Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[GoofGoof]

Trip Report (I have some observations & tinfoil hat time):

I just got back from a GREAT morning with this new system. I think if you are flexible, this can be a great resource.

To test this, I purchased DAK 3 days ago with the following FP's:

Navi 9:40 - 10:40
Safari 10:25 - 11:25
Everest 11:25 - 12:25

My original plan was to go to DHS after (this did not occur).

Overall trip - 10AM - 2:30PM

Navi - Redeemed at 10AM (Selected RnR for 6:50PM - did not use)
Safari - Redeemed at 10:25 (Selected Tower for 5:30PM - did not use)
Everest - Redeemed at 11:25 (At this point there were NO selections available for DHS - selected Space Mountain for 2PM)

At this point, I switched to MK and got the following:

Switched Rnr for Pooh at 12:30PM
Switched Tower for Tiana at 12:15PM

Arrived at MK and did the following:

Train to Tiana
Tiana - Redeemed at 12:18PM (Selected Ariel for 12:35 - T-Pose Mama Odie, this ride sucks lmao)
Train to Fantasyland
Ariel - Redeemed at 12:42PM (Selected Buzz for 1PM)
Pooh - Redeemed at 1PM (Selected Speedway for 1:05PM - did not use)
Peoplemover
Buzz - Redeemed at 1:50PM (Selected Nothing)
Space - Redeemed at 2:06PM (Selected Nothing)

Observations:

1. That was a lot of selections in a small amount of time. Having five minute overlaps was insane for touring.
2. MK wasn't very busy, and I noticed multiple rides where we were the only people scanning in for our return time. This was extremely strange, as...
3. There were multiple rides with no availability for the duration of our time. They also had extremely low wait times the entire time - this is not the behavior I expected of the system.
   
   Pirates - No availability, 5 minute posted wait (entire duration of MK time)
   HM - No availability, 13-20 minute posted wait (entire duration of MK time)
   Jungle Cruise - No availability, 20 minute posted wait (entire duration of MK time)
   
   Additionally, multiple rides had return times hours out after multiple, yet complete walk on standby times and visual waits.

My tinfoil hat: I think they're withholding inventory based on foreseen purchases from the 7 and 3 day windows. In (the now fourth) line skip system implementation, I have never seen so many rides with no inventory post such short waits. They've either lowered inventory so low that they operationally can handle the lines, or they simply do not release the inventory of the previous system's capacities if they do not forecast a need to do so.

Regardless, we had a great day, and felt that there was good value there. Especially starting at DAK. DHS clearly needs ride capacity, as that was an operational black hole today.

Good stuff. Thanks for the update

I like the tinfoil hat theory it’s actually not that tinfoily. This system is so new they are almost certainly not running it at optimized capacity.

A few other things for us to consider. Touring Plans was listing DHS as an expected 6 crowd level and MK only 4 so that could explain some of the disparity in available rides. I also wonder if maybe the drop schedules are different for in day drops. You were booking DHS rides between 10 and 11:25AM so maybe another drop happened later in the day. Hopefully someone comes up with a secret decoder ring for when the drops happen and shares it with all of us .

 

[lightningtap347]

Good stuff. Thanks for the update

I like the tinfoil hat theory it’s actually not that tinfoily. This system is so new they are almost certainly not running it at optimized capacity.

A few other things for us to consider. Touring Plans was listing DHS as an expected 6 crowd level and MK only 4 so that could explain some of the disparity in available rides. I also wonder if maybe the drop schedules are different for in day drops. You were booking DHS rides between 10 and 11:25AM so maybe another drop happened later in the day. Hopefully someone comes up with a secret decoder ring for when the drops happen and shares it with all of us .

Looking at touring plans, they dropped Tiana FPs every hour at :48, I got really lucky as I didn't know that. I didn't see any other noticeable behavior from the other attractions.

 

[Doberge]

There's also a frustrating tech issue after booking when modifying that when time shows as available it's not really available when clicking through but is updated to what is actually available. If it was a matter of unavailability because someone else eat to the punch, that's fine. But I've been looking at reservations for many hours today and keep seeing the same "available as early as..." times and then running into the same issue. In the past I believe someone described the system like as operating like a shopping cart in the background and that times qould become available after some determined time.

 

[Splash4eva]

There's also a frustrating tech issue after booking when modifying that when time shows as available it's not really available when clicking through but is updated to what is actually available. If it was a matter of unavailability because someone else eat to the punch, that's fine. But I've been looking at reservations for many hours today and keep seeing the same "available as early as..." times and then running into the same issue. In the past I believe someone described the system like as operating like a shopping cart in the background and that times qould become available after some determined time.

No way Disney would have a “glitch” they could fix but chose not too… can this be the new version of inflated wait times?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Trip Report (I have some observations & tinfoil hat time):

I just got back from a GREAT morning with this new system. I think if you are flexible, this can be a great resource.

To test this, I purchased DAK 3 days ago with the following FP's:

Navi 9:40 - 10:40
Safari 10:25 - 11:25
Everest 11:25 - 12:25

My original plan was to go to DHS after (this did not occur).

Overall trip - 10AM - 2:30PM

Navi - Redeemed at 10AM (Selected RnR for 6:50PM - did not use)
Safari - Redeemed at 10:25 (Selected Tower for 5:30PM - did not use)
Everest - Redeemed at 11:25 (At this point there were NO selections available for DHS - selected Space Mountain for 2PM)

At this point, I switched to MK and got the following:

Switched Rnr for Pooh at 12:30PM
Switched Tower for Tiana at 12:15PM

Arrived at MK and did the following:

Train to Tiana
Tiana - Redeemed at 12:18PM (Selected Ariel for 12:35 - T-Pose Mama Odie, this ride sucks lmao)
Train to Fantasyland
Ariel - Redeemed at 12:42PM (Selected Buzz for 1PM)
Pooh - Redeemed at 1PM (Selected Speedway for 1:05PM - did not use)
Peoplemover
Buzz - Redeemed at 1:50PM (Selected Nothing)
Space - Redeemed at 2:06PM (Selected Nothing)

Observations:

1. That was a lot of selections in a small amount of time. Having five minute overlaps was insane for touring.
2. MK wasn't very busy, and I noticed multiple rides where we were the only people scanning in for our return time. This was extremely strange, as...
3. There were multiple rides with no availability for the duration of our time. They also had extremely low wait times the entire time - this is not the behavior I expected of the system.
   
   Pirates - No availability, 5 minute posted wait (entire duration of MK time)
   HM - No availability, 13-20 minute posted wait (entire duration of MK time)
   Jungle Cruise - No availability, 20 minute posted wait (entire duration of MK time)
   
   Additionally, multiple rides had return times hours out after multiple, yet complete walk on standby times and visual waits.

My tinfoil hat: I think they're withholding inventory based on foreseen purchases from the 7 and 3 day windows. In (the now fourth) line skip system implementation, I have never seen so many rides with no inventory post such short waits. They've either lowered inventory so low that they operationally can handle the lines, or they simply do not release the inventory of the previous system's capacities if they do not forecast a need to do so.

Regardless, we had a great day, and felt that there was good value there. Especially starting at DAK. DHS clearly needs ride capacity, as that was an operational black hole today.

Thanks for sharing. Pretty clear they are holding quite a bit of capacity for day of and even drops throughout the day, perhaps based on actual crowds and ride performance, etc

Sounds like do you best with your preselections and then try to be flexible and keep refreshing day of

 

[RSoxNo1]

I still think it is a better system than G+ (other than reducing inventory by removing M&Gs).

I think everyone would be in agreement that LLMP would be better if they didn't separate the LLSP rides and make you pay additionally for them if you want them.

Not everyone can lock in three separate one hour windows that are largely immovable objects. Disney World is a vacation that involves children and children can't always be scheduled.

Advanced bookings of 3 attractions + Lightning Lane Single Pass has dramatically reduced the same day flexibility. It's the same problems that plagued Fastpass+ but exaggerated even further. The overall inventory for the 3 Lightning Lane Multi Pass is reduced because attractions that would otherwise be Tier 1 are essentially in their own Single Pass tier.

This system is unsustainable in its current form.

 

[Chi84]

Not everyone can lock in three separate one hour windows that are largely immovable objects. Disney World is a vacation that involves children and children can't always be scheduled.

Advanced bookings of 3 attractions + Lightning Lane Single Pass has dramatically reduced the same day flexibility. It's the same problems that plagued Fastpass+ but exaggerated even further. The overall inventory for the 3 Lightning Lane Multi Pass is reduced because attractions that would otherwise be Tier 1 are essentially in their own Single Pass tier.

This system is unsustainable in its current form.

FP+ worked fine for a lot of people; Genie+ got horrendous guest satisfaction scores, which is why pre-booking is coming back.

No system is going to make everyone happy. There have been some pretty good reports from people using the new system.

 

[doctornick]

Not everyone can lock in three separate one hour windows that are largely immovable objects. Disney World is a vacation that involves children and children can't always be scheduled.

See I would argue the opposite. I think having some semblance of a plan is much easier with families than having to do stuff on the fly. And times can be changed in the app if needed.

Advanced bookings of 3 attractions + Lightning Lane Single Pass has dramatically reduced the same day flexibility. It's the same problems that plagued Fastpass+ but exaggerated even further.

Seems more like a feature than a bug to me. I don't think "flexibility" is the big issue with G+ or LLMP - I think it is dissatisfied guests not feeling like they are getting enough value and clogging up Guest Services. I firmly believe that they settled on 3 advanced bookings so they can be assured that everyone purchasing got three attractions each day. That's more important to Disney IMHO than flexibility or day of availability or superusers getting 7+ rides.

The overall inventory for the 3 Lightning Lane Multi Pass is reduced because attractions that would otherwise be Tier 1 are essentially in their own Single Pass tier.

I legitimately don't understand what you are saying here. Outside of no longer having M&Gs as options, the inventory is the same. The tiering doesn't change that and it's certainly possible to get additional attractions from either tier once you redeem.

 

[easyrowrdw]

If they went all standby they would lose the older people who are taking the grandkids to character breakfasts in favor of the demographic pounding rides from open to close. I suspect they’re aware.

If I’d been made to guess how ride-skipping options would attract certain demographics I would not have guessed older visitors. It makes sense though. What did older folks do before FastPass? I guess that’s been a while. Maybe people have become so accustomed to it at this point that removing it is just unrealistic.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Not everyone can lock in three separate one hour windows that are largely immovable objects. Disney World is a vacation that involves children and children can't always be scheduled.

Advanced bookings of 3 attractions + Lightning Lane Single Pass has dramatically reduced the same day flexibility. It's the same problems that plagued Fastpass+ but exaggerated even further.

FP+ worked really well for us visiting with young kids. But I can see how adding an ILL and potentially a VQ would be difficult. A schedule was nice but 5 set times (one of which you have very little control over) could be too much. But not doing those reservations might mean you don’t get to do certain (desirable) rides. That’s not an easy choice.

 

[Chi84]

What did older folks do before FastPass?

I can only speak for my own experience. When we visited with my elderly mom, we would either skip the rides with long wait times or she would find a shady spot to sit and wait for us. I remember Splash routinely having 90-minute waits, a lot of it in the sun.

 

[Doberge]

Before the rollout there was a popular expectation that guests would be able to pre-book in times close to one another earlier in the day (at least for resort guests). The idea was that crisscrossing a park would be reduced. As it stands today this is very difficult to do before noon. It's great to have flexibility to pick times, but when realistic groupings are early afternoon to early evening (depending on popularity of the tier 1), tradeoffs are created as hours tick by before able to book new attractions (when first booked a the afternoon).

G+ put a burden on same day guests to work through the system and continue refreshing, and success stories for new multi LL have often included similar stories about modifying and refreshing. We've been checking every few hours to see what pops up for booked days 9 and 14 day, and we'll continue to do so. I suspect eventually we'll find better times to fit into our schedule but its going to be more burdensome, for us, than just doing it same day with G+. Sounds like there will still be much modifying and refreshing so I'm not imagining being on my phone less during the trip. More pre-trip work without significantly reducing day-of burden is, imo, a net loss.

What I'm talking about might be easier to see here, for we what we have for HS on August 5.:

First I note thatbwe have these because my kids have different HS interests and that's why we end up with +3 reservations. Anyway, 9 days out the best we could do with Slinky was 5:55. Our choices were then to either group things closer together after 2 for a plan to make more sense, but the tradeoff would be not starting to use reservations earlier (here Runaway Railway, Swirling Saucers, ToT) and booking better replacements later. Can this be cleaned up? Probably, but it's going to be a real pain.

 

[lightningtap347]

I legitimately don't understand what you are saying here. Outside of no longer having M&Gs as options, the inventory is the same. The tiering doesn't change that and it's certainly possible to get additional attractions from either tier once you redeem.

The inventory is less. Rides that were previously in inventory from Fastpass (FoP, Dwarfs, Rise) remain in their own pay solution. That's what he's saying, and he's correct.

 

[Dranth]

They've either lowered inventory so low that they operationally can handle the lines, or they simply do not release the inventory of the previous system's capacities if they do not forecast a need to do so.

They are likely holding some back to see how things go but, if you look at the numbers Len provided in the DAS thread, those changes had a pretty large impact as well.

Advanced bookings of 3 attractions + Lightning Lane Single Pass has dramatically reduced the same day flexibility. It's the same problems that plagued Fastpass+ but exaggerated even further. The overall inventory for the 3 Lightning Lane Multi Pass is reduced because attractions that would otherwise be Tier 1 are essentially in their own Single Pass tier.

Yep. G+ was basically original FP on a phone and worked great but, it was paid so a large group rejected it out of hand. Also, all the folks who love to plan complained. Now it will be the opposite. People who don't like to plan or who feel like they are now getting a significantly lesser value (like myself) will start complaining about the new system and we will see more changes.

 

[bwr827]

Before the rollout there was a popular expectation that guests would be able to pre-book in times close to one another earlier in the day (at least for resort guests). The idea was that crisscrossing a park would be reduced. As it stands today this is very difficult to do before noon. It's great to have flexibility to pick times, but when realistic groupings are early afternoon to early evening (depending on popularity of the tier 1), tradeoffs are created as hours tick by before able to book new attractions (when first booked a the afternoon).

G+ put a burden on same day guests to work through the system and continue refreshing, and success stories for new multi LL have often included similar stories about modifying and refreshing. We've been checking every few hours to see what pops up for booked days 9 and 14 day, and we'll continue to do so. I suspect eventually we'll find better times to fit into our schedule but its going to be more burdensome, for us, than just doing it same day with G+. Sounds like there will still be much modifying and refreshing so I'm not imagining being on my phone less during the trip. More pre-trip work without significantly reducing day-of burden is, imo, a net loss.

What I'm talking about might be easier to see here, for we what we have for HS on August 5.:

View attachment 804903

First I note thatbwe have these because my kids have different HS interests and that's why we end up with +3 reservations. Anyway, 9 days out the best we could do with Slinky was 5:55. Our choices were then to either group things closer together after 2 for a plan to make more sense, but the tradeoff would be not starting to use reservations earlier (here Runaway Railway, Swirling Saucers, ToT) and booking better replacements later. Can this be cleaned up? Probably, but it's going to be a real pain.

What am I missing - how do you have 5 rides booked in advance, none being single pass?

 

[doctornick]

The inventory is less. Rides that were previously in inventory from Fastpass (FoP, Dwarfs, Rise) remain in their own pay solution. That's what he's saying, and he's correct.

Ahh, got it. I thought he was comparing to G+ rather than FP+ there and talking about the tiering. Certainly true that LLSP takes inventory out of circulation relative to the previous free systems. Which does suck.

At a minimum, they should reduce LLSP to only one ride at MK but I’d really like to see them eliminate LLSP entirely and make LLMP more robust for everyone. But they are addicted to that revenue.

 

[bwr827]

They are likely holding some back to see how things go but, if you look at the numbers Len provided in the DAS thread, those changes had a pretty large impact as well.

So far, I haven’t seen anyone mentioning a significant wait in the Lightning Lane. I keep hearing “it was a walk-on.”

That’s a change attributable to DAS changes and inventory levels in LLMP.

 

[doctornick]

What am I missing - how do you have 5 rides booked in advance, none being single pass?

The poster has different rides for different members of their party.

 

[Ayla]

Before the rollout there was a popular expectation that guests would be able to pre-book in times close to one another earlier in the day (at least for resort guests). The idea was that crisscrossing a park would be reduced. As it stands today this is very difficult to do before noon. It's great to have flexibility to pick times, but when realistic groupings are early afternoon to early evening (depending on popularity of the tier 1), tradeoffs are created as hours tick by before able to book new attractions (when first booked a the afternoon).

G+ put a burden on same day guests to work through the system and continue refreshing, and success stories for new multi LL have often included similar stories about modifying and refreshing. We've been checking every few hours to see what pops up for booked days 9 and 14 day, and we'll continue to do so. I suspect eventually we'll find better times to fit into our schedule but its going to be more burdensome, for us, than just doing it same day with G+. Sounds like there will still be much modifying and refreshing so I'm not imagining being on my phone less during the trip. More pre-trip work without significantly reducing day-of burden is, imo, a net loss.

What I'm talking about might be easier to see here, for we what we have for HS on August 5.:

View attachment 804903

First I note thatbwe have these because my kids have different HS interests and that's why we end up with +3 reservations. Anyway, 9 days out the best we could do with Slinky was 5:55. Our choices were then to either group things closer together after 2 for a plan to make more sense, but the tradeoff would be not starting to use reservations earlier (here Runaway Railway, Swirling Saucers, ToT) and booking better replacements later. Can this be cleaned up? Probably, but it's going to be a real pain.

With a few exceptions, Genie+ (or whatever the latest stupid name is) isn't required to be able to ride rides. You can still wait in stand by.

 

[bwr827]

The poster has different rides for different members of their party.

Thank you - and now their words about that make sense, the kids having different interests. (Need more coffee)