Large Piece Falls off Monorail - Being Evacuated

[natatomic]

Disney is a corporation like any other, Their management is like most management teams where managers are promoted on the basis of connections and social intelligence rather than technical skill.

So if the manufacturer 'recommends' a part be changed every 2000 hours yet there is no LAW saying they must. They will look at the part and it LOOKS perfectly good so management will stretch the interval first to 2500 hours then 3000 then longer still. After all that 2000 hours is just a recommendation right?.

They are not evil just people who are making decisions on a financial basis because its the only thing they understand. And they don't trust the people who are paid to understand these things because they are geeks and nerds. The Animal House social hierarchy is very much alive at most American companies.

The ultimate expression of this kind of uninformed thinking was the Challenger Disaster where the shuttle was launched after a lenghty 'cold soak' so the O-rings were below the temperature they needed to be at to seal the SRB's. The engineers as a body said hell no we are below spec. Managers said get stuffed engineers this looks bad for NASA and we are go for launch. History records the result of that decision.

I can't speak for every ride, but I know on expedition Everest, each train had a tracker on it that would count every single lap it made every single day. The program was up on a flat screen TV and you could sit there and watch each train's lap number increase one by one all day long. There was a maximum number of laps each train could take (I don't remember what it is now, but it is a defined number), and the train with the highest count was usually the spare left in the barn. Once it got within close range of the target number, the train would be totally removed and sent to central shops where it was taken apart and entirely rebuilt.
And the other cool thing, IF the train ever reached that target number, the computer would NOT let that train be added to the track. It was literally impossible.
So for some rides, Disney really CAN'T go over certain amount of wear.

ETA: now that I think about it, most attractions I worked had this - I know it was on Splash and Kali as well as a few others, I just didn't go in other barns as much as Everest. But the system is called AMVS, and I totally forgot what it stands for, but it's what tracks every single vehicle.

 

[peter11435]

I can't speak for every ride, but I know on expedition Everest, each train had a tracker on it that would count every single lap it made every single day. The program was up on a flat screen TV and you could sit there and watch each train's lap number increase one by one all day long. There was a maximum number of laps each train could take (I don't remember what it is now, but it is a defined number), and the train with the highest count was usually the spare left in the barn. Once it got within close range of the target number, the train would be totally removed and sent to central shops where it was taken apart and entirely rebuilt.
And the other cool thing, IF the train ever reached that target number, the computer would NOT let that train be added to the track. It was literally impossible.
So for some rides, Disney really CAN'T go over certain amount of wear.

Most Disney attractions have this system in place.

 

[21stamps]

I can't speak for every ride, but I know on expedition Everest, each train had a tracker on it that would count every single lap it made every single day. The program was up on a flat screen TV and you could sit there and watch each train's lap number increase one by one all day long. There was a maximum number of laps each train could take (I don't remember what it is now, but it is a defined number), and the train with the highest count was usually the spare left in the barn. Once it got within close range of the target number, the train would be totally removed and sent to central shops where it was taken apart and entirely rebuilt.
And the other cool thing, IF the train ever reached that target number, the computer would NOT let that train be added to the track. It was literally impossible.
So for some rides, Disney really CAN'T go over certain amount of wear.

ETA: now that I think about it, most attractions I worked had this - I know it was on Splash and Kali as well as a few others, I just didn't go in other barns as much as Everest. But the system is called AMVS, and I totally forgot what it stands for, but it's what tracks every single vehicle.

I'm assuming that maintenance also checks the trains and tracks every morning.. is that correct?

 

[natatomic]

I'm assuming that maintenance also checks the trains and tracks every morning.. is that correct?

Yes. Maintenance has their own checks to do, then the front-line attraction cast come in and do their checklist.

And I know people on here are saying that some maintenance and cast just blow through the checklist because they don't care, or management might ignore concerns brought up by cast. All of this is true because out of 70,000 you're gonna have some bad eggs. But Disney strongly advertises the anonymous safety hotline CMs can call if there is a safety concern in the area. It's anonymous, so no fear for reporting, and from what i understand, it gets stuff looked at REAL fast. So even if someone sees something unsafe, there's no excuse to just shrug your shoulders because a manager told you to ignore it. Everyone has a responsibility to keep guests AND themselves safe.

Reading this thread you did think Disney is all, "eh, safety shmafety." Yeah, there are plenty of people who couldn't care less about safety in Disney, but those are individuals. Disney as a whole really does push for a "culture of safety."

 

[21stamps]

Yes. Maintenance has their own checks to do, then the front-line attraction cast come in and do their checklist.

And I know people on here are saying that some maintenance and cast just blow through the checklist because they don't care, or management might ignore concerns brought up by cast. All of this is true because out of 70,000 you're gonna have some bad eggs. But Disney strongly advertises the anonymous safety hotline CMs can call if there is a safety concern in the area. It's anonymous, so no fear for reporting, and from what i understand, it gets stuff looked at REAL fast. So even if someone sees something unsafe, there's no excuse to just shrug your shoulders because a manager told you to ignore it. Everyone has a responsibility to keep guests AND themselves safe.

Reading this thread you did think Disney is all, "eh, safety shmafety." Yeah, there are plenty of people who couldn't care less about safety in Disney, but those are individuals. Disney as a whole really does push for a "culture of safety."

...and luckily for us, the systems themselves have safety features built in to protect the people onboard, even if a human does miss something. Ride safety is multi faceted..for good reason!

 

[peter11435]

I'm assuming that maintenance also checks the trains and tracks every morning.. is that correct?

Correct. Maintenance performs required checks on a nightly basis along with scheduled mandatory preventive maintenance. If each nights required preventive maintenace is not completed the attraction can not open. Once the attractions cast members take over they too perform required checks. These checklists require numerous cast members and often have hundreds and in some cases thousands of checks. Depending on the attraction this process can take anywhere from 1 to three hours before park open. And as a previous poster pointed out the system does track laps for most vehicles and upon reaching their limit the ride system will not allow the vehicle to be added to the track. If a vehicle is already in use when this limit is reached the system will prevent guests from boarding, for example the vehicle may pull in to the station and the gates will not be able to be opened.

 

[21stamps]

Correct. Maintenance performs required checks on a nightly basis along with scheduled mandatory preventive maintenance. If each nights required preventive maintenace is not completed the attraction can not open. Once the attractions cast members take over they too perform required checks. These checklists require numerous cast members and often have hundreds and in some cases thousands of checks. Depending on the attraction this process can take anywhere from 1 to three hours before park open. And as a previous poster pointed out the system does track laps for most vehicles and upon reaching their limit the ride system will not allow the vehicle to be added to the track. If a vehicle is already in use when this limit is reached the system will prevent guests from boarding, for example the vehicle may pull in to the station and the gates will not be able to be opened.

Synopsis- Disney has not cut safety to impress shareholders and increase profit margins.

(Which should have already been known, bc the suggestion of doing so is absolutely bat shoot crazy)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Synopsis- Disney has not cut safety to impress shareholders and increase profit margins.

Even if we conceded that they were inclined to do such a thing, which I do not concede, it doesn't even make sense from a "Disney is nothing but greedy and evil" perspective. Know what's a lot more expensive than preventative maintenance? Lawsuits. Disney doesn't have to balance safety versus profit, because a safe operation is also the most profitable.

 

[Incomudro]

I don't know, maybe spending so much time at amusement parks makes me look at this from a different point of view than a couple of people here.
I do not think that age = needs to be ended.

There are so many operating trains/subways/roller coasters/carnival style rides that have been around longer than the monorail, all are doing fine..with minor incidents.

All of this is because of safety inspections and maintenance.

Someone earlier brought up a coaster that was torn down.. 35 million dollars total, and it only lasted a few years. I don't think it was life threatening, but yes- it was rough, and several people complained about that. So, a decision was made to demolish it... and another 24 million dollars was spent on its replacement.
This ride was relatively "new", age had nothing to do with it.

I don't think being stuck on a monorail for a few minutes is a humongous deal, definitely not panic inducing.. and I don't think the piece that fell off is any proof that the monorail is unsafe.
There just doesn't seem to be valid reasoning for it's replacement anytime soon.

Coney Island's Cyclone is celebrating it's 90th year this summer.
The NYC Subway is very old, but the condition of the Subway Fleet is amazingly good.
New trains replaced the old, graffiti strewn, and non air conditioned cars of the 80's.
I never would have believed that would happen.

 

[21stamps]

Even if we conceded that they were inclined to do such a thing, which I do not concede, it doesn't even make sense from a "Disney is nothing but greedy and evil" perspective. Know what's a lot more expensive than preventative maintenance? Lawsuits. Disney doesn't have to balance safety versus profit, because a safe operation is also the most profitable.

Exactly. I mentioned that yesterday, IF ride safety was "cut" and an incident happened.. it would be much larger than a lawsuit from a few people, they could face severe penalties from the state as well. The chance of lawsuits, fines, investigations, and public image would never be worth the risk for "profit margins".

 

[Rodan75]

Even if we conceded that they were inclined to do such a thing, which I do not concede, it doesn't even make sense from a "Disney is nothing but greedy and evil" perspective. Know what's a lot more expensive than preventative maintenance? Lawsuits. Disney doesn't have to balance safety versus profit, because a safe operation is also the most profitable.

Just repeating...because it is something that most forget. Can't imagine you get bonuses for killing or maiming people, so the whole thought process falls apart.

 

[21stamps]

Coney Island's Cyclone is celebrating it's 90th year this summer.
The NYC Subway is very old, but the condition of the Subway Fleet is amazingly good.
New trains replaced the old, graffiti strewn, and non air conditioned cars of the 80's.
I never would have believed that would happen.

How long have the current monorails been around? 25 years or so?

 

[ABQ]

How long have the current monorails been around? 25 years or so?

Since 1989. So that's the piece that's telling. I agree that's is crazy to consider that WDW cut safety, but it's not crazy to believe they've cheaped out by not replacing the aging Mark VI monorails a while ago.

 

[21stamps]

Since 1989. So that's the piece that's telling. I agree that's is crazy to consider that WDW cut safety, but it's not crazy to believe they've cheaped out by not replacing the aging Mark VI monorails a while ago.

However, they did update them to a driverless system somewhat recently. I would think that if any problems were found at that time, then they wouldn't have invested so much in them.. instead they would have replaced.

Age doesn't bother me if they're safe. I don't discriminate based on age

 

[ABQ]

However, they did update them to a driverless system somewhat recently. I would think that if any problems were found at that time, then they wouldn't have invested so much in them.. instead they would have replaced.

Age doesn't bother me if they're safe. I don't discriminate based on age

The automation however, far as I know, has little to do with the age issues that are rearing themselves these days. The aroma likely due to the ancient air conditioning, the wear and tear on the interiors. Doors that often need a heavy hand from a cast member on the deck to slam shut and now the shoe or whatever they term the part that contacts the electric rail breaking off.
Sure, I love a classic car, but I won't drive it as hard as I would a brand new one and these trains need to drive harder today than they did in 89 due to more visitors. Like my old creaky bones, they cannot do today what they did 25 years ago (and not feel it the next day).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Since 1989. So that's the piece that's telling.

It's not that telling of anything. American Airlines has a couple of Boeing 757s from 1993. United Airlines has a few 767s from 1991. Southwest has 87 planes that entered service from 1992 - 1997. Delta is flying MD-88 planes that entered service as early as 1987. Major rail lines in the Northeast have comparable fleet ages. 30 years of service is nothing unusual for heavy rail and/or airplanes.

 

[ABQ]

It's not that telling of anything. American Airlines has a couple of Boeing 757s from 1993. United Airlines has a few 767s from 1991. Southwest has 87 planes that entered service from 1992 - 1997. Delta is flying MD-88 planes that entered service as early as 1987. Major rail lines in the Northeast have comparable fleet ages. 30 years of service is nothing unusual for heavy rail and/or airplanes.

Not doubting that's a good analogy, however AA (and I often get stuck on their ancient planes as New Mexico never gets the new planes coming to KABQ) however, they also have a much larger fleet and can place those old planes in maintenance hangars for a long while to have who knows what parts replaced one by one. Sure, WDW does something like that, but I'm not sure how extensive the work is. Nothing that has fallen off seems to be a major safety item, so I'm sure all the safety related stuff is handled well enough, but the creature comfort stuff, the cosmetic stuff, simply using the washing systems they have in place, those don't always seem to be done.

 

[21stamps]

Not doubting that's a good analogy, however AA (and I often get stuck on their ancient planes as New Mexico never gets the new planes coming to KABQ) however, they also have a much larger fleet and can place those old planes in maintenance hangars for a long while to have who knows what parts replaced one by one. Sure, WDW does something like that, but I'm not sure how extensive the work is. Nothing that has fallen off seems to be a major safety item, so I'm sure all the safety related stuff is handled well enough, but the creature comfort stuff, the cosmetic stuff, simply using the washing systems they have in place, those don't always seem to be done.

That's fair. I just made a comment to a park employee, a month or so ago, about how I wish a specific coaster was repainted every year. It isn't, and sometimes standing in line I really notice the cosmetic wear.. but I don't doubt the safety of the coaster itself because of cosmetics.

 

[ABQ]

That's fair. I just made a comment to a park employee, a month or so ago, about how I wish a specific coaster was repainted every year. It isn't, and sometimes standing in line I really notice the cosmetic wear.. but I don't doubt the safety of the coaster itself because of cosmetics.

Same here. Though that's the "cheap" part. I rode the green line in Boston for years, ancient crappy subway line, used to despise getting the really old trolleys in summer as it was nasty hot and humid and often filled with drunk Red Sox fans, sometimes that was me. Still, this is a transit system run by an organization that claims to lose more and more money every year, the MBTA. So, ok, if the train was dirty, I get it, as long as I get from Park Street to Riverside in one piece. However, if I'm boarding the monorail at Epcot with some tipsy gang on a hot day that just drank their way around the world, that monorail ought to be clean, comfy and efficiently operating as WDW's revenue numbers are insane compared to the MBTA. Just saying that they can afford to roll some fantastic stock, not just adequate rolling stock.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Even if we conceded that they were inclined to do such a thing, which I do not concede, it doesn't even make sense from a "Disney is nothing but greedy and evil" perspective. Know what's a lot more expensive than preventative maintenance? Lawsuits. Disney doesn't have to balance safety versus profit, because a safe operation is also the most profitable.

Exactly. I mentioned that yesterday, IF ride safety was "cut" and an incident happened.. it would be much larger than a lawsuit from a few people, they could face severe penalties from the state as well. The chance of lawsuits, fines, investigations, and public image would never be worth the risk for "profit margins".

"We have to ride these rides to failure to save money." That is Disney's own history. It has already happened before and there is nothing inherent to stop it from reoccurring.