Let the hate begin - Wheelchair only buses?

[xstech25]

Back in the '80's, Disney did offer on-call, free, lift equipped vans. The were available thru Guest Services for resort and day guests. DW used this service for her handicapped sister in 1988 & 1989.
Of course WC use has exploded since then.

OMG I did not know that but that is just amazing to think that there was a time something like that was actually possible. Can you imagine that board now in 2015 lighting up like a Christmas tree.
Dispatcher: yes...we need a bus like to every park and every resort...thanks.

 

[Goofyernmost]

OMG I did not know that but that is just amazing to think that there was a time something like that was actually possible. Can you imagine that board now in 2015 lighting up like a Christmas tree.
Dispatcher: yes...we need a bus like to every park and every resort...thanks.

Which would be why, it no longer exists. Sometimes the mountain gets to big to climb over. The current system is perfectly workable and just requires a little patience and understanding and a whole lot less suspicion and paranoia.

 

[daisyduckie]

The thing that gets me when people mention wheelchair only buses is--you don't want to have to wait for one or two wheelchairs to load on a bus because of the time it takes, but you think people in wheelchairs should have to wait that amount of time again and again and again and again? Sounds fair.

I also how long it would take for there to be a riot when, at the end of the night, a wheelchair only bus pulls up and able bodied guests try to board, only to be told to get off. I'm sure that would go over really well.

 

[EmmieSue]

The thing that gets me when people mention wheelchair only buses is--you don't want to have to wait for one or two wheelchairs to load on a bus because of the time it takes, but you think people in wheelchairs should have to wait that amount of time again and again and again and again? Sounds fair.

I also how long it would take for there to be a riot when, at the end of the night, a wheelchair only bus pulls up and able bodied guests try to board, only to be told to get off. I'm sure that would go over really well.

I very much agree with you. Those people who complain that those in wheelchairs get loaded onto the buses first don't take into account that they have to wait to be unloaded last. Wheelchair only buses are not practical in Disney World where there are so many resorts and so many different parks all spaced out. Financially it wouldn't be smart. Environmentally it wouldn't be smart. Even if it was done, people would complain that they have them and get even more special treatment.

Really they just need to enforce the max. of three people getting on with the person in the wheelchair. (How does this work in a group with lots of children? Can't leave little kids standing at the stops alone, so if there are only two adults then they would all have to go together. So case by case bases.)

Then maybe some updated, faster and safer loading technology should be added as well as a rule that forces people to have medical documentation that they require the use of a wheelchair or scooter to begin with to weed out the abusers and make it so people aren't judging those who don't appear to need them. I know what an invisible illness is like and the judgement that comes with them. Guests being forced to have documentation would get rid of the "they look fine, they are just abusing the system" mentality.

Those things alone could solve the whole bus people. The rest will have to come from society learning to be patient and accepting/respectful of others.

 

[PhotoDave219]

First off, yes, I travel with a person in a wheelchair and am 100% the rights of the disabled
Second, when in school we petitioned and wrote to all of our politicians to have the Curb Cut Requirement Act of 1976 to be passed

So here goes, we normally travel every year to WDW for 15 days and my partner has had 3 back surgeries and 2 discs removed so by the second or third day he is wheelchair bound
We are only a party of two and use the wheelchair option when boarding the buses back and forth, often putting up with the stares and comments about wheelchair abusers

I have also been on the other end, standing in line for what feels like hours waiting for the bus and then a family of 50 comes along with one wheelchair and they fill half of the bus

Come one, we have all had this same feeling of people abusing the wheelchair system

Why not have a wheelchair only bus? Have one designated bus without any seats that can pick up the chairs and families all at once without delaying bus loading of other passengers?
The buses can have the floor locks like the buses here in NYC to hold the wheels in place.

As a wheelchair family I would more than welcome this, any else agree?

I actually think that's a fantastic idea. I've suggested the same thing a couple times over beer in certain drinking establishments in Orlando.

I think the only person that's going to lose out is the Disney transportation operational people who are going to pull their hair out… But beyond that? It makes perfect sense.

 

[RmeDad]

How about this solution. Keep the buses as they are and educate those not physically challenged to understand the situation of those that are. A little patience goes a long way. Those that are challenged did not choose to be, but must live with what they were dealt.

 

[jaklgreen]

My issue, and I am sure other's issue too, is not the wheelchair bound people but the one who rent an ECV just for Disney trips and have no idea how to drive them. There are way too many ECV drivers that have a hard time driving them onto the bus. I have seen so many almost fall off of the ramp sideways or roll back down that, I think, makes it too dangerous for the average part time ECV user. I am surprised there has not been a law suit against Disney for someone getting hurt loading onto the bus with those things. Since outside companies started to rent those and delivering them to WDW it has become much worse. Although I have to say that in the last couple of years since most queues for the rides have become wheelchair/scooter accessible, I have noticed a decline in ECVs in the parks. On my trip last October there were significantly less ECVs then I had previously noticed.

 

[Flalex72]

I find it interesting that Disney seems to have issues with mobility devices on their buses that other mass transit systems don't have. Disney buses are in no way special compared to any other bus based mass transit system, and there is plenty of experience out there dealing with mobility devices.

Where I live, there is an extensive bus and bus rapid transit network. Wheelchair loading is common, maybe not to the same extent as Disney, but when it happens it not nearly as big a deal. "Regular" mass transit systems have an even bigger issue with trying to reduce dwell time than Disney does, since they are scheduled while Disney buses are not. At home, a bus will pull up to a stop, be ready to load a mobility device in seconds, and be ready to depart in less than a minute or so. There are a few factors that help with this:

The ramp is at the front door.
Most major mass transit systems I've seen seem to prefer this, though there are exceptions. A front ramp means the driver can remain in their seat while the ramp flips out. The rear doors can be smaller, possibly allowing for more seating. The bus only has to kneel to the front, and not to the side as well, simplifying mechanical. An issue with low-floor buses is the space between the front wheels makes it difficult to turn the mobility device, however all three major North American bus manufacturers (Nova, New Flyer and Gillig) produce buses that allow an ADA compliant device to maneuver easily, and all three brands of bus are already operating at Disney World. Disney has certainly tried front ramps before, as almost any manufacturer demo will be equipped with a front ramp, and photos of the articulated demo buses from New Flyer and Nova not too long ago confirm they had front ramps. A front ramp also means the passenger gets to board through the same door as everyone else, so there is no special or different treatment. This can also make it easier to load mobility devices from the same lineup and as everyone else, since as people board they just keep moving back into the bus, not blocking the path of the wheelchair.

Mobility devices face backwards and and not necessarily secured.
This is a major time saver as the driver does not have to get out of their seat to secure the device. This is both a policy and equipment issue. In order to allow devices to ride unsecured, the system has to passively hold the device in place. At home this is accomplished by having wheelchair riders ride facing backwards, and back their device up against a padded backrest behind the wheel well. There are belts available, but I have never seen them in use. Some systems that use this system still require the device to be secured however, for liability or other reasons. In this case, it may be worthwhile for a system like Disney that has a large number of wheelchairs to invest in something like the "Clamp Device" that was mentioned. This type of device does exist, and means the mobility device can be self secured without the help of the driver. You can see it here:
http://www.qstraint.com/en_na/products/transit-solutions/quantum
http://www.qstraint.com/en_na/products/transit-solutions/quantum
http://www.qstraint.com/en_na/products/transit-solutions/quantum
In summary, all of the issues people seem to have with wheelchairs are based on Disney's own decisions. There may be reasons for these decisions we don't know about, but if wheelchair loading is a major issue, then there are ways of making it better without adding an extra fleet of buses.

 

[jloucks]

First off, yes, I travel with a person in a wheelchair and am 100% the rights of the disabled
Second, when in school we petitioned and wrote to all of our politicians to have the Curb Cut Requirement Act of 1976 to be passed

So here goes, we normally travel every year to WDW for 15 days and my partner has had 3 back surgeries and 2 discs removed so by the second or third day he is wheelchair bound
We are only a party of two and use the wheelchair option when boarding the buses back and forth, often putting up with the stares and comments about wheelchair abusers

I have also been on the other end, standing in line for what feels like hours waiting for the bus and then a family of 50 comes along with one wheelchair and they fill half of the bus

Come one, we have all had this same feeling of people abusing the wheelchair system

Why not have a wheelchair only bus? Have one designated bus without any seats that can pick up the chairs and families all at once without delaying bus loading of other passengers?
The buses can have the floor locks like the buses here in NYC to hold the wheels in place.

As a wheelchair family I would more than welcome this, any else agree?

I thought about it actually. But here is the deal. I think wheelchairs are NOT the problem. It is obese lazy non-handicapped people on rented scooters that are the problem. So no, I don't think special buses for fat lazy people is a good idea UNLESS they would be banned from regular buses. Wheelchair people still welcome on regular buses.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

I thought about it actually. But here is the deal. I think wheelchairs are NOT the problem. It is obese lazy non-handicapped people on rented scooters that are the problem. So no, I don't think special buses for fat lazy people is a good idea UNLESS they would be banned from regular buses. Wheelchair people still welcome on regular buses.

 

[jloucks]

 

[Mawg]

I've gone with my nephew who is in a wheel chair. Overall, I would say Disney it typically pretty fair with how they handle wheelchairs and overall does a better job than anyone else. It's the guests that typically don't handle wheel chairs. Yes, I've seen a wheel chair roll up and get right on when others have been waiting and may miss the bus, on the flip side I've seen many wheel chairs waiting and busses full and they keep having to wait for multiple buses before they get on. The problem is you have guests who are either tiered and want to get back to the resort or anxious and want to get to the parks either way it makes for grumpy guests who start to lose their cool easy when things don't go their way.

The buses don't have a lot of room for Wheel Chairs, they simply have to squeeze one or two on if they are there regardless of how long they have waited as the next bus may not have room or already have wheel chairs on it.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I find it interesting that Disney seems to have issues with mobility devices on their buses that other mass transit systems don't have. Disney buses are in no way special compared to any other bus based mass transit system, and there is plenty of experience out there dealing with mobility devices.

Where I live, there is an extensive bus and bus rapid transit network. Wheelchair loading is common, maybe not to the same extent as Disney, but when it happens it not nearly as big a deal. "Regular" mass transit systems have an even bigger issue with trying to reduce dwell time than Disney does, since they are scheduled while Disney buses are not. At home, a bus will pull up to a stop, be ready to load a mobility device in seconds, and be ready to depart in less than a minute or so. There are a few factors that help with this:

The ramp is at the front door.
Most major mass transit systems I've seen seem to prefer this, though there are exceptions. A front ramp means the driver can remain in their seat while the ramp flips out. The rear doors can be smaller, possibly allowing for more seating. The bus only has to kneel to the front, and not to the side as well, simplifying mechanical. An issue with low-floor buses is the space between the front wheels makes it difficult to turn the mobility device, however all three major North American bus manufacturers (Nova, New Flyer and Gillig) produce buses that allow an ADA compliant device to maneuver easily, and all three brands of bus are already operating at Disney World. Disney has certainly tried front ramps before, as almost any manufacturer demo will be equipped with a front ramp, and photos of the articulated demo buses from New Flyer and Nova not too long ago confirm they had front ramps. A front ramp also means the passenger gets to board through the same door as everyone else, so there is no special or different treatment. This can also make it easier to load mobility devices from the same lineup and as everyone else, since as people board they just keep moving back into the bus, not blocking the path of the wheelchair.

Mobility devices face backwards and and not necessarily secured.
This is a major time saver as the driver does not have to get out of their seat to secure the device. This is both a policy and equipment issue. In order to allow devices to ride unsecured, the system has to passively hold the device in place. At home this is accomplished by having wheelchair riders ride facing backwards, and back their device up against a padded backrest behind the wheel well. There are belts available, but I have never seen them in use. Some systems that use this system still require the device to be secured however, for liability or other reasons. In this case, it may be worthwhile for a system like Disney that has a large number of wheelchairs to invest in something like the "Clamp Device" that was mentioned. This type of device does exist, and means the mobility device can be self secured without the help of the driver. You can see it here:
http://www.qstraint.com/en_na/products/transit-solutions/quantum
In summary, all of the issues people seem to have with wheelchairs are based on Disney's own decisions. There may be reasons for these decisions we don't know about, but if wheelchair loading is a major issue, then there are ways of making it better without adding an extra fleet of buses.

Where I live (Phila/Southern NJ) wheelchairs also board via the front door and need to move just past the front wheels to be secured in the bus, as you describe, although they have them face forwards, which isn't the issue. The issue is when the bus is already full or mostly full, and the 8 seats in the front of the bus as well as the flip up seats at the securement location(s) need to be vacated for the wheelchair to even think of boarding. This happens often and can cause the bus to instantly become 10-15 minutes or more behind schedule - 5 minutes or more to load, and then 5 minutes or more to unload, as all of the people need to move again. They do have some scheduled buses just for wheelchairs but they also need to provide access on the regular lines too.

 

[daisyduckie]

I thought about it actually. But here is the deal. I think wheelchairs are NOT the problem. It is obese lazy non-handicapped people on rented scooters that are the problem. So no, I don't think special buses for fat lazy people is a good idea UNLESS they would be banned from regular buses. Wheelchair people still welcome on regular buses.

And just how exactly would you determine who is just "fat and lazy" and who are really deserving of a wheelchair?

I've read all sorts of crazy posts, and your has to be the most crazy. Which is why I am hoping/guessing it is a joke. No one could really be that simple minded/rude/lacking in compassion.

 

[ZachS]

Over the course of a week I'd say that wheelchairs keep us from getting on a bus once or twice. Even then its not the wheelchair that usually does it, it's all the people traveling with the person in the wheelchair.

I don't think there is a solution that would make everyone completely happy.

We also have heard two people in ECVs talking about how great it is that they can go on vacation and pretty much not walk at all. They teased the third person they were with for not renting one too. The things they said made it clear there was nothing wrong with them. After listening to this it made it very hard to not think about every time we saw someone in an ECV. I'd like to think that the vast majority of people who use them really do need them but times like that make me wonder.

 

[wm49rs]

And just how exactly would you determine who is just "fat and lazy" and who are really deserving of a wheelchair?

I've read all sorts of crazy posts, and your has to be the most crazy. Which is why I am hoping/guessing it is a joke. No one could really be that simple minded/rude/lacking in compassion.

Never underestimate....

 

[JohnD]

Your motivations are good. I just don't think it will work out practically.

When a "regular" bus comes first, are those in a wheelchair allowed to board? What happens if not? How long is the wait for the wheelchair bus? When the wheelchair bus comes, are able-bodied people allowed to board? How many people can a wheelchair bus hold anyway? What will the reactions be of able-bodied people who can't board?

I suspect it would generate more hostility than not. Better to accommodate disabled people on every bus with everyone having the expectation they should be able to board until the bus is full then wait for the next one, if it comes to that.

 

[NormC]

How about a flatbed and ponchos if it is raining? Again, I am only kidding! Don't hit me with your selfie sticks.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I find it interesting that Disney seems to have issues with mobility devices on their buses that other mass transit systems don't have. Disney buses are in no way special compared to any other bus based mass transit system, and there is plenty of experience out there dealing with mobility devices.

Where I live, there is an extensive bus and bus rapid transit network. Wheelchair loading is common, maybe not to the same extent as Disney, but when it happens it not nearly as big a deal. "Regular" mass transit systems have an even bigger issue with trying to reduce dwell time than Disney does, since they are scheduled while Disney buses are not. At home, a bus will pull up to a stop, be ready to load a mobility device in seconds, and be ready to depart in less than a minute or so. There are a few factors that help with this:

The ramp is at the front door.
Most major mass transit systems I've seen seem to prefer this, though there are exceptions. A front ramp means the driver can remain in their seat while the ramp flips out. The rear doors can be smaller, possibly allowing for more seating. The bus only has to kneel to the front, and not to the side as well, simplifying mechanical. An issue with low-floor buses is the space between the front wheels makes it difficult to turn the mobility device, however all three major North American bus manufacturers (Nova, New Flyer and Gillig) produce buses that allow an ADA compliant device to maneuver easily, and all three brands of bus are already operating at Disney World. Disney has certainly tried front ramps before, as almost any manufacturer demo will be equipped with a front ramp, and photos of the articulated demo buses from New Flyer and Nova not too long ago confirm they had front ramps. A front ramp also means the passenger gets to board through the same door as everyone else, so there is no special or different treatment. This can also make it easier to load mobility devices from the same lineup and as everyone else, since as people board they just keep moving back into the bus, not blocking the path of the wheelchair.

Mobility devices face backwards and and not necessarily secured.
This is a major time saver as the driver does not have to get out of their seat to secure the device. This is both a policy and equipment issue. In order to allow devices to ride unsecured, the system has to passively hold the device in place. At home this is accomplished by having wheelchair riders ride facing backwards, and back their device up against a padded backrest behind the wheel well. There are belts available, but I have never seen them in use. Some systems that use this system still require the device to be secured however, for liability or other reasons. In this case, it may be worthwhile for a system like Disney that has a large number of wheelchairs to invest in something like the "Clamp Device" that was mentioned. This type of device does exist, and means the mobility device can be self secured without the help of the driver. You can see it here:
http://www.qstraint.com/en_na/products/transit-solutions/quantum
In summary, all of the issues people seem to have with wheelchairs are based on Disney's own decisions. There may be reasons for these decisions we don't know about, but if wheelchair loading is a major issue, then there are ways of making it better without adding an extra fleet of buses.

Two things that I would like to comment on if I could... First being about the front loading ramps. There are very few full sized buses being made any more that aren't front loading. They are building them much closer to the ground level now by sacrificing some of the seating space and split leveling the interior toward the back to clear the rear axle. Also, the load still has to wait because the chairs have to be secured in place. I believe that is the law, but, even if it's not... no insurance company would cover a carrier that doesn't secure them in place, manually.

Second, the clamps that you talk about are actually old time in concept. However, there are now thousands of different designed wheelchairs on the market. All with different wheelbases, different configurations and different sizes. They range anywhere from the old standard sized wheelchair to massive self propelled chairs that actually can speed down the road nearly keeping up with regular traffic and, of course, the much aligned ETV. The one's shown in that link don't look all that secure to me, especially in an emergency stop.

And just how exactly would you determine who is just "fat and lazy" and who are really deserving of a wheelchair?

I've read all sorts of crazy posts, and your has to be the most crazy. Which is why I am hoping/guessing it is a joke. No one could really be that simple minded/rude/lacking in compassion.

I doubt that they are joking. Their minds are made up. They see someone overweight and decide that they are not disabled, they are just overweight. Shame on those fatties for letting themselves get like that. They fail to see anything beyond their own tunnel vision and possibly unable to wonder if they got fat because they were disabled and unable to be mobile enough to keep their weight down. But, even if it was true, once one does get very large, they really are disabled, in as much as their mobility is greatly impaired. Is that their fault, sometimes yes, but, so what? If they need the help to enjoy life, I cannot see any reason why they should be denied that.

Over the course of a week I'd say that wheelchairs keep us from getting on a bus once or twice. Even then its not the wheelchair that usually does it, it's all the people traveling with the person in the wheelchair.

I don't think there is a solution that would make everyone completely happy.

We also have heard two people in ECVs talking about how great it is that they can go on vacation and pretty much not walk at all. They teased the third person they were with for not renting one too. The things they said made it clear there was nothing wrong with them. After listening to this it made it very hard to not think about every time we saw someone in an ECV. I'd like to think that the vast majority of people who use them really do need them but times like that make me wonder.

The number of people traveling with the person is not only not relevant, but, is usually not as bad as the whiners make it out to be. Suppose you are standing in line, no wheelchairs involved, and the group in front of you is a family of 12 that are traveling together. They all get on the bus at the same time, possibly not leaving any room for you. Are they evil and bothersome because they want to stay with their families? Doing that would cause you a delay and, heck, what do they think, that they own Disney.

The talk that you "heard" might very well have been just someone teasing the others that had to walk. I doubt that the persons saying it, didn't have a legitimate reason for being in one. I know I would have said something like that when I needed to have one due to a leg injury. The best solution to the whole problem is, and I have stated this many times, live ones own life, stop spending time trying to judge others, have just a small amount of compassion for the people that are not as lucky and if one is unable to do that... rent a d-amn car and drive your lazy butts to the park.

 

[keylimesqueeze]

My wife,daughter and I travel with my mom who cannot walk far distances or stand for a prolonged period of time and uses a wheelchair. Therefore,we use the wheelchair line to board the bus. We get on and get mom seated and do not use seats ourselves...we stand unless there are seats available. We feel guilty "cutting" in front of others. Others that board with their party may want to consider doing the same. We've seen countless others get on the bus with their party in the wheelchair line and just sit anywhere not having any consideration for women or little children or seniors getting onboard at the front door thus making them have to stand when the bus is full. Drives me nuts!