Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[TheMaxRebo]

This is an exaggeration. We landed around 2 pm recently. By 4 pm, we were in Typhoon Lagoon and got to enjoy two hours there. Sure, many won’t be able to benefit from it, but it’s a nice perk if the timing works out.

We have been doing a late flight in and stay at a hotel near the airport and then have the next full day as our "checking day" to use the water park perk and get settled.

Obviously won't work for everyone but definitely ways to make the perk work

 

[Splash4eva]

I posted this three years ago and it's worse today than it was then ...

1982 (opening of EPCOT):
One Day Ticket = $15
Annual Pass = $100

Adjusted for Inflation in 2022 (1982 prices):
One Day Ticket = $45
Annual Pass = $303

Actual Ticket Prices in 2022:
One Day Ticket = $124 ($189 over peak Christmas)
One Day Parkhopper = $194 ($268 over peak Christmas)
Annual Pass = $1490


And this ....

WDW used to be much, much more affordable. From the day the Magic Kingdom opened until EPCOT Center opened, a park ticket (adjusted for today's inflation) was about $25 a day. When EPCOT opened, the price jumped to about $40 a day (in today's prices). It steadily rose through the 80s and was about $65 all through the 1990s. The big greedy increase occurred from 2000 to 2010 when the price (in today's dollars) went from $70 to $100. Ten years later, we're now at $130. If park tickets today were the same value as they were in 1982 (start of EPCOT), they'd be $40, not $130.

And that's just the park tickets. Factor increases in costs for food, hotels, parking, merchandise, after-hours extra ticket celebrations, reduced hours of operation, etc. They are intentionally pricing the middle-class out of the parks.

Another example: In 1982, the annual pass was $100. In today's dollars, that would be $280, not $1,300.

All jokes aside a product appreciates just like anything else Disney product has become more in demand & they adjust for that impressive product & ip they have. Are you really trying to make a case Disney should only charge an AP rate of 280 even if only for MK/EC?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

All jokes aside a product appreciates just like anything else Disney product has become more in demand & they adjust for that impressive product & ip they have. Are you really trying to make a case Disney should only charge an AP rate of 280 even if only for MK/EC?

The truth is in the Middle…

Is “textbook” inflation accurate? No

Have they increased the price ahead of means and their market over time? Absolutely

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Are you really trying to make a case Disney should only charge an AP rate of 280 even if only for MK/EC?

That's exactly the case I am making, for a variety of reasons, but the most important being ...

1. They have priced the middle-class out of the parks, that means millions of middle-class children who aren't attending the parks every couple years and who will never build the affinity for the parks. Thirty years from now, this will result in the epic amount of goodwill and nostalgia that Disney has been living off of since the turn of the century being completely diminished. Couple that with their emphasis on entering the culture war and that goodwill will be next to impossible to get back, and

2. Disney used to be smart enough to get as many human beings into the parks as possible (charging low entrance prices and keeping annual pass costs low), knowing that once they got them into the parks (and then later, once they got them onto the resort property and kept them there) they would make far more money on food and merchandise (and later, hotel costs). This is how you maintain a reasonable gross income from the parks division, while growing your long-term fanbase and goodwill.

Neither of these is new. This is the model Disney operated on until the late 1990s - and they have just doubled-down and doubled-down and doubled-down ever since. The bill is coming due.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

That's exactly the case I am making, for a variety of reasons, but the most important being ...

1. They have priced the middle-class out of the parks, that means millions of middle-class children who aren't attending the parks every couple years and who will never build the affinity for the parks. Thirty years from now, this will result in the epic amount of goodwill and nostalgia that Disney has been living off of since the turn of the century being completely diminished. Couple that with their emphasis on entering the culture war and that goodwill will be next to impossible to get back, and

2. Disney used to be smart enough to get as many human beings into the parks as possible (charging low entrance prices and keeping annual pass costs low), knowing that once they got them into the parks (and then later, once they got them onto the resort property and kept them there) they would make far more money on food and merchandise (and later, hotel costs). This is how you maintain a reasonable gross income from the parks division, while growing your long-term fanbase and goodwill.

Neither of these is new. This is the model Disney operated on until the late 1990s - and they have just doubled-down and doubled-down and doubled-down ever since. The bill is coming due.

Disney isn't stupid in the age of technology. Do you know what absolutely began dominating our way of life in the 90s? They put their chips into the internet age and its worked well for them. Fandom culture is massive. People don't have to experience the Disney parks anymore to be a Disney fan, or heck even a Disney parks fan. I do know of a few Disney parks fans who love the Disney parks stuff and will buy HM stuff but haven't even set foot in a Disney park.

Plus the days of online reviews and vlogs. You stuff those parks and everyone complains about overcrowding and you get a park like Epic that is technically impressive but to the average guest, a fairly weak offering because it cannot handle the capacity. Disney is appealing primarily to the once in a lifetime people who want to see EVERYTHING in one shot or the fandom people who will pay top dollar to ensure they get the full experience they want. That's the current market.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Disney is appealing primarily to the once in a lifetime people who want to see EVERYTHING in one shot or the fandom people who will pay top dollar to ensure they get the full experience they want. That's the current market.

We know this. We are saying it is bad. We are saying it is not in the longterm interests of the company.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

We know this. We are saying it is bad. We are saying it is not in the longterm interests of the company.

Yes I got that impression. But the technology age as it currently stands is not going anywhere and I don't see a way where we go back to reviews only being through word of mouth. As it stands, when the parks are crowded, people have a bad time. The average person at Disney wants the ability to do just about everything they want in a week. This is currently possible. Overstuffing the parks to drive up the revenue and slashing the ticket prices makes this harder. I can just say right now, flat out. I would GLADLY pay more for a park ticket to not deal with a capacity filled park every day.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Yes I got that impression. But the technology age as it currently stands is not going anywhere and I don't see a way where we go back to reviews only being through word of mouth. As it stands, when the parks are crowded, people have a bad time. The average person at Disney wants the ability to do just about everything they want in a week. This is currently possible. Overstuffing the parks to drive up the revenue and slashing the ticket prices makes this harder. I can just say right now, flat out. I would GLADLY pay more for a park ticket to not deal with a capacity filled park every day.

That's why I said the solution was to build more parks and more resorts two decades ago (and a decade ago, and five years ago, and last year, and last week ...). If you build more parks, capacity increases.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney has been notoriously…almost laughably bad at technology and navigating changing social movements.

So now they have gone full bore on letting amateur “influencers” represent them…

Which is working so well that they are mocking “Disney adults” in newspapers and on places like morning sports talk shows in Boston on a weekly basis with disdain.

They can’t control the tech “beast” they have unleashed here either…as per pattern.

They are not good at technology…they never have been…and never will be

 

[monothingie]

Disney isn't stupid in the age of technology. Do you know what absolutely began dominating our way of life in the 90s? They put their chips into the internet age and its worked well for them. Fandom culture is massive. People don't have to experience the Disney parks anymore to be a Disney fan, or heck even a Disney parks fan. I do know of a few Disney parks fans who love the Disney parks stuff and will buy HM stuff but haven't even set foot in a Disney park.

What are you talking about?

The shill social media sellouts are mocked and not taken seriously anymore. Everyone of those grifters that bent a knee to the mouse in exchange for access and swag are now seen for just enriching themselves and their brand. It's a joke TBH. It's only a matter of time before Disney moves on and starts cutting them out.

Plus the days of online reviews and vlogs. You stuff those parks and everyone complains about overcrowding and you get a park like Epic that is technically impressive but to the average guest, a fairly weak offering because it cannot handle the capacity. Disney is appealing primarily to the once in a lifetime people who want to see EVERYTHING in one shot or the fandom people who will pay top dollar to ensure they get the full experience they want. That's the current market.

None of those demos you describe are participating in sufficient quantity to make a difference. The Disney Adults, Lifestylers, etc. can not support a family focused themed resort. Yes the per guest spending is higher, but that's not sustainable in the long term to drive growth, especially when you've done everything in your power to chase away your core guest.
Disney is not appealing to a whole lot of people right now because the parks have been and continue to be dead. The emptiness which accelerated in FYQ1 2025 (October 1 - Dec 31 2024) should have been a massive flag that things weren't right, and they only got worse.

 

[FutureCEO]

I've talked to several travel agents that always have a few stories of being fearful of relaying the price of a trip only to hear "ok, that sounds fine" - definitely enough people out there willing to spend money

It amazes me the travel agent industry is as big as it is

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What are you talking about?

The shill social media sellouts are mocked and not taken seriously anymore. Everyone of those grifters that bent a knee to the mouse in exchange for access and swag are now seen for just enriching themselves and their brand. It's a joke TBH. It's only a matter of time before Disney moves on and starts cutting them out.

None of those demos you describe are participating in sufficient quantity to make a difference. The Disney Adults, Lifestylers, etc. can not support a family focused themed resort. Yes the per guest spending is higher, but that's not sustainable in the long term to drive growth, especially when you've done everything in your power to chase away your core guest.
Disney is not appealing to a whole lot of people right now because the parks have been and continue to be dead. The emptiness which accelerated in FYQ1 2025 (October 1 - Dec 31 2024) should have been a massive flag that things weren't right, and they only got worse.

But the parks aren’t empty…

The fact that you and I are there to see it is irrelevant…

22 year olds who don’t live on their own and aren’t actually on the ground say so…based on a wealth of life experience

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It amazes me the travel agent industry is as big as it is

It’s been in steep decline for 20+ years
The rise of online “agencies” injected some new life into the concept…but even those are starting to privately say things are softening substantially

 

[monothingie]

But the parks aren’t empty…

The fact that you and I are there to see it is irrelevant…

22 year olds who don’t live on their own and aren’t actually on the ground say so…based on a wealth of life experience

The OG Disney Social Media Influencer.

 

[Splash4eva]

That's exactly the case I am making, for a variety of reasons, but the most important being ...

1. They have priced the middle-class out of the parks, that means millions of middle-class children who aren't attending the parks every couple years and who will never build the affinity for the parks. Thirty years from now, this will result in the epic amount of goodwill and nostalgia that Disney has been living off of since the turn of the century being completely diminished. Couple that with their emphasis on entering the culture war and that goodwill will be next to impossible to get back, and

2. Disney used to be smart enough to get as many human beings into the parks as possible (charging low entrance prices and keeping annual pass costs low), knowing that once they got them into the parks (and then later, once they got them onto the resort property and kept them there) they would make far more money on food and merchandise (and later, hotel costs). This is how you maintain a reasonable gross income from the parks division, while growing your long-term fanbase and goodwill.

Neither of these is new. This is the model Disney operated on until the late 1990s - and they have just doubled-down and doubled-down and doubled-down ever since. The bill is coming due.

Altho i dont disagree totally with you and as a company you want as many guests as possible especially ones for future visits to say they have priced out a section of society to me is inaccurate. People are still going. Todays generation and society just charges everything and Worries about it later to an even greater degree than ever. Do i agree with their business model not totally do i think they have missed out on more money 100% but i also think they are perfectly fine and content with how they run their parks. Whats sad is that they can expand and charge extra and people will still come will still pay for all these up charge events and offers and imo they generate even more money and profit

 

[KDM31091]

What are you talking about?

The shill social media sellouts are mocked and not taken seriously anymore. Everyone of those grifters that bent a knee to the mouse in exchange for access and swag are now seen for just enriching themselves and their brand. It's a joke TBH. It's only a matter of time before Disney moves on and starts cutting them out.

None of those demos you describe are participating in sufficient quantity to make a difference. The Disney Adults, Lifestylers, etc. can not support a family focused themed resort. Yes the per guest spending is higher, but that's not sustainable in the long term to drive growth, especially when you've done everything in your power to chase away your core guest.
Disney is not appealing to a whole lot of people right now because the parks have been and continue to be dead. The emptiness which accelerated in FYQ1 2025 (October 1 - Dec 31 2024) should have been a massive flag that things weren't right, and they only got worse.

That and unless you are very upper middle class you simply can't afford to go to the parks weekly, pay top dollar for expensive food, expensive merch, LLs, etc...you just can't, unless you have no bills to pay or something. Either that or folks are just running up massive credit card debt. The average family can't just have a $1,000 park day on a whim. The Youtubers who got in early and built a big following sure, they're doing okay and making a living, but I don't know that many of them are making enough to justify the amount of spending they do on camera. Some of it is still self funded. If/when they have to cut back on spending it will cause that whole niche to go downhill, which it kind of already has due to being oversaturated. So many people have a device in their face instead of just enjoying the parks. It feels like there are 100 vloggers covering the same exact content. At some point the bubble will burst. Also most if not all vloggers are locals and probably not often staying in the hotels, so Disney still needs to pull in "regular" people.

The whole "parks are dead" thing seems to happen every August/September and the same argument is made every time. I think the real test will be Q4.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That and unless you are very upper middle class you simply can't afford to go to the parks weekly, pay top dollar for expensive food, expensive merch, LLs, etc...you just can't, unless you have no bills to pay or something. Either that or folks are just running up massive credit card debt. The average family can't just have a $1,000 park day on a whim. The Youtubers who got in early and built a big following sure, they're doing okay and making a living, but I don't know that many of them are making enough to justify the amount of spending they do on camera. Some of it is still self funded. If/when they have to cut back on spending it will cause that whole niche to go downhill, which it kind of already has due to being oversaturated. So many people have a device in their face instead of just enjoying the parks. It feels like there are 100 vloggers covering the same exact content. At some point the bubble will burst. Also most if not all vloggers are locals and probably not often staying in the hotels, so Disney still needs to pull in "regular" people.

Remember the vloggers aren’t paying either…so they by definition represent a “false reality”

Disney gives them access in exchange for free advertising…

But it’s not a “real market” for AJ from the Disney food blog to be in Epcot every Saturday and sample what would cost $350 in food booth finger foods as if that’s what “people do”. Not in the demographics that are sliding.

So someone from Ohio watches and
Says…let’s book it!

Then they go on the website and the total for 7 days at pop with tickets, lunch at pecos bills, a pretzel and a mug is $6000 before travel costs.

That’s the disconnect and what’s causing a huge public backlash that’s under the surface but is starting to surface more and more

 

[Splash4eva]

Remember the vloggers aren’t paying either…so they by definition represent a “false reality”

Disney gives them access in exchange for free advertising…

But it’s not a “real market” for AJ from the Disney food blog to be in Epcot every Saturday and sample what would cost $350 in food booth finger foods as if that’s what “people do”. Not in the demographics that are sliding.

So someone from Ohio watches and
Says…let’s book it!

Then they go on the website and the total for 7 days at pop with tickets, lunch at pecos bills, a pretzel and a mug is $6000 before travel costs.

That’s the disconnect and what’s causing a huge public backlash that under the surfaces but is starting to surface more and more

Are all these bloggers/vloggers getting a full free ride tho? I thought if that was the case they need to disclose that if they are hosted /getting things free etc?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Are all these bloggers/vloggers getting a full free ride tho? I thought if that was the case they need to disclose that if they are hosted /getting things free etc?

If they have a following?…PR picks up on it and gives them entry at a minimum…press days often if not always feature giveaways as well…under the loose banner of “sales/product development”. But they don’t show that…because their marching orders in exchange for these things are SPECIFICALLY to portray it as common man.

Just your average 27 year old with no history on a $1000+ a day bender in the park. Because who doesn’t do that?

But some are more careful than others…Disney is more strict I think?

When epic opened…some of the travel/food bloggers showed the free buffets at the presses event days in the background…as they made it look like they were going walking up to their 40 quick serves and buying this stuff.

Sloppy and you could see right behind the curtain

 

[bmr1591]

I'm not going to argue whether things are overpriced because I fully agree. But let me ask this:

What price should a week at Disney be? What's the number that a family of four should be able to come and stay at a value resort, do four to five days of parks, eat, souvenirs, the whole thing? At what point does that family who is middle class say "This is reasonable. Let's book."?