Lets Discuss.. How the Enchanted Mirror achieves it's Transformation

[flynnibus]

^very good. Perhaps LED screens behind the mirror? No projector needed! I'm pretty sure that the split is slid into view as the picture pans over to show the door. The split would slid in from the right.

led isn't seamless.. and the images still go all the way to the edge as the door opens. can't be a projector directly behind the door because you'd see the lamp when the door opened. So it needs to be somewhere out of the direct line of sight of the guests.

I'm thinking short-throw projectors from above or something.. no one has looked up in the videos!

 

[flynnibus]

I thought I had it nailed until I saw the sides of the mirror... they telescope from BOTH ends (top and bottom). This means the center piece (blue in my diagram) can't simply be attached to the wall and have the bottom piece just 'pull' the telescoping sections out.

thinking outloud.. I guess they could still if the telescoping was geared together.. so pulling on the bottom actually pushed the top section out. That way the center piece would move down as seen in the video and could still just float over the side walls.. and basically just be a tube with geared rails.

It also makes me wonder what Disney's 'B' mode for the attraction is. What's the plan when the mirror is broken.. wonder if there is a direct path to the 'hub' behind the mirror.

I also wonder if only the library room is duplicated for capacity. If the wardrope duration is the correct length.. one warddrobe room could feed both libraries. I want to know what is duplicated or not..

 

[Brutus Buckeye]

One thing, were all assuming its a mirror.

What if it is two lcd or plasma screens placed on some sore of retraction device next to each other. Maybe its not even projected but being displayed, like on a tv?

 

[Brutus Buckeye]

I also wonder if only the library room is duplicated for capacity. If the wardrope duration is the correct length.. one warddrobe room could feed both libraries. I want to know what is duplicated or not..

So two wardrobe rooms and four storytime rooms?

 

[flynnibus]

One thing, were all assuming its a mirror.

What if it is two lcd or plasma screens placed on some sore of retraction device next to each other. Maybe its not even projected but being displayed, like on a tv?

Those aren't seemless.. you couldn't butt two together.. nor display all the way to the edge during the opening sequence.

And I believe it's a two way mirror because you can clearly see reflections in the surface (in the second video above). So it's a glass surface or like glass. The image looks too sharp to be glass with something behind it at a distance.

Also, when it opens, in the second video, you can clearly see the side profile of the projection surface.

 

[unkadug]

OK I think I got it. If you'll notice after the doors open there is still some green pixie dust floating in the opening. The mirror is still there ! Then the screen goes black...that is when the mirror is slid out of the way

 

[flynnibus]

So two wardrobe rooms and four storytime rooms?

No.. why do we assume there are two libraries per wardrobe? If the wardrobe segment is half as long as the library segment... one wardrobe would feed two libraries.. if their time are more similar.. it would be one to one. That's more of my question.. trying to figure out where the duplication really is.

Based on the room behind the mirrors.. I think there could be two paths to two wardrobes.

Should look at the duration of the wardrobe sequence vs the room. That will give us a hint..

 

[flynnibus]

OK I think I got it. If you'll notice after the doors open there is still some green pixie dust floating in the opening. The mirror is still there ! Then the screen goes black...that is when the mirror is slid out of the way

Don't think so.. when I watch.. the green you see in the mirror area is actually green on the floor and sides BEHIND the wall.. not in the open air. Then as the blue lights are raised behind the wall.. there is no visible transition.

Look at this frame.. you can actually see the green projections on the edge of the 'mirror' as it peels open. The red arrow is actually the side surface 'behind' the mirror. The blue arrow is the projection surface edge moving and the green projection actually catching on the side edge of it.

I'm gonna go start looking at more video sources

 

[flynnibus]

Ok, looking at TPR's video.. first

It appears they put a barrel and anvil in front of the mirror near where the seam for the C panel would be. Obstructing this area...

There is zero doubt in my mind the panels actually split with the door animation. You can watch the reflections terminate as the panels separate.. and you can see them go into the side walls during that sequence. I just can't figure out when the seam actually starts.. if its there all the time or is moved in.x`z`

every video I watch.. the wardrobe sequence is different length.. 4:30 - 6+ mins.. and the belle sequence only being about 9 minutes or so. Timing can't be trusted when they are only running one room.. but still makes me wonder what the operation model will be and if there really are two belle libraries behind wardrobe and one wardrobe room. I think that's the model

 

[Rob562]

I haven't looked at the projection parts too closely, but here's a few things I've seen regarding the frame:

-The center part of the top edge is solid and attached to the wall above.
-The upper corner pieces and the sides are attached to the side walls. The top piece extends *under* the two top corners. When the sides expand, they only expand the width of those corner pieces on each side, exposing the part of the top frame that was underneath.
-The side pieces are two parts that telescope downward. In one video (and the freeze-frame of it above) you can clearly see the horizontal line of separation on either side of the door. These seams start out against the top corner pieces. Also note that once expanded, the top 1/3 of the frame seems to be flat, with no carved woodwork, as the seam needs a flat surface to slide against.
-The bottom edge of the frame is attached to the wall below the mirror, and sinks into the floor. The lower corner pieces overlap it in the same way as the top.

One thing I haven't seen yet is how does the frame itself fit into the floor? The frame sticks out from the wall an inch or so. If the floor goes right to the edge of the wall, the frame will come down and hit the floor. (If it were a matter of stepping over the bottom frame as you went "through" the mirror, then it'd be easy, but obviously there has to be a flat surface to walk/roll through)
So I think either the bottom edge of the frame tucks inward slightly before hitting the floor, or there's some kind of 1" deep trap door at the edge of the floor that allows the frame to slide down into the floor while still showing a solid floor when in the up position.

As for the projections, could it be two projectors *behind* the doors, one on each side, that are mounted to the door/projection-surface assembly, and thus pivot with the doors when they open? If they swung back into pockets on either side, Guests would never see them. That way they are always focused properly, and can rear-project onto the surface of the door no matter what position it's in. It would just be a matter of moving the mirror to the side right before the doors swing open.

Lastly, it's one Wardrobe room and two libraries. They can keep the Guests flowing because they wouldn't start the mirror sequence until the CM in the Wardrobe room presses a button to say that the Wardrobe room is clear and ready for the next set of Guests. (Like how the CM in the Tower of Terror library turns a when the rear exit panel opens to keep it held open, and then turns it back to "Auto" so the system can reset itself and let in a new set of Guests as the cycle of the two libraries alternate)

-Rob

 

[unkadug]

Any moving of a projector while the bulb is still hot is a big no-no. Projector bulbs are expensive and moving them while hot severely shortens their lifespan.

 

[kap91]

Ah I miss these debates! I can tell you guys definitely that the projector that does the green stuff on the frame is definitely inside the workshop in the ceiling. there's a small hole in the ceiling behind a rafter than you can clearly see light coming out of in person. Can't tell if it also does the video of the castle. I also paid attention while the mirror expanded and the bottom u part of the frame telescopes out of the rest of the frame.

I know someone who worked on the attraction, and while they refuse to tell me all the details, he can confirm that stuff goes into the floor. The way he made it sound, the entire mirror goes into the floor, but since he wasn't intimately involved in designing the effect I would take that with a grain of salt.

Finally, after seeing the effect in person I'm pretty positive the two "doors" slide open left and right while the animation on them makes them look as if they open outwards.

 

[flynnibus]

One thing I haven't seen yet is how does the frame itself fit into the floor?

In one shot I saw the threshold.. which looks like you walk right on the mirror's edge itself.. as it went flush with the floor. It doesn't look like they cover the threshold. And for the floor, I'd wager it's just some flap that moves down with the panel or as the mirror pushes it out of the way.

As for the projections, could it be two projectors *behind* the doors, one on each side, that are mounted to the door/projection-surface assembly, and thus pivot with the doors when they open? If they swung back into pockets on either side, Guests would never see them. That way they are always focused properly, and can rear-project onto the surface of the door no matter what position it's in. It would just be a matter of moving the mirror to the side right before the doors swing open.

I'm virtually certain the mirror panels don't swing.. that's just the animation fooling the eye. And the green projection is clearly in the workshop side from the shadows and overlap you see the green projections.

Lastly, it's one Wardrobe room and two libraries. They can keep the Guests flowing because they wouldn't start the mirror sequence until the CM in the Wardrobe room presses a button to say that the Wardrobe room is clear and ready for the next set of Guests

Yeah, but to keep things running smooth.. the timing needs to be right so the libraries don't sit idle. They need to know 'wardrobe takes X minutes.. and mirror takes Y.. so X+Y minutes before the library is done, they need to ensure a mirror sequence is started', etc and then making that work for multiple rooms means things typically need to have intervals that are multiples of each other. So it's not just about signaling 'ready', but you don't want gaps either. Things are running concurrently. But its pretty pointless to try to time this at this point as they are testing still and from what we've seen, only running one library so far.

But we should normally expect the wardrobe sequence to be half the duration of the library sequence and having the libraries run staggered. But with only one wardrobe.. they are probably gonna really drag out the mirror sequence. I guess the theory is.. moving through the house and workshop they give you lots of time to look around.. and that house+workshop time is what should be the same as the wardrobe timing.

 

[flynnibus]

Ah I miss these debates! I can tell you guys definitely that the projector that does the green stuff on the frame is definitely inside the workshop in the ceiling. there's a small hole in the ceiling behind a rafter than you can clearly see light coming out of in person. Can't tell if it also does the video of the castle. I also paid attention while the mirror expanded and the bottom u part of the frame telescopes out of the rest of the frame.

Not debates.. discovery!

Thanks for that on the projector. I saw some more videos looking up.. but not looking backwards. They've hid it pretty well it seems!

 

[unkadug]

I can tell you that there are some pretty incredible short throw lenses out there that can project a very large image in a very short throw distance. I reality the projector could almost be right in front of the mirror by mere inches nut hidden in a rafter makes a lot more sense.

 

[kap91]

Okay, so after some thought I think I've come up with the most likely explanation of how the mirror and/or image surface moves out of the way. Kudos to the person who mentioned early on the seam might come in later.

If you watch the video the double doors slide in from the right as the camera moves right. It's an odd move considering the rest of the video has the camera pushing into the scene, its also a fairly linear animation, which tends to be unusual these days. This led me to believe the animation of the door sliding in (before it opens) was carefully timed. My guess is that the real seam between the two panels of mirror/image surface comes in and follows the seam between the two animated doors. Then when the animated doors open the two panels slide away. I've tried to illustrate it in the image below, please excuse my horrible art skills.

The frame I'm referring to is the final door frame you walk through, I think the person who posted earlier about the picture frame is essentially correct, so this post mainly addresses what happens to the mirror behind it.

Additionally, It's my guess that image is being projected onto the surface behind the glass (probably from the same projector that projects the green swirls) for the following reasons:
1. The image is fairly soft and dim, if it were an led screen or lcd etc, it should be sharper with individual pixels discernible - although the mirror in front could diffuse it I guess.
2. It's much easier to map projections to a moving surface than to sync a video on a screen and hope it matches
3. WDI has a love affair with projectors, not TV's.

 

[flynnibus]

I considered the change during the animation as described and only contined to look elsewhere because in the videos available I just can't see it come in. But that is only by not seeing reflections change.

The animation is slick in that it keeps where the doors meet black. Making seeing the seem even harder to pick out.

I think the projector is behind and above the mirror. Why? Because it plays well only in the mirror image. The green effects play over the image well... The reflections off the mirror still work well.

Video vs projector makes no difference for ability to sync. This is all digital video. The projector and a video screen are the same exact LCD technology. One just uses a lens to make it seen larger.

I think the animation is just too coincidental to be anything else and I'm gonna settle on that is how the panels slide to the left to expose the seam.

 

[Rob562]

After seeing some still photos and then going back to the videos, I realized we've been slightly wrong about the moving walls and frame. The only wall that moves is the lower wall. And it's the *entire* wall section below the waist-level chair rail and between the two vertical beams on either side. The key for me was noticing that the top edge of the bottom of the frame (what will eventually be flush with the floor) was pretty much even with the bottom of the chair rail.

So the only thing attached to the upper half of the wall is the top of the mirror frame, both what you initially see and what appears on either side as the frame expands. Everything else is attached to (or at least connected to via support structures behind/inside the wall) the lower half of the wall.

So when the frame expands downward, the *entire* lower half of the wall sinks down into the floor, taking the the bottom of the frame and the two sides with it. This would eliminate any seams where some of the lower wall is moving and some isn't, which could give the illusion away much like the frames and wallpaper in the Mansion stretching rooms. The only seam where one wall section meets another is up under the bottom of the chair rail, well below anyone's field of view, or well off to the side where the wall meets the vertical posts (and is likely very dark when the wall is moving)
.
The only minor bit is whether both the outer and inner pieces of the side of the frame are supported by the moving lower half of the wall or by the non-moving upper half.

-Rob

 

[flynnibus]

Rob - you skip over that the mirror also grows side to side...

unless the growth is less than the width of the mirror side.. there must be action in the side walls too so the wall is covered, and the mirror area is open once the mirror has expanded.

The reason I do not think the entire wall moves is again.. because of the wall behind the mirror on the sides. The wall needs to go somewhere.. and can't just slide up.. else you'd see it as the mirror expands side to side.

the only way i can see this working is if the mirror sides cover all the travel side to side themselves, and the wall is always 'empty' in those areas.

 

[unkadug]

Rob - you skip over that the mirror also grows side to side...

unless the growth is less than the width of the mirror side.. there must be action in the side walls too so the wall is covered, and the mirror area is open once the mirror has expanded.

The reason I do not think the entire wall moves is again.. because of the wall behind the mirror on the sides. The wall needs to go somewhere.. and can't just slide up.. else you'd see it as the mirror expands side to side.

the only way i can see this working is if the mirror sides cover all the travel side to side themselves, and the wall is always 'empty' in those areas.

Just move your section C in front of sections A and B below the wainscoting (chair rail) and you've got it! Section C would be an odd shaped wall...not rectangular but more "square U" shaped.