop you from using Genie+. However, what remains to be seen is whether or not they will allow any overlap in the attraction windows if you had a 1pm 7DMT and you wanted to use G+ to grab a 12:30 IASW.

 

[DisneyCane]

There is no way that buying IAS passes for lightning lane would stop you from using Genie+. However, what remains to be seen is whether or not they will allow any overlap in the attraction windows if you had a 1pm 7DMT and you wanted to use G+ to grab a 12:30 IASW.

In a way they are two different products so it shouldn't matter. The reason original FP, FP+ and now G+ don't allow overlaps is to limit how many you can use in a day. There is no practical reason that in 2006 you couldn't have easily made it to a 12:30 - 1:30 window at Space Mountain and a 12:45 - 1:45 window at Splash Mountain. You are limited on the IAS passes to two per day anyway.

 

[pdude81]

In a way they are two different products so it shouldn't matter. The reason original FP, FP+ and now G+ don't allow overlaps is to limit how many you can use in a day. There is no practical reason that in 2006 you couldn't have easily made it to a 12:30 - 1:30 window at Space Mountain and a 12:45 - 1:45 window at Splash Mountain. You are limited on the IAS passes to two per day anyway.

Sure, but they are both "Lightning Lane" access, and even when you could pay $50 pp/day for extra fastpasses before they were not allowed to overlap with the regular fastpass windows. They should allow for overlap but I am not expecting they will.

 

[Chi84]

if you wait until the day there may be none left to purchase. This is quite an insidious way to get you to spend more. On top of this, you will have to start using it at rope drop to get value out of it as most of the good rides will be gone by the afternoon. Leaving people with not much else to do but eat and shop in the parks....Hmmm maybe it should have been called Genius, not Genie (well Genius for Disney anyway).

This would be a nightmare scenario for Disney. Do people honestly believe that Disney cares nothing about the quality of the guests' experience? I understand that sites like these are rife with disappointed guests criticizing Disney for becoming increasingly expensive and less like the Disney of old, but it seems odd to suggest that Disney would be happy with a system that leaves their guests with nothing to do but eat and shop in the parks.

I've been going to WDW for decades, and I agree that the current management is vastly different from what it was years ago. I keep watching for the death spiral, where the company raises prices to the extent that fewer people go, leading them to again raise prices which in turn leads to even fewer people, etc. I'll admit that I'm concerned about the Disney company's continued commitment to its parks. I saw what happened when a gorgeous theme park modeled after Disney, Marriott's Great America, was sold to Six Flags.

Whatever happens with Disney will likely be the result of market forces; when the product is no longer of value to a sufficient number of guests, things will change. From what I'm seeing, this is still a long way off (others may disagree). Disney is making a number of decisions that are taking it away from what it used to be, but guests going for the first time likely don't know that and probably don't care. All they know is the kind of experience they will have at the parks - and if it's just shopping and dining with all the good rides gone by noon even with a paid system, they won't be back. If Disney truly doesn't care, the parks will be history before very long.

 

[Bea123]

There is no way that buying IAS passes for lightning lane would stop you from using Genie+. However, what remains to be seen is whether or not they will allow any overlap in the attraction windows if you had a 1pm 7DMT and you wanted to use G+ to grab a 12:30 IASW.

I am sure Disney wants everyone to purchase Genie+ and 2 additional Individual LL passes per person, per day. The question is if usage of the LL pass will be uncoupled from your Genie+ selections (in other words can you pre-book timeslots that fit around your day similar to FP or will you have to use the LL passes one after another along with your Genie+ rides). If uncoupled you could at least use LL in the afternoon when the popular Genie+ rides are certain to be full up.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I don't know why people think this system will result in long LL lines or run out of passes early in the day. We know how FastPass works. This will basically be the same thing, but access should be better because not everyone will be using it.

It will work great in parks like Magic Kingdom in particular, where there is a high attraction count. More popular rides may sell out earlier in the day, but I imagine one will still be able to get a Jungle Cruise pass at any time, for example. The old strategies will return. Try and get passes for popular things like the coasters as soon as possible, and get passes for things like Buzz Lightyear as a lower priority, and later in the day.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Some day in the near future, Bob Chapek steps to the podium at WDW to officially launch Genie + and Lightning Lane...

"To all who come to this international vacation destination; welcome. If you have enough money, Walt Disney World is your world. Here age remembers the prices of the past…and here youth accept and pay the prices of the future.
Walt Disney World is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts of the shareholder…with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to the shareholder."

 

[Bea123]

This would be a nightmare scenario for Disney. Do people honestly believe that Disney cares nothing about the quality of the guests' experience? I understand that sites like these are rife with disappointed guests criticizing Disney for becoming increasingly expensive and less like the Disney of old, but it seems odd to suggest that Disney would be happy with a system that leaves their guests with nothing to do but eat and shop in the parks.

I've been going to WDW for decades, and I agree that the current management is vastly different from what it was years ago. I keep watching for the death spiral, where the company raises prices to the extent that fewer people go, leading them to again raise prices which in turn leads to even fewer people, etc. I'll admit that I'm concerned about the Disney company's continued commitment to its parks. I saw what happened when a gorgeous theme park modeled after Disney, Marriott's Great America, was sold to Six Flags.

Whatever happens with Disney will likely be the result of market forces; when the product is no longer of value to a sufficient number of guests, things will change. From what I'm seeing, this is still a long way off (others may disagree). Disney is making a number of decisions that are taking it away from what it used to be, but guests going for the first time likely don't know that and probably don't care. All they know is the kind of experience they will have at the parks - and if it's just shopping and dining with all the good rides gone by noon even with a paid system, they won't be back. If Disney truly doesn't care, the parks will be history before very long.

I think Disney used to care about the guest's experience (gold standard) but I think they are more concerned about making money now (again gold standard). Forgetting the 3 free FP that you could book in advance how many popular rides have you ever managed to book using FP in the afternoon on the same day? Not many I'll bet (unless you are going when crowd levels are lower). It will be the same issue with Genie+ just because you have paid for it doesn't make the rides any less popular or the ride times shorter. And everyone will be getting it (that's why it has been rolled out). Even though most people (who used to use FP) will object to paying for something that used to be free we will still buy it. So either it is capped (and we are strongarmed into paying for it on days we don't even use it to ensure we can have it on the days we need it as a pre-purchased bundle) or it is not capped and therefore it will be rendered useless in the afternoons as we are effectively paying to FP lines with less than a 30 min wait time. I don't know about you but I would rather go chill out in the pool than ride the Carousel of Progress or Living with the Land (no offence if folks love those rides btw).

 

[jpinkc]

This would be a nightmare scenario for Disney. Do people honestly believe that Disney cares nothing about the quality of the guests' experience? I understand that sites like these are rife with disappointed guests criticizing Disney for becoming increasingly expensive and less like the Disney of old, but it seems odd to suggest that Disney would be happy with a system that leaves their guests with nothing to do but eat and shop in the parks.

I've been going to WDW for decades, and I agree that the current management is vastly different from what it was years ago. I keep watching for the death spiral, where the company raises prices to the extent that fewer people go, leading them to again raise prices which in turn leads to even fewer people, etc. I'll admit that I'm concerned about the Disney company's continued commitment to its parks. I saw what happened when a gorgeous theme park modeled after Disney, Marriott's Great America, was sold to Six Flags.

Whatever happens with Disney will likely be the result of market forces; when the product is no longer of value to a sufficient number of guests, things will change. From what I'm seeing, this is still a long way off (others may disagree). Disney is making a number of decisions that are taking it away from what it used to be, but guests going for the first time likely don't know that and probably don't care. All they know is the kind of experience they will have at the parks - and if it's just shopping and dining with all the good rides gone by noon even with a paid system, they won't be back. If Disney truly doesn't care, the parks will be history before very long.

I think this whole Genie thing is the Proof they dont care. They just want the $$$$. Thats all the current TWDC leadership is all about. All they have taken away and this being the 1 thing they have done. The fact that they wont tell us the whole New Genie structure is also alarming at least to me. They see $$$$ and Genie can magically get them there bonuses.

 

[Jenny72]

A cottager and his wife had a Hen that laid a golden egg every day. They supposed that the Hen must contain a great lump of gold in its inside, and in order to get the gold they killed her. Having done so, they found to their surprise that the Hen differed in no respect from their other hens. The foolish pair, thus hoping to become rich all at once, deprived themselves of the gain of which they were assured day by day.

Much wants more and loses all.

Thanks, Aesop. (And Wikipedia.)

 

[Chi84]

I think Disney used to care about the guest's experience (gold standard) but I think they are more concerned about making money now (again gold standard). Forgetting the 3 free FP that you could book in advance how many popular rides have you ever managed to book using FP in the afternoon on the same day? Not many I'll bet (unless you are going when crowd levels are lower). It will be the same issue with Genie+ just because you have paid for it doesn't make the rides any less popular or the ride times shorter. And everyone will be getting it (that's why it has been rolled out). Even though most people (who used to use FP) will object to paying for something that used to be free we will still buy it. So either it is capped (and we are strongarmed into paying for it on days we don't even use it to ensure we can have it on the days we need it as a pre-purchased bundle) or it is not capped and therefore it will be rendered useless in the afternoons as we are effectively paying to FP lines with less than a 30 min wait time. I don't know about you but I would rather go chill out in the pool than ride the Carousel of Progress or Living with the Land (no offence if folks love those rides btw).

I’m not as sure as you seem to be about how this system will work. I’ve been adjusting to different Disney systems since 1984. Some (FP+) worked better for me than others (standby), but we always managed to have great vacations regardless of the particular system.

It’s possible this will be the first system that doesn’t work for us. But based on my years of experience with Disney, I’m going to give it a try before deciding that it won’t work.

 

[Bea123]

I’m not as sure as you seem to be about how this system will work. I’ve been adjusting to different Disney systems since 1984. Some (FP+) worked better for me than others (standby), but we always managed to have great vacations regardless of the particular system.

It’s possible this will be the first system that doesn’t work for us. But based on my years of experience with Disney, I’m going to give it a try before deciding that it won’t work.

Of course, it will 'work' but you are essentially paying for something that used to be free and being given less control over how you use it at the same time. At least with FP you could spread your FP over the whole day if you wanted to (or use them up quickly and see how many more you could get each day). Also, I didn't mind using extra FP for less popular rides in the afternoon because it was FREE. Now I am being asked to pay for less popular rides that may be walk-on's in the afternoon (because people will book the most popular rides first and timeslots for them will run out faster).

Like I said previously I don't have an issue with paying-to-ride but Disney could have rolled this out in a much better way, given guests at least one free ride each day and set a fixed price for the 2 x individually priced LL passes so you knew what you were spending, as well as providing clarity on which rides you will have to pay extra for (above the Genie + pricing).

Also, the timing of this is awful, not yet out of a global pandemic, and Disney has done nothing but take away 'perks' that guests loved and then make them pay for a service that has been free for years! Maybe they should have just rolled out Genie (not +) and the 2 x paid rides (most popular ones) first to see how folks felt about it instead of going for gold!

Yes, we will all still go to Disney, we will use the new system, we will try and navigate the system in the best way so that we can use it to our advantage and we will suck up the extra costs.....but it doesn't mean we will 'like' it or that we will forget that it used to be FREE.

97 years to build a beloved Brand....I reckon it will take about 5 years to destroy it (at this rate).

 

[Chi84]

Of course, it will 'work' but you are essentially paying for something that used to be free and being given less control over how you use it at the same time. At least with FP you could spread your FP over the whole day if you wanted to (or use them up quickly and see how many more you could get each day). Also, I didn't mind using extra FP for less popular rides in the afternoon because it was FREE. Now I am being asked to pay for less popular rides that may be walk-on's in the afternoon (because people will book the most popular rides first and timeslots for them will run out faster).

Like I said previously I don't have an issue with paying-to-ride but Disney could have rolled this out in a much better way, given guests at least one free ride each day and set a fixed price for the 2 x individually priced LL passes so you knew what you were spending, as well as providing clarity on which rides you will have to pay extra for (above the Genie + pricing).

Also, the timing of this is awful, not yet out of a global pandemic, and Disney has done nothing but take away 'perks' that guests loved and then make them pay for a service that has been free for years! Maybe they should have just rolled out Genie (not +) and the 2 x paid rides (most popular ones) first to see how folks felt about it instead of going for gold!

Yes, we will all still go to Disney, we will use the new system, we will try and navigate the system in the best way so that we can use it to our advantage and we will suck up the extra costs.....but it doesn't mean we will 'like' it or that we will forget that it used to be FREE.

97 years to build a beloved Brand....I reckon it will take about 5 years to destroy it (at this rate).

Oh there’s no question in my mind that this new system will not be as good for my family as FP+. I had that down to an art form and we had our best, most relaxed vacations knowing we would be able to get the most popular rides at the times most convenient for us. And it was free.

But if you’ve followed the threads on FP +, it seems that many people hated the system and felt it did not work for them. They complained about the stress of having to plan so much in advance, the longer standby lanes and the limited number of free FP+. Many of those people would not have been satisfied with anything other than a pure standby system, likely because standing in lines is not a problem for them. Or maybe they weren’t around to experience the 90-minute waits for Splash and Space that preceded FastPasses.

In any event, Disney chose to discontinue FP+ and go to a paid system that is pretty widely used in other parks. It will take away the advance planning aspect and probably will allow express access to more rides. The question is how this system will work at a unique venue like WDW. I’m not ready to say how many people will use it or how many rides will be available at different times a day until it’s actually rolled out.

 

[pdude81]

Oh there’s no question in my mind that this new system will not be as good for my family as FP+. I had that down to an art form and we had our best, most relaxed vacations knowing we would be able to get the most popular rides at the times most convenient for us. And it was free.

But if you’ve followed the threads on FP +, it seems that many people hated the system and felt it did not work for them. They complained about the stress of having to plan so much in advance, the longer standby lanes and the limited number of free FP+. Many of those people would not have been satisfied with anything other than a pure standby system, likely because standing in lines is not a problem for them. Or maybe they weren’t around to experience the 90-minute waits for Splash and Space that preceded FastPasses.

In any event, Disney chose to discontinue FP+ and go to a paid system that is pretty widely used in other parks. It will take away the advance planning aspect and probably will allow express access to more rides. The question is how this system will work at a unique venue like WDW. I’m not ready to say how many people will use it or how many rides will be available at different times a day until it’s actually rolled out.

I think those people wanted maxpass at WDW but ignored the reality that a [no-additional-cost] maxpass would be empty of line skips by 11am most days.