Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Waters Back Side]

I'm personally going to be much more focussed on the IAS than Genie+. How hard will it be to get on Rat without paying? When does Rise open its Standby line? Will Tron coming online slide Space Mountain down into Genie+?

I agree this is my focus also slightly more. They are being very generous it seems with the Genie + rides they are offering though so I'm focused on that as well.

I also wonder what they slide to Genie + in Epcot once Guardians opens. Remy will be too new still and I cannot see them moving Test Track to Genie + as the line is always consistently the longest as a headliner. And they seem intent in 2 for each park or they would have added more to start.

 

[UNCgolf]

View attachment 582255
As the kids say: Ouch, Disney got ratioed.

When you see the video only has 162,000 views, though, that tells you the sample size is a tiny percentage of Disney guests.

On the other hand, a good amount of the people watching those videos are the hardcore fans who often love almost anything Disney does.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I cannot see them moving Test Track to Genie + as the line is always consistently the longest as a headliner.

It won't be, once Guardians is open.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

On the other hand, a good amount of the people watching those videos are the hardcore fans who often love almost anything Disney does.

Are you new here? The hardcore fans complain more than anyone.

 

[Waters Back Side]

It won't be, once Guardians is open.

It wont be what? Once Guardians opens are you saying they wont move test track and they will have 3 or they will move Test Track?

 

[pdude81]

It wont be what? Once Guardians opens are you saying they wont move test track and they will have 3 or they will move Test Track?

I believe he's saying the TT line won't be the longest anymore. I could easily see Guardians and Remy being the paid ones at that point but it depends on how popular Remy proves to be after a year or so. Maybe it ends up being GG and TT

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It wont be what? Once Guardians opens are you saying they wont move test track and they will have 3 or they will move Test Track?

I'm saying once Guardians is open, the line for Test Track shouldn't be all that bad anymore.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Are you new here? The hardcore fans complain more than anyone.

But they continue to go, to buy APs, DVC, etc etc etc.

 

[mwhite93]

I think most people will pick and choose when they use genie+ I think most agree it’s not really necessary in Epcot or Animal Kingdom. Depending on day of week you could probably skip using it at MK too. I think more people will use IAS then we think, but I think there will be a large majority that turns their back on it completely. As far as test track, I still don’t understand how that’s a headliner. Such an overrated ride. I’m curious to see what they do with annual passes, I almost feel like they need to include genie+ for APs or deluxe guests. I just think It needs to be included somewhere. Kind of to create buzz about it. Make people feel like they’re missing out on something. Otherwise I think genie+ and Bob chapeks time will be very short lived.

 

[UNCgolf]

Are you new here? The hardcore fans complain more than anyone.

Some of the hardcore fans on this forum, sure. There are a ton of hardcore fans on social media who fall all over themselves to praise everything Disney does.

If you're paying attention to Disney announcements on things like Youtube you're a hardcore fan almost by default. Some complain about almost everything, some praise almost everything, and some are more nuanced. It's unusual to see such an overall negative reaction to any official Disney release like that, though.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Some of the hardcore fans on this forum, sure. There are a ton of hardcore fans on social media who fall all over themselves to praise everything Disney does.

If you're paying attention to Disney announcements on things like Youtube you're a hardcore fan almost by default. Some complain about almost everything, some praise almost everything, and some are more nuanced. It's unusual to see such an overall negative reaction to any official Disney release like that, though.

Those "influencers" are loud, but they're small in number.

 

[UNCgolf]

Those "influencers" are loud, but they're small in number.

I'm just saying that if you look at most of the Disney Parks videos on Youtube (I'm looking at it now) the response is usually overwhelmingly positive. 4000 likes to 83 dislikes, 1700 likes to 12 dislikes, etc.

On the other hand, that video got a lot more views than most of the others I'm seeing on here (although nowhere near as many as ones for the 50th anniversary or the Galactic Starcruiser), so it may have attracted people who aren't usually watching Disney Parks Youtube. It could just be that people who were mad about it shared it with other people who were likely to be mad about it and it was essentially a self-perpetuating cycle.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Is it possible that after purchasing a lightning pass for everyone in my family, there might be no availability for the attractions that we actually want? My guess is yes, that would be possible. E.g. we buy it hoping to ride Big Thunder and Jungle Cruise but can only get passes for Barnstormer and Mad Tea Party.

With current fast pass, you at least know what you're getting. With other amusement park express passes (Universal, Kings Island, etc.) you know what you're getting. With this, nobody is sure of anything--not attractions, not times, and not number of passes that you'll be able to get per day. Isn't this paying for hopes and possibilities that are purely subject to availability and might not materialize? Am I missing something?

I guess I don't see how this is an improvement over the current system. I realize this is about money and not enhancing guest experience, but why not just start charging $15 a day for the current fastpass system?

I think we will see very early on what the distribution looks like for Genie+. With more attractions online with Genie+ relative to legacy Fastpass I would think that most things will have availability deep into the day. Exceptions would be rides like Peter Pan's Flight.

Also, if you look at the wording Disney has used on the Individual Attractions Selection (IAS) it explicitly says "up to 2 attractions per day". I know we have all been pointing to a Touring Plans article that suggested the 8 attractions across the 4 parks that would be part of IAS, but I think Disney is leaving themselves open to modify this. We also can't forget about the park hopping component that will allow guests to use the 2 attractions cap at two different parks.

The aforementioned Touring Plans article was not written by @lentesta but rather Julia Mascardo. I don't know Julia (or if she posts here), but perhaps Len can comment for her. I know Touring Plans gets good info, and Julia wrote this as if she had some sort of inside info to Disney's line of thinking. What I'd like to know though is if this is purely speculative or if it is based on information that Touring Plans / Julia acquired.

It should also be noted that on the most recent Disney Dish episode, Len didn't specifically call out these 8 attractions but rather said 1 or 2 attractions per day. With that in mind, I could absolutely see Disney coming out with the attraction list as follows for most days:

• Magic Kingdom: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (Every Day), Space Mountain (Some Days), TRON: Lightcycle Power Run (Every Day once the attraction is online), Splash Mountain (As its closure approaches, replacing Space Mountain)
• EPCOT: Remy's Ratatouille Adventure (Every Day, reverting to Some Days once Cosmic Rewind opens), Test Track (Some Days), Cosmic Rewind (Every Day once the attraction is online)
• DHS: Rise of the Resistance (Every Day), Slinky Dog Dash (Every Day)
• DAK: Flight of Passage (Every Day), Na'vi River Journey/Expedition Everest/Kilimanjaro Safaris (Probably only one from this group, but Some Days for whatever that one is)

I also know that @lentesta has seen the original xPass / FASTPASS+ slides for that original proposal. I think he's seen more than I have, but one element of note is Disney's internal recognition of how many Fastpasses per day, per park were utilized. They set the FASTPASS+ limits at 3 per park even though their initial data suggested that other than MK there really wasn't a call for that many with the OG Fastpass lineup. It took them padding the system with additional FASTPASS+ attractions to justify the 3 per day. That padding will still absolutely exist as part of the sales for Genie+. There will be very little incentive for them to remove Genie+ from an attraction like Haunted Mansion on a low crowd day even if the effect of redeeming a Lightning Lane reservation is ultimately moot. Conversely, OG Fastpass would regularly see the machines shut off on certain attractions when the lower crowds dictated it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Or, you know, the MB data wasn't able to be used because of a systemic issue that was only discovered recently. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

This may need to be expanded upon...

 

[MrPromey]

Or, you know, the MB data wasn't able to be used because of a systemic issue that was only discovered recently. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

That would hypothetically be a billion dollar mistake, no?

Sounds like hypothetically, you've got nothing to worry about.

 

[dovetail65]

The more genie is discussed, the details revealed and reviewed the more ill conceived, poorly presented and obviously a scam becomes apparent.

Data! So to what benefit has it proven to be for Disney? Humungous amounts of data are collected and an army of multiple degree / title / after name acronym people crunch it only to produce inaccurate / garbage projections / predictions. Data collection as with anything has its limits of benefit.

Well they want data, they can use historical data and software to guess very closely of course, but they want more than that or they would of kept the old FP system.

They want even more data than most realize. Even more than data the way the new system is Disney has a level of contool over where we go. No longer can I plan my day, instead Disney will use the data they have then open Genie selections and dish out whatever attractions benefit them putting people exactly where they want them, when they want them. If a restaraunt is slow they dish out those attraction at lunchtime right around that restaurant. If a store is slow genie pumps out availability for attraction near those stores, if people start clogging a certain area the same. This is why they want data now more than historical data. Real time data combined with us NOT being able to choose FP ahead of time allows Disney to lead us around like puppies on a leash while all the subliminal and regular advertising blasts us as we all along the path the genie software leads deems most profit for them.

So data is always going to be needed and everyday we move toward higher tech the more what I am am saying will become more the norm for all businesses. Heck grocery stores Home stores already use our walking patterns to place dsignage to practically ensure sales of certain items. So for me I will never ever prefer this type of control over yes even making FP choices 60 days out. I lost the control.. I hate to be a sheep and once I use that Genie system and I will, I will just be a little sheep.. Genie with the app they already have adds so much control over our days. Even if we didn't buy into Genie Disney still will know everything I do down to the time I go to the bathroom if I simply keep the app enabled.

We can't kid ourselves the data is precious to Disney and actually has a cash value.

In Vegas we could tell you exactly how much our casino would make by simply counting people coming in the door and it was precise. That was 25 years ago, now the tracking and software is so good and sophisticated they can probably guess what and where we are going to spend every dollar. This is what Disney wants and what we allow them to do by agreeing to the app, using a system thats is a same day reservation system(thats what Genie is) and even using Disney wifi.

They are focing us t accept it now if we want to participate in the skip the line scheme or heck if we dint want to buy a magic band. I will not be surprised if they abolish the Magic bands and someday force us to use phone to get in the park, they want us to use our phones.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It should also be noted that on the most recent Disney Dish episode, Len didn't specifically call out these 8 attractions but rather said 1 or 2 attractions per day. With that in mind, I could absolutely see Disney coming out with the attraction list as follows for most days:

• Magic Kingdom: Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (Every Day), Space Mountain (Some Days), TRON: Lightcycle Power Run (Every Day once the attraction is online), Splash Mountain (As its closure approaches, replacing Space Mountain)
• EPCOT: Remy's Ratatouille Adventure (Every Day, reverting to Some Days once Cosmic Rewind opens), Test Track (Some Days), Cosmic Rewind (Every Day once the attraction is online)
• DHS: Rise of the Resistance (Every Day), Slinky Dog Dash (Every Day)
• DAK: Flight of Passage (Every Day), Na'vi River Journey/Expedition Everest/Kilimanjaro Safaris (Probably only one from this group, but Some Days for whatever that one is)

Two sources have both given us just 2 rides per park.

Three of the parks only have 8-10 LL attractions to begin with. Moving three of those attractions to IA$ would make DG+ irrelevant for those parks.

MK is the only park that could stand to have 3 attractions in the IA$ category on the same day. BUT... if you could only use IA$ on two of the three, then the big spenders will be mad that they couldn't IA$ the third on of that park.

But, we'll see. Whatever the plan now, it can change multiple times before and after implementation.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney World's Controversial Move Will Win the Boo Birds Over​

Disney Genie+ isn't winning a lot of converts from theme park enthusiasts, but it's the right call at the right time​

The above is the opinion today of an investment website called the Motley Fool. It begs the question: is Genie+ really the right call for Disney, effectively raising ticket prices by 20% to 75%? In any product, if you raise prices, demand falls, and your total profit may or may not be increased as a result.

Genie+ will reduce crowds, if nothing else, by getting rid of people who can't afford (or refuse to pay for) Genie+ but don't want to be in WDW without fastpass. How big is that crowd? (The rest of the people will just go, perhaps less often, and either suffer without fastpass or pay up.) Will Disney make more money from raising prices, or would they make more by keeping fastpasses free and having more guests?

I don't believe Genie+ will ever win the boo birds over. The free fastpass worked fine before, so Genie+ is not going to work much better. Nobody is ever going to get over having to pay each day when they are used to it being free and working just fine.

The most important question is, will people get over it and flock to WDW like they always do? Disney obviously thinks so. It's Disney World after all.

Motley Fool likes to think of themselves as a top tier Wall Street analyst of Disney parks, but they've been so wrong in the past, that I don't tend to give them any credence, even when I agree with them.

 

[MisterPenguin]

View attachment 582255
As the kids say: Ouch, Disney got ratioed.

A video announcing that something that once was free* and is now going to cost guests gets 'ratioed'? What a surprise!!

BTW, 17K is half the attendance at MK on a slow day.


*FPs at 60 days and Club Level and VIP Tours had explicit and hidden premium costs in the past.

 

[Cesar R M]

Disney could mercifully, quietly, quickly terminate it, or, let it continue to fester and alienate guests until it is killed in an embarrassment to the company later.

They would still claim and use PR to say it was a resounding success so they are retiring it for a "better one" based on the "lessons learned"