Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[the_rich]

This is the issue in this thread. None of these scenarios are likely.

• The majority of people don't buy hoppers.
• The majority of people who do and also buy G+, will also buy the multi-park pass
• Most people who are hopping usually have an idea of what they want to do and will act accordingly when purchasing that pass in the morning.

Ultimately this is good for the consumer in a vacuum. You have more choice. You are more likely to save money if you are going to use G+ in EPCOT or AK. Disney also has the ability to limit G+ in MK making the product better (will never happen) while not impacting it's availability at other parks.

Still the system sucks from the beginning because of what @TheMaxRebo mentioned earlier. Disney is still asking you to do too much at the beginning of the day and mostly at 7am.

• Choosing G+
  • And now making the choice of G+ parks
• Choosing ILL
• Choosing VQ

This is more of a consumer psychology question because likely no one is tying these things together in an full ecosystem of guest experience. The more decisions a guest has to make in a day, especially when they are tied to money, the more stressed out they become. The less mental bandwidth they have to make other decisions like buying a fancy dinner or more merch. This is the reason why some people like the dining plan because on vacation they have to make less financial decisions during the fun.

So while the list of things you have to do at 7am isn't very hard and takes less than a minute to accomplish like @CaptainAmerica mentioned. Everyone here who has used the system knows that it's not hard.

The problem is that you've now made 2? 3? financial decisions that are likely costing you $100+ each before you had a cup of coffee or brushed your teeth EVERY DAY. Doesn't matter who you are, but that does not set up the day to be care free and fun.

Each system in of itself is fine and logically sound but CUMULATIVELY they stress the normal guest.

For me personally it makes things easier. I haven't bought park hoppers in over a decade because we didn't use it enough. So I don't have to worry about which G+ to buy. For my upcoming trip I was only going to buy for HS and possibly MK. But if it's priced at like $15 then I could see myself buying it at AK and maybe Epcot.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

What’s next variable parking prices

They do that elsewhere

for example to park at Citi Field for a Mets game the pricing is $25 during the week and $40 on the weekends (or other prime days)

(not saying they should do that at Disney just saying it is possible based on demand)

 

[the_rich]

They do that elsewhere

for example to park at Citi Field for a Mets game the pricing is $25 during the week and $40 on the weekends (or other prime days)

(not saying they should do that at Disney just saying it is possible based on demand)

I think its $40 all the time now. It was a few weeks ago on a Tuesday.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

For me personally it makes things easier. I haven't bought park hoppers in over a decade because we didn't use it enough. So I don't have to worry about which G+ to buy. For my upcoming trip I was only going to buy for HS and possibly MK. But if it's priced at like $15 then I could see myself buying it at AK and maybe Epcot.

I am very similar - we don't have hoppers out next trip and were thinking of either not getting G+ at all or maybe on our DHS day where we would sleep in and stack for later

Now, we are keeping things flexible and seeing how crowds are and how pricing is ... we may still do that for DHS but might not but we also may do it for EPCOT if the pricing is pretty low and then also not rope drop there


But like a lot of things while this is good for some guests it is bad for others (if you do park hop, if you do MK more often, etc) and like @JD80 posted about, it's just another decision people have to make on their vacation, early in the morning, and comes with $ attached to it. For many that makes the experience less enjoyable (even if the net result is a slight benefit for them)

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think its $40 all the time now. It was a few weeks ago on a Tuesday.

oh really? I saw $25 earlier this year but maybe they just went to $40 all the time lol

 

[the_rich]

I am very similar - we don't have hoppers out next trip and were thinking of either not getting G+ at all or maybe on our DHS day where we would sleep in and stack for later

Now, we are keeping things flexible and seeing how crowds are and how pricing is ... we may still do that for DHS but might not but we also may do it for EPCOT if the pricing is pretty low and then also not rope drop there


But like a lot of things while this is good for some guests it is bad for others (if you do park hop, if you do MK more often, etc) and like @JD80 posted about, it's just another decision people have to make on their vacation, early in the morning, and comes with $ attached to it. For many that makes the experience less enjoyable (even if the net result is a slight benefit for them)

I get that but for me there aren't too many decisions to be made day of. I like to plan my disney trips and I already have a detailed itinerary 2 months out. Obviously weather can change things but otherwise we stick to the plan.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've had nothing but amazingly fast and pleasant interactions with guest services in my past 3 trips when I needed help cancelling ADRs, adjusting ILLs or getting refunds for them because of weather or downtime.

And others haven’t. Which is to be expected.

And you go in there to do that stuff? I wasn’t even aware they still did dining?

It’s on the phone

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

On our Nov/Dec trip, we didn't bother buying G+. We still used our phone a lot to check wait times though. We got to ride everything with zero issues. The longest we waited for a ride was ROTR at 90 minutes during the afternoon. We got duped though as the sign said 40 min standby and it clearly wasn't lol But we did get to ride it three times that day. No complaints.

 

[Touchdown]

If only it were that easy.

Less people able to afford G+ won’t be a win though, it’ll be a backlash since it all used to be included without additional cost not long ago

They just need to build a lot of new attractions/people eater things in all parks.

People don’t want to wait in a “long” line. What constitutes long is different but i feel ranges from 30-60 min. If Disney could keep all but 1-2 rides at each park within that range I don’t think most people would be upset. Yes they need to keep building up capacity but with far less G+ throughput, appropriate park hours, and stopping all this VQ nonsense I believe they could achieve those waits on most days.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I get that but for me there aren't too many decisions to be made day of. I like to plan my disney trips and I already have a detailed itinerary 2 months out. Obviously weather can change things but otherwise we stick to the plan.

Sure, and I am generally the same way, just think when it comes to real time decisions that have a financial component it can impact you and make things feel less of a vacation

Even if you are fully committed to getting G+ for MK, if you are planning for it to be ~$30 and wake up and find it is $40 that gets your day off to a negative start

 

[Jrb1979]

Sure, and I am generally the same way, just think when it comes to real time decisions that have a financial component it can impact you and make things feel less of a vacation

Even if you are fully committed to getting G+ for MK, if you are planning for it to be ~$30 and wake up and find it is $40 that gets your day off to a negative start

Agreed on that part. IMO the reason for a lot of the complaints is less to do with the price but more to do with the fact that it's in people's heads that you need Genie+ to enjoy the parks.

 

[Jenny72]

Well, about half of guests buy it, right? So it's in half of people's heads, I guess. But even though I prepped my kids for waiting a lot, and even though we got on a lot of rides without huge waits, it was pretty dispiriting being held at the merge point of Jungle Cruise or whatever and watching 90% of the boat fill up before we were allowed to move a few people from our line. Once it started getting hot, my son started fuming "stupid Lightning Lane!" It definitely made him more negative about the trip, even if I was trying to be pretty zen. When I mentioned that I got a survey after the trip, my son immediately said, "Did you tell them how much we hate Lightning Lane?"

 

[JD80]

I get that but for me there aren't too many decisions to be made day of. I like to plan my disney trips and I already have a detailed itinerary 2 months out. Obviously weather can change things but otherwise we stick to the plan.

True - most of us plan these things out ahead of time so the actual decision making process is already done. That still doesn't change the fact that you have a list of 2-3 things to do at 7AM that cost money, even if it's budgeted. You may second guess yourself if it's worth it or maybe thing if X Y Z is a better idea in the spur of the moment.

These are normal vacation decisions, so from a 30k foot view it's not too bad. But you're (potentially) making these decisions at 7AM EVERY day. Over the aggregate of millions of guests, this has some attrition on other things around property.

 

[JD80]

And others haven’t. Which is to be expected.

And you go in there to do that stuff? I wasn’t even aware they still did dining?

It’s on the phone

You need to head over to a blue umbrella to cancel ADRs if you're within some kind of window of arrival. At least last summer I had to get help to cancel an Oga ADR.

 

[lentesta]

Is it impossible to be more accurate? How do your predictions compare from an accuracy basis relative to Disney?

I think it's possible to be more accurate. A theme park operator would argue that it cost too much, or that overestimating leads to higher guest satisfaction, or a million other things that make it infeasible to be more accurate.

Is this a situation where you as a third party would be the expert testimony? Blink twice if I'm on to something.

We've never got to that point in conversations. Mostly it has been "What does the data show?" and "If you were a theme park operator, how would you explain this?" And since that wasn't an obvious, slam-dunk argument, it wasn't worth the time to pursue.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You need to head over to a blue umbrella to cancel ADRs if you're within some kind of window of arrival. At least last summer I had to get help to cancel an Oga ADR.

I wonder if that’s still the case since they knocked the “window” down from “day before” to “2 hours”?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I hope the price does go up, enough that a bunch of people don’t buy it. Here’s why:

-Less people buying it makes it easier to get FL spots for the people who still do (win for those customers)

-Less people buying it means less people using FL, meaning more standby throughput at merges shortening the line for everyone else (win for the rest of the customers)

-Disney maintains (or possibly grows) revenue off G+ while also increasing guest satisfaction (win for them)

It’s literally win, win, win.

Oh no…

They don’t want the “same revenue” with less people

They’re in a war with their investors - behind the scenes…they’re promising more at higher prices

First day in Iger land?

 

[JD80]

On our Nov/Dec trip, we didn't bother buying G+. We still used our phone a lot to check wait times though. We got to ride everything with zero issues. The longest we waited for a ride was ROTR at 90 minutes during the afternoon. We got duped though as the sign said 40 min standby and it clearly wasn't lol But we did get to ride it three times that day. No complaints.

Sure. The question that @lentesta has asked and calculated is how much money per hour you are saving with G+.

If a park ticket is X and the park is open for Y hours there is a cost per hour B = X / Y for being in the park. If G+ costs Z and saves you A hours not being in a line. Then you can compare Z / A dollars per hour saved to B and make your own value statement.

Example for today:
MK Ticket Price is X = $159
MK is open 9AM to 10PM, Y = 13 hours
Cost per hour at MK = X / Y = B = $12.23
G+ is Z = $23

To solve A from data, we can reference Touring Plans from March of this year. My TP sub just ran out (sorry Len!) but I'm going to guess MK is a 6 today which, on average will save you 259 minutes or A = 4.32 hours.

Z / A = $23/4.32 = $5.32 dollars per hour saved - so the cost of gaining an extra 4.32 hours at the parks is $5.32 per hour.

Given that it costs $12.23 per hour to be in the park, you are gaining an additional hours at the park at a 60% reduced rate.

Or something like that.

It always comes down to a value proposition for you personally. What can you do with those extra 4.32 hours? Maybe you can do the same amount of stuff, but take 4 hours off in the middle of the day and hit the pool? Maybe you can do 33% more attractions? Maybe you can get everything done in a day and then have a resort day and save on park ticket costs?

Maybe you can use the 4-day park ticket offer they have ($100 per day) and not feel like you need two MK days then. Changes the math on a lot of things if you truly want to break down everything to a number. Which I tend to do because I think it's a fun puzzle.

 

[flynnibus]

I

amay be misremembering, but I think they did have them. You could pay extra for a closer parking space (some programs, such as AAA, had it as a perk) Perhaps so many people were willing to pay it that it became the norm rather than the exception?
Please note that I'm talking about something that may have happened almost 40 years ago.

They had different offerings (preferred spots that basically displaced the old AAA diamond perk)… but not variable pricing where the prices changed per day or per period

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

On our Nov/Dec trip, we didn't bother buying G+. We still used our phone a lot to check wait times though. We got to ride everything with zero issues. The longest we waited for a ride was ROTR at 90 minutes during the afternoon. We got duped though as the sign said 40 min standby and it clearly wasn't lol But we did get to ride it three times that day. No complaints.

I’d bet dollars to dimes it was 90 because it had mechanical glitches or load problems about a half a dozen times while you were in line

A WDI calling card these days…overcomplicated for little payoff.