Large Piece Falls off Monorail - Being Evacuated

[Nubs70]

Sure they have rigid procedures. Rigid procedures aren't everything though. Cosmetic issues are a sign of cutting corners, not directly related. The point is something not being painted doesn't directly mean that it's unsafe but rather is an indication of the quality of work and more importantly the work ethic of the company as a whole. The maintenance person who when fixing a door decides the door access panel is a little too worn and needs to be replaced is far more likely to have done a thorough and better job fixing the door. The maintenance manager who takes pride in his department's work is far more likely to allow that maintenance person to spend some extra time and do the job right and maybe keep somebody on shift in overtime to cover for him. The executive who cares about the safety and maintenance of the company is far more likely not to reprimand that manager for going over budget to fix some things the right way.

I've seen all this first hand. I've called in minor issues on a train and had a maintenance person end up dissembling half the cab while I drove as they uncovered problem after problem but insisted on fixing things the right way. I've also seen serious things be dismissed and saved for the next shift.

Let me give you an example. One day a monorail was coming into service and had a door indicate it was open. The sensor was bad. Now the right thing would have been to replace the sensor. Someone decided since it was a cab door the pilot would be there and would know if it opened and so disconnecting the sensor would solve the problem and the next shift could fix it. All was fine until the driver switched ends to take the train back for the night. The door didn't quite stay closed and flung open as the train exited the GF station. Door was ripped backwards by the railing and train went on its way with no indication of any problems.

Unfortunately in my time there as I noticed the cosmetic issues go unnadressd I also noted the same shift in how maintenance issues were handled. Add to that ever increasing procedures that come about after every accident all without additional staffing and these things compound themselves.

I found that electricians had disabled warning lights and torque alarms as the alarms were a nuisance . 8 years later, torque limiter should have tripped but did not because it was disabled resulting in $15MM damage.

 

[s8film40]

There is no money saving when your pockets are as deep as Disney's. They don't employ a room full of Lawyers trying to prevent lawsuits and then get reckless with safety.

I wonder how much they saved using that cheap rope on the Columbia?

 

[Uncle Lupe]

Rip smurf ride . I loved Hannah Barbera land! It's Peanuts now, and the smurf ride is a dark shooting ride where the cars turn you from side to side.
If you have a chance to go back then definitely do! Diamond Back and Banshee are incredible and very smooth! Flight of Fear and Firehawk are also amazing. I think The Beast at night is still my favorite though.

We're leaving in 5 minutes to head to "Mystic Timbers Tuesday". Park is open from 10-11 for gold and platinum only- and only that ride. I'm hoping we get to go on it more than once! We've been on it 3 times so far ranging from 204 minute wait to our shortest of 65 minutes.
Wish us luck for no lines tonight!!

That one looks crazy for a wooden coaster. I think the "what's in the shed" was a goof in the pr dept. It's a beautiful night here 2.5 hrs east of ya. Bring tooth picks to get the bugs out your teeth after riding at night.

 

[21stamps]

That one looks crazy for a wooden coaster. I think the "what's in the shed" was a goof in the pr dept. It's a beautiful night here 2.5 hrs east of ya. Bring tooth picks to get the bugs out your teeth after riding at night.

Ha ha. Will do! 2.6 hours.. then you must get soon!

It's beautiful here too.. I'm actually wearing a light sweater. Leaving now. Hopefully no one else checked their email

 

[larryz]

Another mistaken belief is that preventive maintenance means replacing parts before anything happens. That is not preventive maintenance. PM is checking, greasing, testing, inspecting and many other checklist type functions. That will not always identify a part that is about to break because just like people, they are alive until they are dead. And you can go to the Doctors today, get a clean bill of health and be dead tomorrow. Ones heart beats until it stops. Machines are not exception. If they cut back on "expenses" what it usually means is that they no longer through money away on things that aren't yet broken. That is just foolishness.

PM includes greasing, checking tolerances, etc. But here's a true story -- I had a brother-in-law who was hired by a major plastic bottle manufacturer. The first thing he noticed was that their machines were breaking down frequently but irregularly. After asking around, he figured out the only thing they were doing as part of their PMI program was lubricating the wear points they could see. After pointing out all the wear points they couldn't see without taking the machine apart, and pointing out how it was cheaper to replace certain wear parts on a regular basis rather than waiting for sporadic breakdowns (which entails significant cost and downtime to tear a machine apart to fix), they agreed with him that it was decidedly less expensive to periodically tear the machines down on a schedule they could control and replace the wear parts AT THE SAME TIME, before they failed. The program worked so well, they promoted him to floor manager.

(And then, once the culture of PREVENTIVE maintenance had been deeply ingrained on the plant floor, they fired him.)

 

[larryz]

I wonder how much they saved using that cheap rope on the Columbia?

I believe it was the cleat on the ship that pulled free, striking the CM and two guests... I don't think "cheap rope" had anything to do with it, although it didn't break as it was intended to.

 

[Cesar R M]

I wonder how much they saved using that cheap rope on the Columbia?

Or not repairing many attractions until they were literally falling apart with serious loss of life if continued.

 

[Movielover]

However, this is the daily safety procedure...as well as mechanics walking each coaster every single morning.

There are many safety features that go into keeping you safe on each and every ride at Kings Island. From the maintenance inspections every morning before park opening to the countless hours of training that each ride associate receives prior operating the ride.

Every morning before a ride can run test cycles, the Kings Island maintenance team looks over everything. From making sure the seatbelts are in good working order, all the way down to each nut and bolt on the train. If anything doesn’t look how it should, the mechanics correct the problem and continue their inspection. Once all parts are approved, the test cycles begin. Maintenance will run what is called a Blocks Test to ensure all safety features are working properly. Blocks tests include trying to dispatch a train with an unlocked restraint or the loading gates open, trying to dispatch a train to an area that another train is already in, and making sure the train doesn’t dispatch when the dual-dispatch button isn’t being pressed. When the mechanics complete their blocks test, the ride operators perform the test again to double check each safety feature. The ride operators performing this test aren’t new kids on the block. They’ve been around the ride for multiple seasons, have worked hundreds of hours at that ride and know it like the back of their hand.

These safety features are controlled by the programmable logic controllers, or the PLC. The PLC controls everything on the ride. The regulate the ride’s speed, ensure that no two trains come too close to each other and alert operators of any technical glitches or track obstructions. The PLC eliminates the possibility of the ride leaving the station with an unsecured restraint or the ride attendant forgetting to apply the brakes.

I spend a lot of time at this park, with my child. Some days we go for an hour, ride 3 rides and leave. Some days we spend 3 hours, somedays we stay from morning to close. I do not think whitewashing that has worn away has anything to indicate that I am putting either one of our lives at risk while there.

Disney has a budget MUCH larger than the park I am quoting. I can not believe that their safety standards, with a much higher volume of people, and the some of the type of people they attract (meaning scared if anything goes wrong), would have any less rigid procedure than the one above.

I can confirm everything in this post since I had to do those checks every morning for 3 summers. I can also say that we always had tons of cosmetic issues on the rides, these would always take a second place to actual structural/safety issues.

 

[Goofyernmost]

PM includes greasing, checking tolerances, etc. But here's a true story -- I had a brother-in-law who was hired by a major plastic bottle manufacturer. The first thing he noticed was that their machines were breaking down frequently but irregularly. After asking around, he figured out the only thing they were doing as part of their PMI program was lubricating the wear points they could see. After pointing out all the wear points they couldn't see without taking the machine apart, and pointing out how it was cheaper to replace certain wear parts on a regular basis rather than waiting for sporadic breakdowns (which entails significant cost and downtime to tear a machine apart to fix), they agreed with him that it was decidedly less expensive to periodically tear the machines down on a schedule they could control and replace the wear parts AT THE SAME TIME, before they failed. The program worked so well, they promoted him to floor manager.

(And then, once the culture of PREVENTIVE maintenance had been deeply ingrained on the plant floor, they fired him.)

Nice story, however, I'm not sure what the moral of it is. Were lives in danger? Or did they just stop making plastic bottles until it was fixed? Kind of a apples to sail boats comparison.

Or not repairing many attractions until they were literally falling apart with serious loss of life if continued.

Or none of us, including myself, have a clue about their maintenance procedures and are just guessing based on our current overall opinion of a situation that is more then likely a fluke happening not related to maintenance at all. But, we shouldn't let our lack of knowledge influence our hate dialog.

 

[larryz]

Nice story, however, I'm not sure what the moral of it is.

It's a counterpoint to your assertion that PMI doesn't involve replacing parts before they break, because it does -- ask any major organization with lots of equipment and an effective PMI program.

Or none of us, including myself, have a clue about their maintenance procedures and are just guessing based on our current overall opinion of a situation that is more then likely a fluke happening not related to maintenance at all. But, we shouldn't let our lack of knowledge influence our hate dialog.

Yeah, a lot of this discussion is based on conjecture, but it's conjecture based on previous patterns of behavior reported at Disney and empirical evidence of ride and transport breakdowns. As for "hate" -- you and I know nobody here "hates" Disney. But if saying that makes you feel better, so be it.

 

[s8film40]

I believe it was the cleat on the ship that pulled free, striking the CM and two guests... I don't think "cheap rope" had anything to do with it, although it didn't break as it was intended to.

Yeah it was later discovered they had switched to a cheaper rope that was too elastic which contributed to the accident. They received a fine for using the wrong type of rope.

In any case the point was many people have come into this thread stating something to the affect that the whole idea that Disney would cut costs leading to a tragic disaster is crazy because it would cost more in the long run. While the truth is they've done that very thing many times.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It's a counterpoint to your assertion that PMI doesn't involve replacing parts before they break, because it does -- ask any major organization with lots of equipment and an effective PMI program.

Yeah, a lot of this discussion is based on conjecture, but it's conjecture based on previous patterns of behavior reported at Disney and empirical evidence of ride and transport breakdowns. As for "hate" -- you and I know nobody here "hates" Disney. But if saying that makes you feel better, so be it.

Well, some parts that are susceptible to breakage maybe part of a PM program, but, surely you don't assume that it covers all the thousands of parts that are involved with operating a monorail. That would just be foolishness. Maybe we would like to think that is how a business is run, but, it is not. As far as the hate part is was a bit of hyperbole, but, for good reason. When a group of people, and it is a consistent grouping, are constantly at the ready to scream out that Disney doesn't do maintenance the moment anything happens in the form of mechanical failure, then yes it is hate or for lack of a better way of putting it and constant and persistent attempt to discredit something that they know nothing about.

Just because a few people that happen to work for Disney and have a degree or almost a degree in advanced basket weaving does not make them experts on keeping high use vehicles constantly free from problems. For one thing it is impossible. For another thing, most of the people that are positive that Disney doesn't care are not even people that work at Disney. They are people who have heard from this guy, that knows this girl who had a drink at a bar in Orlando and overheard a guy, that just got fired from Disney for not doing his job, commenting on how Disney just doesn't care about people because look at how often the equipment breaks down. It is all a bunch of BS and if it were true, Disney is either the luckiest corporate deadheads in the world or they would have spent all their cash paying off guests injured by their lack of concern. Does it make the rest of you feel better if you can point an accusing finger at Disney without really knowing what is going on? If saying so makes you feel better... so be it.

 

[larryz]

Well, some parts that are susceptible to breakage maybe part of a PM program, but, surely you don't assume that it covers all the thousands of parts that are involved with operating a monorail. That would just be foolishness. Maybe we would like to think that is how a business is run, but, it is not. As far as the hate part is was a bit of hyperbole, but, for good reason. When a group of people, and it is a consistent grouping, are constantly at the ready to scream out that Disney doesn't do maintenance the moment anything happens in the form of mechanical failure, then yes it is hate or for lack of a better way of putting it and constant and persistent attempt to discredit something that they know nothing about.

Just because a few people that happen to work for Disney and have a degree or almost a degree in advanced basket weaving does not make them experts on keeping high use vehicles constantly free from problems. For one thing it is impossible. For another thing, most of the people that are positive that Disney doesn't care are not even people that work at Disney. They are people who have heard from this guy, that knows this girl who had a drink at a bar in Orlando and overheard a guy, that just got fired from Disney for not doing his job, commenting on how Disney just doesn't care about people because look at how often the equipment breaks down. It is all a bunch of BS and if it were true, Disney is either the luckiest corporate deadheads in the world or they would have spent all their cash paying off guests injured by their lack of concern. Does it make the rest of you feel better if you can point an accusing finger at Disney without really knowing what is going on? If saying so makes you feel better... so be it.

C'mon -- it's the internetz, after all. What else would you expect? I love it -- you love it -- or we wouldn't be here. So I guess it makes us both feel better, eh?

 

[s8film40]

Well, some parts that are susceptible to breakage maybe part of a PM program, but, surely you don't assume that it covers all the thousands of parts that are involved with operating a monorail. That would just be foolishness. Maybe we would like to think that is how a business is run, but, it is not. As far as the hate part is was a bit of hyperbole, but, for good reason. When a group of people, and it is a consistent grouping, are constantly at the ready to scream out that Disney doesn't do maintenance the moment anything happens in the form of mechanical failure, then yes it is hate or for lack of a better way of putting it and constant and persistent attempt to discredit something that they know nothing about.

Just because a few people that happen to work for Disney and have a degree or almost a degree in advanced basket weaving does not make them experts on keeping high use vehicles constantly free from problems. For one thing it is impossible. For another thing, most of the people that are positive that Disney doesn't care are not even people that work at Disney. They are people who have heard from this guy, that knows this girl who had a drink at a bar in Orlando and overheard a guy, that just got fired from Disney for not doing his job, commenting on how Disney just doesn't care about people because look at how often the equipment breaks down. It is all a bunch of BS and if it were true, Disney is either the luckiest corporate deadheads in the world or they would have spent all their cash paying off guests injured by their lack of concern. Does it make the rest of you feel better if you can point an accusing finger at Disney without really knowing what is going on? If saying so makes you feel better... so be it.

A lot of what you say is true. These discussions come up every time some incident happens, while that incident may have nothing to do with how things are maintained. The ironic part is much of the discussion of declining maintenance is true, even if the reason bringing it up isn't valid. As someone who worked with these things, I don't have a degree in basket weaving and I'm no engineer either. As you say I wouldn't consider myself an expert on keeping these high use vehicles running, however I do know how to read the common sense signs. When the same things happen over and over again without a fix UNTIL something dangerous happens, when the actual engineers have an attitude that they don't care or that they're not getting the support they need or when you see instances of poor maintenance increasing rather than staying flat or declining then I feel comfortable stating that there are some issues. Now I'm by no means the person to say exactly what needs to change and maybe things will. Also as I said before Disney's worst is still fairly decent. It's just a shame to see minor little things that they go cheap on for such a high end product they're delivering.

 

[The_Jobu]

C'mon -- it's the internetz, after all. What else would you expect? I love it -- you love it -- or we wouldn't be here. So I guess it makes us both feel better, eh?

It's hard to imagine my day without WDWmagic. I don't know what else I'd do. I'd probably have to go be productive or something.

*shudder*

 

[flynnibus]

Well, some parts that are susceptible to breakage maybe part of a PM program, but, surely you don't assume that it covers all the thousands of parts that are involved with operating a monorail. That would just be foolishness. Maybe we would like to think that is how a business is run, but, it is not

But it is.. especially with systems like aircraft, etc. It's why all maintenance is logged, all hours and cycles are logged, and parts have documented service lifespans and products have documented servicing. In the case of aircraft, its all heavily regulated and why only licensed mechanics are able to do even basic maintenance. Now a train like the monorail isn't to the same level.. but the concept is the same. Not every part will be required to be replaced, but critical systems would be covered.. including drive train, structure, controls, etc.

'Service lifespan', 'Service Interval', are not made up words.

 

[Horizons '83]

Wow, can we just let this thread die and fade into oblivion already?

 

[Monorail_Orange]

Wow, can we just let this thread die and fade into oblivion already?

 

[Goob]

As long as Disney continues to ignore this massive problem of shoddy monorails, this thread should never die.

It's absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable that Disney chooses to ignore this big problem. People pay a premium to visit WDW and yet they continue to raise prices and nickel and dime.

 

[s8film40]

Wow, can we just let this thread die and fade into oblivion already?

Just give it a few weeks something else will happen and we'll pick up the same conversation in an all new thread.