Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
really they were pretty benign to consumers. But i did buy a nice tron one at one point:)
I just wanted them for the little ones. But I looked earlier and the shopdisney store selection was woeful at best. I suppose as they phase it out it will simply get worse. They don’t even appear to have a selection of colors beyond black, grey, and white. I suppose I will just ask for a couple of keys to the kingdom cards for the room and use the tags for tracking. Maybe buy when we get there 🤷‍♂️
 

witandwander

Active Member
We always use MagicBands. Its better for us since with 3 kids not having phones it can be used to track them. And they can also get back into the resort room without a phone in case they went to get food or the pool or arcade etc. Another perk we had taken away since our last trip. Now it'll be 10 dollars for each of them.
Where are you seeing $10 for a Magic Band? I thought I saw the plain ones for $20 on the website. I was hoping to get them for my kids so they could open the room, but not for $20!
 

DisneyDodo

Well-Known Member
How EPCOT isn't starting out with Frozen and Soarin' is beyond me. You have one of the most popular IPs on a low capacity ride with the most potential for parents to pay to prevent disappointment. Then, you have everyone and their mom's favorite ride that was so popular, they spent money on a third theater. I'm not for this system at all, but these are the only two EPCOT attractions I'd shell out for. I don't even see the need for Genie+ there, but maybe that's the reason for Test Track being Lightning Laned, so people will buy it to ride Frozen and Soarin.'
I think part of it is that they want to have a variety of attractions available with G+. I imagine a lot more guests will be amenable to paying for G+ than IAS, so they want to make sure the former has offerings that will appeal to everyone. If Rat and FEA are excluded from G+, families with little kids may not be motivated to buy.

Additionally, if they want G+ to spread out the crowds, they will want at least one ride from WS included.

As for TT vs Soarin', the third theater has kept wait times on the latter short enough that most guests likely wouldn't shell out $ for that ride alone.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I just wanted them for the little ones. But I looked earlier and the shopdisney store selection was woeful at best. I suppose as they phase it out it will simply get worse. They don’t even appear to have a selection of colors beyond black, grey, and white. I suppose I will just ask for a couple of keys to the kingdom cards for the room and use the tags for tracking. Maybe buy when we get there 🤷‍♂️

Buy some apple air tags or whatever and then be able to use them for something besides WDW when you are done.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
We went during the biggest lull in the pandemic and rode Soarin' 8 times in one day. Walk on each time. It was glorious.
A couple of days after reopening we rode FoP 7 times in one day with most taking a shortcut from exit to the FP line to re-ride. We took a break after 4 and came back for 3 more. We could have done 20+ rides if we wanted to. We stopped and left because we learned that you lose the thrill after too many in a short time period.

I can safely say that I will never be able to do that again in my life unless I bought one of those $20k for a design your own day things which won't happen unless I win the powerball.
 

Waters Back Side

Well-Known Member
Where are you seeing $10 for a Magic Band? I thought I saw the plain ones for $20 on the website. I was hoping to get them for my kids so they could open the room, but not for $20!

We went to order the standard ones unthemed and the price came up $10 for each. We have not yet ordered them because I want to see if I can find previous ones. Not sure why it said $10 each. They were just standard colors. I do not even have them in my cart to show you. I wish I did. This was several weeks ago.
 
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Jtdancy

Member
We went to order the standard ones unthemed and the price came up $10 for each. We have not yet ordered them because I want to see if I can find previous ones. Not sure why it said $10 each. They were just standard colors. I do not even have them in my cart to show you. I wish I did. This was several weeks ago.
They are no longer complimentary. Retail for the plain ones is $20 but they give on-site guests essentially a $10 credit... So it's "only" $10 🙄
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
The Radio network and listeners is not the same as the NFC infrastructure.
That's a good point - I really didn't think that thought through very carefully when I wrote that.

There is a fundamental delta here… giving everyone a beacon, listening to locate them… verse simply having the beacon directly telling you everything you want to know autonomously. The first requires compute, specialized apps, specialized infrastructure and paying for every beacon.

the second just requires wifi and ‘big data’. Once you get over the support/lifecycle concerns of the byod devices… it becomes almost an uphill fight to not do it this way. They have the “killer app” guests will be using with insanely high penetration rates. They are set…
My only point is that it never had to be an either-or. There's no reason they couldn't have already been doing this all along with their existing MDC app - magic bands or no. Someone in your group with a smart phone was going to be using it, anyway - maybe not as much as they'll be forced to now with the one at a time fastpasses but, still.

That's what I meant. It's not like the technology you're talking about is anything new or revolutionary that wasn't possible half a decade ago. I know because I work in this space for marketing - beacons, geos, the tracking - it's gotten so cheap it can be bundled and sold to lawn mowing businesses to target ads for peoples' home computers and mobile devices as they drive through and do work in a neighborhood - it was accessible tech for Disney a long time ago and a heck of a lot easier than for most others since they dind't have to devise sneaky ways to do their tracking since people have been willingly using their own branded app the whole time..
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
In thinking about this, I think I see a method to the madness regarding the premium attraction up-charge that isn't just profit.

... Possibly.

As was previously, it wasn't uncommon for all the most desirable attractions to be fully booked before the end of day at the 60 day mark. Part of this was due to people getting up at the crack of dawn to secure it and part of it was due to people being able to gain access earlier than 60 days by booking days towards the end of their trips at the start of their trip windows - sometimes a lot earlier for those people with long stays.

This was great for those folks with experience in the system but was probably a horrible experience for first-time guests who didn't know about the daily virtual running-of-the-bulls as well as anyone booking a more spontaneous trip already within the 60 day window, APs and day-guests who were limited to 30 days and basically, never got a crack at it.

For attractions that are brand new, this might be okay but six years after 7 Dwarfs Mine Train opened, this was still a thing.

Under the new system, the people who worked the old system have lost their advantage but in so doing, the playing field is now level.

Everyone can opt to pay the fee to ride FOP now, if they really want to get ahead of the line but presumably, due to the cost, many will not.

Unlike the $15 program where capacity reserved for lightning booking will probably need to continue to be a big percentage, for these one-offs, especially with variable pricing, there is the potential for a huge drop-off.

This means that at various points in the day, if 70%+ capacity isn't being used for fast-pass, the standby line, which I assume will now just be called "the line" should move a lot more briskly.

There will be more people in it but now with everyone in that line, the average wait time FOR THAT LINE should go down, helped by not just having most people using that line rather than the fastpass line but also with the loss of people like our "I never wait more than 25 minutes for anything" folks who are now out of the equation - unless they change their stance, that is.

I'm sure these lines will continue to be long but there is the potential for them to be a good deal shorter than in the past and the common situation of standing around so much with no movement should be vastly improved.

This is of course, contingent on that pricing being such that it dissuades the majority from doing it.

For things like ROTR, this won't improve anything for a long time but if you've done 7DMT every trip for the last half decade or more and the same with FOP and many of the other premium experiences that you were able to book at 60+ days out, is it going to to be worth it to you to spend $20+ per person in your party to do them on this trip with the line skip vs standing in a line that is potentially shorter (in wait time if not length) than it's ever been?

I can see people being willing to splurge once to do something they've never done before (one of the reasons this won't help much with ROTR) but I can't see too many people shelling out for every "premium" experience every day of their trip the way people who were maximizing their advantage in the old system obviously did.

Not saying it'll work out this way or that Disney won't decide to optimize for profit rather than guest satisfaction when it comes to pricing and capacity reserve (making it so a whole bunch of people will see it as cheap enough) and honestly, if I was a betting man, I'd say my faith in them is low but since we're all just guessing at this point, the separation of "premium" popular attractions from the pack could actually be an attempt to solve some of the standby problems by acknowledging that their capacity is too low for their popularity to have either the old system or the $15 system effectively work at keeping the majority of guests happy.

I dont know if disney cares about line length? I think they want raw profit...so sell enough as ible while not making the LL folks wait. I dont think theres any concern for impact to standby at all.
 

Bea123

Member
I feel sorry for the people who have developed Disney Genie because I bet the 'free' aspects of it (once the inevitable bugs have been ironed out) will be great and well used by folks. But because it has been rolled out with Genie+ (basically making everyone pay for a previously free FP service) I am sure it will go down in history as one of the most hated updates that Disney has ever made.

I don't have an issue paying more for FP rides. I visit less frequently and from the UK so paying to jump the queues makes sense for me. Although because of the additional costs involved I will make other changes to my holiday booking (accommodation and restaurants) I guess the real issues that I have for Genie+ are as follows and it will take time to see how it all plays out.
  • Why not give everyone 3 lightning lane passes for free (like FP) and then you can pay to skip more lines if you want to? This would be fairer, more in-line with the Disney brand ethos and also if you are then stuck in the standby line you will not begrudge the lightning Lane because you have also been using it on other rides (not so much a class system)
  • Why not allow people to plan at least 3 rides in advance if they would like to (so you know you have something to do in the afternoon and/or you can book your meals around ride times)?
  • Having to get up at 7 am on holiday to book the first pass (some people like a lazy morning) is not relaxing
  • Paying for a FP service, which has no guarantee of how many ride lines you can skip, is a bit much. You could pay the same amount for a day and ride 6 rides or just 1 - will people be demanding their money back if rides are not working, inclement weather, or low availability to ride due to park attendance and Genie+ popularity?
  • Will Disney cap how many Genie+ tickets are available for purchase, so ride availability is reasonable?
  • It seems very unfair that the additional Individual Lightning Lane pass costs will go up and down due to park attendance and ride popularity on the day. People need to know what they are spending so they can budget before they travel
  • Other parks such as Alton Towers in the UK upsell FastTrack options but they are a set price for specific rides so you know what you are getting and how much it will cost. You are guaranteed to get on those rides for your money. And by the way, if it rains for more than one hour at Alton Towers you can come again the next day free of charge.
  • What happens if all the Genie+ rides are gone by the afternoon (except ones with short standby lines) will people just head off because there is no point in staying in the parks (and come back for fireworks)?
  • How can people plan lunchtime table service restaurants when you don't know your ride times?
  • Will you have to manically criss cross the park just to get on rides?
I guess I will just have to wait and see how people are using this new service over time. The complete experience of the WDW holiday will have changed dramatically from my last visit to the next one. Staying most of the time off-site (as no perks and too expensive), no airport transport, no magic bands, no Disney dining plan, no FP, no forward planning (except for a few evening meals). Maybe it will be great and I will have a more spontaneous holiday with lots of rides or maybe I will spend the whole holiday lamenting what used to be!
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
I feel sorry for the people who have developed Disney Genie because I bet the 'free' aspects of it (once the inevitable bugs have been ironed out) will be great and well used by folks. But because it has been rolled out with Genie+ (basically making everyone pay for a previously free FP service) I am sure it will go down in history as one of the most hated updates that Disney has ever made.

I don't have an issue paying more for FP rides. I visit less frequently and from the UK so paying to jump the queues makes sense for me. Although because of the additional costs involved I will make other changes to my holiday booking (accommodation and restaurants) I guess the real issues that I have for Genie+ are as follows and it will take time to see how it all plays out.
  • Why not give everyone 3 lightning lane passes for free (like FP) and then you can pay to skip more lines if you want to? This would be fairer, more in-line with the Disney brand ethos and also if you are then stuck in the standby line you will not begrudge the lightning Lane because you have also been using it on other rides (not so much a class system)
  • Why not allow people to plan at least 3 rides in advance if they would like to (so you know you have something to do in the afternoon and/or you can book your meals around ride times)?
  • Having to get up at 7 am on holiday to book the first pass (some people like a lazy morning) is not relaxing
  • Paying for a FP service, which has no guarantee of how many ride lines you can skip, is a bit much. You could pay the same amount for a day and ride 6 rides or just 1 - will people be demanding their money back if rides are not working, inclement weather, or low availability to ride due to park attendance and Genie+ popularity?
  • Will Disney cap how many Genie+ tickets are available for purchase, so ride availability is reasonable?
  • It seems very unfair that the additional Individual Lightning Lane pass costs will go up and down due to park attendance and ride popularity on the day. People need to know what they are spending so they can budget before they travel
  • Other parks such as Alton Towers in the UK upsell FastTrack options but they are a set price for specific rides so you know what you are getting and how much it will cost. You are guaranteed to get on those rides for your money. And by the way, if it rains for more than one hour at Alton Towers you can come again the next day free of charge.
  • What happens if all the Genie+ rides are gone by the afternoon (except ones with short standby lines) will people just head off because there is no point in staying in the parks (and come back for fireworks)?
  • How can people plan lunchtime table service restaurants when you don't know your ride times?
  • Will you have to manically criss cross the park just to get on rides?
I guess I will just have to wait and see how people are using this new service over time. The complete experience of the WDW holiday will have changed dramatically from my last visit to the next one. Staying most of the time off-site (as no perks and too expensive), no airport transport, no magic bands, no Disney dining plan, no FP, no forward planning (except for a few evening meals). Maybe it will be great and I will have a more spontaneous holiday with lots of rides or maybe I will spend the whole holiday lamenting what used to be!
I do not feel sorry for any Disney employee involved with the conception, development and implementation of Genie, Genie + / LL's. It is poorly conceived, badly developed and ill timed for release. Despite all the colorful rhetoric and wishful comments of some posters for Genie the vast majority of comments from the vast majority of people are all negative. Yes the folks involved had one thing in mind come up with a scheme to skim a few more dollars off the guests and make it look like the guests were getting something in return. Such a mind set needs to be rewarded by allowing those involved to find employment else where.
 

EeyoreFan#24

Well-Known Member
I dont know if disney cares about line length? I think they want raw profit...so sell enough as ****ible while not making the LL folks wait. I dont think theres any concern for impact to standby at all.
I got that same impression when they didn’t limit the Genie+ somehow. I know they limited the individual passes, buts who’s to say an absurd amount of people wont purchase genie+ on a busy day. At the of they day it’s just math for the three lines G+ll+s= Line throughput and they have to make the call on which one goes first.
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
A couple of days after reopening we rode FoP 7 times in one day with most taking a shortcut from exit to the FP line to re-ride. We took a break after 4 and came back for 3 more. We could have done 20+ rides if we wanted to. We stopped and left because we learned that you lose the thrill after too many in a short time period.

I can safely say that I will never be able to do that again in my life unless I bought one of those $20k for a design your own day things which won't happen unless I win the powerball.
Yeah, we did MK and EPCOT on a spur of the moment trip once our school district went virtual to start the year. We had been cooped up for months and I'd been seeing how empty it was. Bought a 4-day DVC rental at Poly and we had the entire pool to ourselves the whole trip. When we were in that corner of Fantasyland by Dumbo and the Goofy coaster we didn't see anyone else from there to the Carousel other than CMs. Rode Peter Pan walk on back to back. At EPCOT, we wandered through entire countries without seeing anyone (many of the stores were closed, so no International CMs at all). It was wild and a once in a lifetime experience, for sure.
 

Bea123

Member
I do not feel sorry for any Disney employee involved with the conception, development and implementation of Genie, Genie + / LL's. It is poorly conceived, badly developed and ill timed for release. Despite all the colorful rhetoric and wishful comments of some posters for Genie the vast majority of comments from the vast majority of people are all negative. Yes the folks involved had one thing in mind come up with a scheme to skim a few more dollars off the guests and make it look like the guests were getting something in return. Such a mind set needs to be rewarded by allowing those involved to find employment else where.
I guess I just feel sad for Disney employees that chose to work for the company because they loved the brand values and ethos, and now find themselves hopelessly pushing back against the freight train of corporate greed that now monopolizes the corporation.

Imagine spending so much of your time and energy developing something to make people happy, only to discover you have just created the Death Star!
 

britain

Well-Known Member
Imagine spending so much of your time and energy developing something to make people happy, only to discover you have just created the Death Star!

1630074783667.png
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
I guess I just feel sad for Disney employees that chose to work for the company because they loved the brand values and ethos, and now find themselves hopelessly pushing back against the freight train of corporate greed that now monopolizes the corporation.

Imagine spending so much of your time and energy developing something to make people happy, only to discover you have just created the Death Star!
People were mad about the Paris system which was all paid and could be numerous paid line skips, wishing they would limit it or have some sort of bundle here that would reserve value. Anger subsided after time for most, and then they introduce something that was far less opportunistic for WDW, yet still the major outcry. We all knew the monetization was coming, so I'm just confused by the level of reactions that I'm seeing.

This is not a criticism of people being upset by paid ride skips, but a commentary on the general pattern of outrage that will soon subside. The devil will be in the details, whenever we actually get them. I think Genie on the whole will be pretty popular when all is said and done, but that's just an opinion.

However, before they roll this out, they should allow people to select an "Arrival time" for their parties so that they can get their first G+ selection at that time and cut out some of the complaints from people who don't want to rope drop. More or less, just shorten the ride window but don't make them sit on the app all morning. That takes nothing from anybody else.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
My only point is that it never had to be an either-or. There's no reason they couldn't have already been doing this all along with their existing MDC app - magic bands or no

Yes - but I think with Genie the app gets even more sticky and more 'full time'... basically, the case just gets stronger.

That's what I meant. It's not like the technology you're talking about is anything new or revolutionary that wasn't possible half a decade ago. I know because I work in this space for marketing - beacons, geos, the tracking - it's gotten so cheap it can be bundled and sold to lawn mowing businesses to target ads for peoples' home computers and mobile devices as they drive through and do work in a neighborhood - it was accessible tech for Disney a long time ago and a heck of a lot easier than for most others since they dind't have to devise sneaky ways to do their tracking since people have been willingly using their own branded app the whole time..

Speculating... but it just seems Disney was keen to prioritizing the need to keep lifecycle control to themselves - hence the desire to build around a token they control autonomously from consumer electronics. Think about it, this token was going to be used for tens of thousands of hotel rooms and access points, PoS, ticketing, fastpass terminals, fastpass gates... this is across many vendor spaces, many segments, and all are mission critical. You don't want to be at the mercy of the intersection of dozens of different phone vendor's product schedules, etc. I mean that is a lot more complex then 'best effort' marketing efforts, etc. It's certainly not a position you want to be in when the space is full of churn and there are a lot of variations out there.

From the outside... it just seems that decision has been moved on from and its yet to be seen if they are putting it all on 'sustaining' only and not making it a critical piece going forward.. but it sure looks like it. I think it will be interesting to see how the hotel access stuff is pushed going forward.. that seems the most immediate impact from Disney bailing on 'MBs everywhere...' kind of thinking.
 

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